The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing After many years of forced silence--Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Many here will remember me. I'm sorry for the absence but work demanded it. On Oct. 20th CNBC will start a special called "Remington Under Fire". It's likely to cause a national, if not world-wide, discussion of a subject I've been very well acquainted with for the last 17 years. I have published a document called 'Remington-Walker Explanation" for gunsmiths and advanced amateurs with the ability to analyze a simple lever mechanism so that they can answer the questions sure to come from the press and the public. Saeed has read and OKed the publication of it here. I welcome drawings or good photos to illustrate. I don't have them. All I ask is that the MECHANICS of the subject be examined, cross-examined, analyzed, and a critical review of it be taken. After the showing on TV, I can probably answer more questions. For now I'd like to stay out of trouble and let the document written and posted speak for itself. Thank You all. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | ||
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Welcome back, Jack! I hope your health is good... MKane160 P.S. Where is the document? You can always make more money, you can never make more time...........LLYWD. Have you signed your donor card yet? | |||
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Hi Jack, I gave your ~ GPS coordinates to any pilots I know that fly down your way. Told them to give you a medium strength "buzz job" to let you know the outside world says hello. How often does the mule train come up from Jackpot with supplies?  | |||
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I'm living my dream in good health, MKane. The new occupants of that particular hide-a-way will be thrilled by the low passes, LD. Supplies now come over the California Trail near the Silent City of Rocks. Scare West turns on their landing lights two miles south of me heading into TWF. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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Good to see your reappearance, I hope you resume contributions. Enjoy the Magic Valley RogerR | |||
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 It is a darn shame you still don't know what you are blowharding about. Doesn't surprise me at all. | |||
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Jack, great to see you back. Your knowledge is something that should be shared, many of us can benefit from it. | |||
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If you can't say something nice, why say anything at all? I would like to say: Jack, I have sure enjoyed looking at your website over the years. Lots of great information on gunsmithing. Thank you. | |||
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I will put Jack's knowledge up against yours any day. Are you still employed by Remington? Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Welcome back jack, still have some of your how to's filed away for reference. I hope to see more contributions. Red | |||
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Welcome back Jack! As you can see, some things never change. Assholes still stink. | |||
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To those of us who don't know, what will the 'attack' on Remington be about? | |||
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I have always enjoyed the wealth of information in your posts. Glad to see you back. | |||
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Good to hear from you Jack. | |||
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It is the story of a cover-up lasting more than 60 years that has killed several people and crippled even more. From what I know by being a part of it, I feel it's a fair treatment of a very important subject that's been in germination for 15 years. The 'secret' is about to be exposed and gun owners NEED to have the correct information. It's posted - HERE Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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That is just your opinion. Ask the original designer. He is the real expert on this trigger. | |||
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After many years of forced silence? What do you mean by that, if I may ask? Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Yep. And in 1947 he wrote a memo on how to fix it. Watch the special and learn a lot. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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It is TV, intended to make someone some money. | |||
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Does that mean it can't tell a true story? Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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Is any of the information coming from a registered professional mechanical engineer? | |||
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Thank you for your effort to enlighten. I hope this will lead to added postings as they were always very interesting. Frank | |||
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Yes it is. There has been a PE involved since a about 1968. I'm pretty sure his more technical explanation is still a protected document, but I'll find out. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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How many stations did you shop this to before finding one that would take it? Did you try the Outdoor channel, Sportsman channel or one of those? I suppose the station who employs the likes of Chris Mattews and Keith Olbermann will do a fair job on a gun related topic. Luckily it's CNBC so not many will see it.  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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No one but Remington is more nervous about what CNBC is showing than me. They asked me, I answered their rather pointed questions, but I know who else they asked, too. I think it'll be interesting. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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You seem to be saying that only the designer/inventor is qualified? Or perhaps you must be a licensed and registered professional engineer? Otherwise you want to discount all knowledge? Seems kind of narrow minded. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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I only trust nuke certified PEs (and whatever I read on the internet). ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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I make a living reviewing mechanical designs. At this distance I would normally trust only someone that has a professional license to lose over incompetent testimony. Anyone can have an opinion. Anyone can jack their jaws about a design and never know the testing that went into proving the design works as required. I would ask 1.How many million M700 triggers have been made? 2. How many have killed people? 3. How does that compare to other designs? 4. How many of the deaths were really due to carelessness? 5. What original testing was done to prove the triggers were safe? Was the testing reasonable considering the use of this trigger? 6. Has the legal environment changed since this trigger was designed? 7. How many people are looking to make money off of this issue? 8. What are motives of the media? 9. what other designs compare to this trigger? 10. What other trigger is considered fool proof? | |||
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Jack, Thanks for the info. Good to have you back. You have a PM. | |||
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SR-4759-- All ten questions are part of the record and could really surprise you. CNBC has the answers. I don't know if that's part of the program or not. If the results are identical, is a two part mechanism more reliable than a three? Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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All of the above seems reasonable. However there is no "testimony" talking place here on AR. That being the case I fail to see how having initials appended after your name somehow makes your "testimony" fail safe or more valid. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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The legal expectation is that a firearm should never fire without the trigger being pulled and that no firearm should be capable of firing with the manual safety engaged. A gun is closer to an airplane in a liability sense than a bicycle. A bike rider usually is the only one hurt in an accident. A plane can get pilot, passengers and people on the ground. Your 'circle of liability' is about six mile across with most center-fire rifles. Inside that area there is no 'safe' direction to point a gun that could go off without your control because a safe backstop (determined by the shooter) is the only safe place for the bullet to land. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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Jack, Can you clarify is it "several killed" per your post above which would typically me more than four (4) or is it "dozens" which means at least 24 per CNBC because those are pretty big differences. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike- I don't know the answer. I know of six, but I've heard it said it could be dozens. Many accident reports say "30-06", but the circumstances are all too familiar. I don't think anyone can say for sure. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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How were you forced into silence? That piques my curiosity... Rich | |||
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I am assuming the plaintiff attorneys that have retained him as an expert did to avoid him upsetting their multimillion dollar class action apple cart. From the following, it appears he has been coached well.
NO safe direction to point a gun? Really? Ah, and now 'well known' "circle of liability"! Nice soundbite. Is it yours or are quoting someone else?  ETA A google search for the term "circle of liability" doesn't have any hits associated with the Remington 700 on the first few pages. Be interesting to see if the term is used in the PMSNBC special and if it is picked up by the media. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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No design is foolproof. I've seen literally every design fail this one. Usually as a result of poor maintenance, or, Bubba.
You said it yourself. The safety is not the problem. The fact that the Walker safety physically lifts the sear safety cam up and off the connector makes this one of the best design for insuring the gun will not fire with the safety engaged. My words.
Well, there is the ground. Perhaps the best backstop known to man. There is no excuse when it comes to muzzle control. If a gun accidentally goes off and it is not aimed at anything, then it won't hit anything. How's that for safety? I don't find any design flaws with the Remington Walker trigger. And I've been involved with these for over 30 years. It would have been more years but I am not that old yet. The fact of the matter is this, when properly maintained, adjusted and not bubba'd, these are one of the finest triggers out and about. Can a bad trigger slip past the inspectors???
_______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Duckear- You're right. "Circle of liability" does sound too legalese. It sounded good when I made it up. Call it the circle of responsibility because if you cause damage you are responsible for it. So-far the furthest injury from an AD that I know of is less than a hundred yards, but near misses are legend. Several injuries were the result of ricochets or deflections so the 'point of safety' is wider than just the bore line. It's the nature of the energy expended. The guy in Texas that shot the woman with a 50BMG ricochet last month is an example. That was over a mile away from his 'range'. What we must guard against is the perception of not caring about the public. Next week the public will know about a bunch of guns that act like fireworks instead of firearms and the concern level is bound to go up. My goal is to block legislation with education. It seems no one has yet taken the challenge of seeing for themselves the unvarnished truth, so maybe it wasn't such a good idea. Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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Westpac-- Tell me how a S&W revolver shoots without the trigger being pulled. Colt? Ruger? Iver Johnson of 1898?? True. The 'state of the art' has not carried over to rifles until very recently, but have been the standard in DA revolvers since 1898 and SAs since 1973. I named the two pertinent defects applicable to all firearms. I've testified for 17 years that the Remington M700 cannot fire with the safety engaged. That's not the fault with it. Please read and understand the Explanation document. Its verifiable in every detail. Watch CNBC for the supporting evidence that its a big deal. You might want to check real close on about 25 million common fire controls, though (All Rem pump and auto 'two pins in the side' triggers.) Defeating legislation through education. There is no safe direction to point an unsafe gun. | |||
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Wow Jack, appears some people think you came back as a red-headed stepchild. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing After many years of forced silence--
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