I tried to shorten a Mauser 98 several years ago but scrapped two of them as miserable failures.

Once again the idea has cropped up in my mind as the idea of a 250 Savage in a mauser built for the short case seems to be something to try again.

Essentially this is taking an action and cutting it in half, machining-grinding away an appropriate amount (about 1/2") and rewelding it together again.

This time I'll do the action work and hire the chopping and rewelding.

Does anyone out there do this?

Jim Kobe.....do you do this?

Vapo,

There is a whole chapter devoted to this
in the GUN DIGEST BOOK OF RIFLESMITHING,
by Jack Mitchell. Very interesting read.

I too have a desire for a short mauser action, but alas, have no machining skills.

My hopes for an action along the lines of the
old GRISEL short mauser action were heightened
by a PROMISE of a new WILLIAMS action.

I've decided to send Ed LaPour my Kimber Model 89 to have it shortened. I believe the end result will be similar to the short mauser,
but with the "tail" of the model 70.

By the way, I believe Shane Thompson shortens
actions too. He posted on AR recently, I believe.

A guy by the name of Ron Lampert in Fridley MN used to do it. He would also add a square bridge to the action. He sold me the .375 H&H reamer I have today and sold me my first Shilen barrel for my 1908 Mauser that worked so beautifully.

Sadly he seems to have disappeared.......a victim of mauseritis I think.

Have them cut the first action toward the front third of the port opening and cut the second action toward the back third. Swap the back halves and weld both sets together. This gives you one short action and one extra long action.

You never know, one day you might "need" a longer mauser action.

What about the bolt?

I just got an email about this.....this is real encouraging.....but I'm laughing like mad....thanks BL

quote:

if you really decide to do it and can't find anybody we can run it back thru the shop and cut & re-weld it - BUT before you do it make sure you stick your head in a vice and squeeze until the idea goes away

Now that's encouragement.

Oh come on Vapodog, those new TIG welders make anyone an instant expert.

You can do it............

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1:
Oh come on Vapodog, those new TIG welders make anyone an instant expert.

You can do it............

Jim

The TIG welder I have....the skill to use it I don't.....It's a little like handing a dremel tool to a guy wanting to polish his rifle......some will make a beautiful part.....most will destroy it.

Ron Lampert was living up near Guthrie Minnesota that last time I spoke with him. You might call Guthrie INformation and ask for his phone number.

There is one guy that is an absolute expert on doing this work, but I don't think he does it much anymore becasue he is too busy making double rifles. His name is Butch Searcy. Maybe he could give you a bit of advice.

I have never done it, but I would suspect that it is like anything else, i.e. do it enought times and finally you would get very good at it.
So probably the best thing to do is search out a bunch of rusted to hell cheapo actions if you could get them for next to nothing, and just keep doing it until you got a couple right, and then go ahead and do it on a few of your more expensive actions. If you do it that way (on cheapo actions) you won't have that nagging fear of failure (i.e. losing money).

The biggie is to put the two halves on a mandrel to weld them in order to keep the warping to an absolute minimum.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
The biggie is to put the two halves on a mandrel to weld them in order to keep the warping to an absolute minimum.

From what I have read, it may be better to anneal the thing first, then weld, then reheat treat.

quote:

Originally posted by Leo L.:
What about the bolt?

The bolts need to be cut similiarly. Firing pins and springs need to be made.

The bolt will have to be cut, but not rewelded. One end will be turned down while the other end is bored out. The two halves are then silver soldered together with the seam under the extractor ring collar. Firing pin can be cut and welded, and the spring can be clipped. Nothing has to be done to the extractor. Annealing the action is probably a good idea, when I did mine I parted the actions off in the lathe. They will then need to be attached to a jig that holds the bottom flat (similiar to the brownells polishing block) and a threaded mandrel through the action to hold it square. Its not that hard of a job but cleanup is a bitch. Read jack mitchells "riflesmithing" book. Good Luck with it.

Chad

Off your meds tonight Steve?

Steve Fotou www.victorymolds.com I think, out of Salt Lake City, has done a couple. Made a really cute 30BR on a 98 some years back.

Rich

I am an amateur smith who takes his hard problems to a REAL gunsmith. He has suggested shortening a Mauser for .223, and lengthen another for Weatherby cartridges with the cutoff. He has done it before.

Today I asked him how much he wanted to cut one, and stretch another, if I supply the actions, and he get it functional, and I worry about appearnace. He wants $100/ pair. I am going to take him up on it.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I am an amateur smith who takes his hard problems to a REAL gunsmith. He has suggested shortening a Mauser for .223, and lengthen another for Weatherby cartridges with the cutoff. He has done it before.

Today I asked him how much he wanted to cut one, and stretch another, if I supply the actions, and he get it functional, and I worry about appearnace. He wants $100/ pair. I am going to take him up on it.

Since I've read estimates of $2000 for one I'd think there's some miscommunication here. This just can't be correct.

I just called him to verify.
He wants $100 for the rirst pair, but we re-negotiate the next pair if the first one was too much work.


I have been using him for TIG welding for 10 years. He does great lathe and mill work while he is at it, but I usually do my own mill and lathe work.

Youd better take him up on it, I wouldn't touch someone elses actions for less than $2500. He's working for about $5 per hour. He's obviously never done it before, so after the first set, be prepared for re-negotiations!

Chad

I had this one advertised in the classified section recently.Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Sooner:
Youd better take him up on it, I wouldn't touch someone elses actions for less than $2500. He's working for about $5 per hour. He's obviously never done it before, so after the first set, be prepared for re-negotiations!

Chad

lets see, 100 divided by 5 equals 20, so you are figuring about 20 hours to complete the job.
and then you are charging $2500, so 2500 divided by 20 equals $125.00 per hour for metalwork.

Do you get a lot of work at that rate??

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by Sooner:
Youd better take him up on it, I wouldn't touch someone elses actions for less than $2500. He's working for about $5 per hour. He's obviously never done it before, so after the first set, be prepared for re-negotiations!

Chad

lets see, 100 divided by 5 equals 20, so you are figuring about 20 hours to complete the job.
and then you are charging $2500, so 2500 divided by 20 equals $125.00 per hour for metalwork.

Do you get a lot of work at that rate??

Good one, 22!

Now that I've got my head out of the vice, I've decided to just buy a Interarms short Mauser action and save all of the greif associated with the cutting everything in half, Receiver, bolt, firing pin, spring, and then welding them back together again, so everything is perfectly aligned, etc, etc,...
Roy Dunlap's book on Gunsmithing has a section on doing the shortening. And, I know one guy who actually did it based on Roy's book, and it worked perfectly. He made a 22-250 out of it.
Don

As has been discussed, I made up a 'pair' of actions,a long and a short. I cut the actions at different points and welded. I think they were vz24. I used the tig. I also cut and welded the bolts but used an insert sleve and bored the bolt halves. It was quite a task.
If someone would do this far $100 I would drive the actions to his place right now. The cleanup and polishing was a bitch. I haven't made up any bottom metal for these, but someday they will be a 22 Cheetah and a 375 Weatherby. I have the Wby barrelled but that's as far as I've got.
Both were sent to Blanchard for rehardening. I was happy with their work. Mark

35404

Do you have a few photos of your work that you could show us. thanks.

Vapodog

Here you go. Some el cheapo mauser receivers for you to practice making short receivers out of.

Even you should be able to afford under $10 apiece for practice receivers. You can get 20 for $99.50, and that should be enough for you to get at least one right.

http://www.sarcoinc.com/actions.html

I dropped off two VZ24s, for one to get shorter for 6mmBR and one to use the cut out pieces to get longer 338Lapua. For $100 he would get them working. I am to do the clean up the welds. I can tell that I am also going to need work on a better spring for the short one.

I think you guys are missing the point with the hourly rate figure. It's not the hourly cost, it's how long did the gunsmith prefect the process you want preformed. Thing like building the fixtures and tools necessary to shorten an action. To getting the process down. Do you want to hire a doctor who has no experiance with a knife? Sometimes you guys want thing done on the cheap, and often you get what you pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark_Stratton:
I think you guys are missing the point with the hourly rate figure. It's not the hourly cost, it's how long did the gunsmith prefect the process you want preformed. Thing like building the fixtures and tools necessary to shorten an action. To getting the process down. Do you want to hire a doctor who has no experiance with a knife? Sometimes you guys want thing done on the cheap, and often you get what you pay for.

Mark,
not to be mean, but I see this often... we call it "toolroom specs, sandcasting budget"

jeffe

quote:

"toolroom specs, sandcasting budget"

Do you mind if I borrow that? That's hillarious. I've always just used the old standby, "champagne taste with a beer budget."

Kind of like the drafting standards in Mark's book.
Data lines and construction lines of the same width, with no dimensions. Page after page of worthless drawings. One can see the tooling objects from the photo's but cannot infer the dimensions.

Like sending a gunsmith to do a designer or ME's job.

The workers in the toolroom get a drawing, a real drawing.
The guys in sandcasting pattern in hand.

In Mark's book, we got less than the sandcasters get.
We got a picture of a pattern and an amateur's drawing that has no meaning.


A couple miles from Mark's garage in Mukeltio where he made the 3-ring notebook that got my $75, is a guy who shortened two of my Mausers for $100.

No, you don't get what you pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
Kind of like the drafting standards in Mark's book.
Data lines and construction lines of the same width, with no dimensions. Page after page of worthless drawings. One can see the tooling objects from the photo's but cannot infer the dimensions.

Like sending a gunsmith to do a designer or ME's job.

The workers in the toolroom get a drawing, a real drawing.
The guys in sandcasting pattern in hand.

In Mark's book, we got less than the sandcasters get.
We got a picture of a pattern and an amateur's drawing that has no meaning.


A couple miles from Mark's garage in Mukeltio where he made the 3-ring notebook that got my $75, is a guy who shortened two of my Mausers for $100.

No, you don't get what you pay for.

I always was told that You Get What You Pay For...and You PAY For What You Get!

If you felt as though Mark’s book wasn’t worth the money why didn’t you return it and get a refund?

quote:

Originally posted by Sooner:
The bolt will have to be cut, but not rewelded. One end will be turned down while the other end is bored out. The two halves are then silver soldered together with the seam under the extractor ring collar. Firing pin can be cut and welded, and the spring can be clipped. Nothing has to be done to the extractor. Annealing the action is probably a good idea, when I did mine I parted the actions off in the lathe. They will then need to be attached to a jig that holds the bottom flat (similiar to the brownells polishing block) and a threaded mandrel through the action to hold it square. Its not that hard of a job but cleanup is a bitch. Read jack mitchells "riflesmithing" book. Good Luck with it.

Chad

What sort of tool bit did you use to part a receiver off in your lathe?

Rusty,
feel free!!

Rick,
i agree.. my dad says "you get what you pay for, IF you are lucky!""

jeffe

Or,

As I've always heard, don't expect much and you won't get disappointed.

quote:

What sort of tool bit did you use to part a receiver off in your lathe?

Rick I am not being smart so don't take it that way but you actually use what is known as a parting tool.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:

quote:

What sort of tool bit did you use to part a receiver off in your lathe?

Rick I am not being smart so don't take it that way but you actually use what is known as a parting tool.

Okay, so how do you mount the receiver in the lathe so the end you are cutting off doesn’t flop all over the place...and how do you keep from beating the parting tool apart with such a huge uneven interrupted cut??????

Could you take a mauser holding fixture like Brownells sells, put a shallow slot in it where the parting tool will pass, cinch down the receiver and then cut it through with the tool?

If that wouldn't hold things rigidly enough you could also put some thin padding material on the top of the front and rear receiver rings, and pass a piece of metal strapping over each end of the receiver. Reef the strapping down, and nothing is going any where.

A more elegant solution would be to fabricate a "T" shaped piece to go in the action to the sides of where the cut(s) will occur. Those would fit over the receiver rails, and then would be screwed down onto the holding fixture.

Now the reciever is held securely front and back, but the parting tool has enough room to cut on through the reciever. Those "T" pieces should be easy to make.

Easy, peasy, puddin 'n pie.

LD

tnekkcc, in all seriousnees, I'm sorry you didn't like the book. Yours is the second compliant I've had over 500 copies that have sold. The first was a complaint about the packaging. I guess you can't please everyone.

I've got very good reviews from MACHINIST WORKSHOP and a PREICION SHOOTING writter called a few months ago after writtng his review, he gave it a 4 1/2 STARS out of 5. People are ordering copies to be sent to friends in the trade. I'm sending copies all over the world, someone must like it.

Perhaps your gunsmithing friend should write a book and show us how action shortening should be done. I haven't read a good chapter on the subject since Jack Mitchell's book on Riflesmithing back in the 80's.

As a 25yr professional weldor, that job on the action shown sure looks like a piss poor finished weld to me.

How you gonna clean up those welds when there's so much of it below the surface?????
Should have been built up where every bit of it was above surface all around.

As this isn't, you'd better just junk it. It's weak and dangerous, unless you intend to weld another pass over top of it to provide material enough to dress down.

What's the machined? area on the opposite side? any purpose for that?
George