I have a rebarreled Model 70, now in 404 Jeffery. I would like to file (or have filed if I am utterly incompetent)the rear sight for my favorite load. I have never taken a file to a rifle before (and no gunsmithing experience at all) so: what file(s) do I need? How does one proceed? Do most of you file in a V, or do you leave them flat? Etc, etc. I'm sure that for many of you this elementary stuff so please be kind in your replies!

Wink,

For express sights you need a FLAT VEE file that I can't find. I think it is a 140 degree angle.

I have read here that the European style is just to file it flat and use the white line to line it up. I have been practicing with that and it seems to work OK for me.

The problem is that if you file it flat to correct elevation you can never add the VEE later.

I would certainly like to know where to get the FLAT VEE file, since if I try that and don't like it I can always go to the flat style.

Maybe one of the gunsmiths or experienced amateurs will provide the file info, as well as the technique, for doing this.

While I'm very tempted to say, "send it off to the smith", you'll never learn anything if somebody else does all the work. Soooo....

look here first

Then if you have any more questions it will be easier as you will have some additional background knowledge.

i forgot where i saw it, but there is a specific "sight file" being sold either on brownells, midway, or necg...

jeffe

I use a triangle file. Take a small piece of steel and practice pushing the file and making it cut. when you are comfortable with your fileing skills take your rifle and your file and then rest of your shooting equipment to the range. Set up a target at 50 yds. set your rifle up and take the bolt out look thru the bore and line the bore up with the center of the target. This will give you a general idea of where the sights are aiming in relation to the bore. take few strokes with the file just to get the v started. You will be doing this with the rifle all bagged in so it's stable enough to file on, and or get a friend to help hold the rifle while you file, be carefull and take steady and deliblerate file strokes. Once you have the starting v created, set the windage by makeing adjustments and looking and compareing what you see by looking thru the bore once you get it lined up for windage and you'll already have a v in there, put your muffs and glasses on and get in behind it and aim and fire a shot. Go and look at the bullet hole if it's just an inch or 2 high you can easily file some more to get it down to dead on to 1/2 inch high. IF it is hitting low you'll have to go to a higher rear sight or a lower front sight. Or if it's hitting real high 3.5 inches or more then install a taller front or a lower rear. The NECG front load, front sight blades make major elevation changes quick and easy. by what you see from your first shot make your sight adjustments and fire again. 1/2 to one inch high is about right at 50 yds. make sure everything is tight and shoot several groups do some off hand shots with it too. If it's hitting the way you want it to then you're finished.
Timan

I just went through Cooper hand tools selection of files (hundreds) and can't find what you are looking for conserning an angled file. That doesn't mean it's not out "there", but...

The one thing Cooper does have is called a Barrette File, the problem is its "safe" on the beveled sides. Perhaps if you called them they may know of a Barrette File that cuts on the beveled sides and is safe on the flat side.

If I had to do the job with a file I'd try one of these.

However I'm lucky and use a 3/64 carbide ball endmill in a milling machine to do it.

Nothing wrong with a file however.

FIling in an express sight has to be done in the field at a rifle range. How would you do it with a milling machine? When filing in, the correct file to use is one with a safe edge. With another, it would be too easy to change your windage setting by filing both sides of the sight. You should be adjusting both the windage and elevation when doing so. Do a little at a time and fire a few shots after each adjustment.

Jim,

Thanks for the response. I was hoping to get a pro to speak up.

My NECG rear sight has a white vertical line on the center of the rear face. It makes it look like it was designed to be drifted for windage, but the idea of drifting that long (3 blade) sight dovetailed into the quarter rib scares the Hell out of me. I am afraid I would cock it and loosen the dovetails.

I don't see the perfect answer, and I sure would appreciate some advice!

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G
My NECG rear sight has a white vertical line on the center of the rear face. It makes it look like it was designed to be drifted for windage, but the idea of drifting that long (3 blade) sight dovetailed into the quarter rib scares the Hell out of me. I am afraid I would cock it and loosen the dovetails.

Don, you shouldn't drift that type of sight, you would want to use a screw type sight pusher to move it so as to avoid damaging the precision dovetail in the quarter rib. To distribute the force equally along the entire length of the sight, you would place something like a piece of 1/4 inch bar stock between the threaded ram and the sight. Be sure to protect the sight and the quarter rib from damage by placing a piece of thin, cardboard stock (business card), or, masking tape between the ram and anvil of the sight pusher.

Thanks, malm.

I figured I'd use my small toolmaker's vice with appropriate spacers (I was thinking aluminum since I have scraps readily available.) I have not found a practical purpose-built tool that would handle that long rear sight. It still scares the Hell out of me.

Does Timan's and Bill's advice to use a safe file to cut one side at a time apply to this type of rear sight where you want a VEE at a definite center? At least I can find that type of file!

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
Does Timan's and Bill's advice to use a safe file to cut one side at a time apply to this type of rear sight where you want a VEE at a definite center? At least I can find that type of file!

If you need to move the notch and you don't feel comfortable moving the sight itself, then yes, using a safe file would be a "safe" way to go. Brownells sells 60 and 65 degree dovetail files that only cut on one side that should work fine for this.

This is essentially how it is done on single action revolvers where all you have for a rear sight is a groove running down the center of the top strap. Sometimes you can make a very fine adjustment for windage by shaving a dab from the right or left side of the front blade. Of course you could always bend the barrel. That works too.

European sights are usually flat, with a U cut into it. English sights usually have a wide V, for the fixed blade at least.

I have found it best to acquire an extra blade. File one by hand at the range during sight in. When you have the proper height, have the other one milled neatly to the same specs.

I have done this on two different rifles...I am not saying this is the proper way, but it sure worked for me.
I get a blank rear blade with a scribed line in the center. I then use a very fine round swiss needle file to file a notch straight down the middle of the rear sight, shooting a round or two and then file a little more until I get it where I want for point of impact. That leaves me with a rear sight bladw with a fairly deep "U" shaped notch in it. I then mark where the sight is in the dovetail on the base. I take the blade back out and from the center of the bottom of the "U" notch I scribe a line from center of blade to the outer edges at an angle that looks good to me. I do this on both the rear of the rear sight and the front of the rear sight. I have even gone as far as to paint the metal that I am going to remove. Then I very, very carefully remove the metal using a file with a safe side to it. By having the line scribed on both sides I can make sure I am keeping everthing parallel or perpendicular as the case may need. This would be much easier with a small mill, but if all you have is hand tools this is a good way to do it. I believe that the classic English rifle makers used hand files also. Several older rifles I have examined don't ssem to have had the rear sight milled. Again, use patience, plenty of patience. You might also get a couple of the same rear blades so as to practice or have a back up if you make a mistake. Good luck.

I have a file I use for the wide vee found on epresss-style sights. Not exactly sure of it's degree of angle or its "properness" but it looks right to me. Its (of all things) actually for sharpening old-time, two man cross cut saws. Spent the last quarter hour searching at all my usual suppliers without luck, though I know I've just seen them in someone's catalog recently. The file is called a "cross cut" or sometimes "Great American cross cut." Nicholson still makes them but I supose there's not much demend. It is three sided with a wide, shallow "vee" on one side and a wide flat back. About 3/4" on the back and the vee maybe 1/2" per side. All sides are "cut" with a single, smooth style tooth that leaves a smooth finish. Hope this helps!

Thanks, oupa!

Don't know where my head was, here's a link to Nicholson's (Cooper Tools) page.

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_de...cfm?upc=037103024350

DUH! I still don't know where my head is - though I bet a few could guess! IT IS NOT A GREAT AMERICAN CROSSCUT!!!!! It is a CANTSAW!!!
http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_de...cfm?upc=037103013873

One of these should last you a lifetime and I've had mine 20+ years. Guess it not surprising I can't remember the name huh?

Oupa, would I be correct in assuming that it cuts at a 60° angle whatever side is up?