The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing How hard would it be to add a CLAW EXTRACTOR on a Rem 700?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I saw the claw extractor on the Mcmillan and was wondering how hard it would be to have one put on a 700? | ||
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How much money you got? John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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With minimal maintenance,the OEM Rem extractor will out perform a claw extractor. | |||
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I just tool a look at McMillan's website. Their "claw" extractor is not much different than a "Sako-style" extractor which has been retrofitted to Remington 700s for many years. It runs about $150 installed, but IMO doesn't work as well as the original Remington. The one McMillan shows on their CRF action is different but not much. I'm guessing the parts are proprietary and they probably wouldn't sell them. That CRF is nice looking, like all the McMillan products. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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Butch Searcy used to do it many years ago. I think I have a photo or two of it somewhere here. | |||
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A number of years ago a smith was advertising that he'd convert the customer's push-feed to true controlled-feed; Rems and Wins were $250 while Rugers were only $150 since they already had the claw. Apparently the smith (whose name I don't recall) used new long claw extractors with their typical rotating collars and some sort of pivoting ejector that I assume was similar to a Win pre-64. Certainly not rocket science for a talented person with a mill, really it's fairly straightforward work. I don't see his ads any more so apparently he quit advertising, may be dead or retired or went broke doing it so inexpensively. Not a very difficult conversion but IMO it would make the action MUCH MUCH LESS SAFE! The enclosed case head feature of the push-feed actions is one of their main gas-protection features and the controlled-feed alteration would remove this important gas-blocking annulus ring on one side. Like Jeff Cooper said about the double-action Colt .45 Government Model conversions, "...a questionable solution to a nonexistent problem!" Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Question: Why in Hell would anybody go to this kind of trouble when there are a vast supply of Winchester, Ruger, Mauser, Interarms, etc... out there available as donors for just a touch more than the price of a 700 action? Doesn't make sense to me. By the time you retrofit the 700, you've more than paid for a M70 action and then you can't go buy off the shelf parts to repair the "altered" 700. I mean I'm obviously not a real smart guy, but I can do simple math. Now, back in the 70's, 80's, before the M70 Classic or M77 MK II, maybe I could see a need for this. David | |||
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Ditto. Odd that you never hear of anybody taking a Winchester and grinding off the recoil lug to install a barrel washer lug, removing the claw extractor to convert to push feed, and replacing the 3 position wing safety with a sliding trigger safety. Hmmmm... I wonder why? | |||
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It's not always question of $$$$, it's a question of having something away from the crowd. If it wasn't for people wanting this "difference" the word "custom" would cease to exist. Others are happy with the run of the mill and save $$, others are not. JMHO --- John303. | |||
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Basically because it is not worth the hazzel  You know, people buying Winchester 70 with CRF, are basically traditionalists, who reject most developments. They only accept modern things as the wheel, because they found out that it was actualy invented in the antike.  | |||
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A Rem 798 would be cheeper then modifying an existing action www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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It ain't about money. Butch | |||
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I get that, and I understand that it is not just about the money. But when I look at the picture above it just screams "Winchester wanna-be". Those are not "custom" features, they are standard features... of the Winchester, Dakota, MRC, etc. What is it about that action above that truly makes it unique, (besides the tubular receiver) or captures the essence of its Remington heritage? Seems kinda like buying a vintage Mustang and spending a bunch of money to make it look like a Camaro... | |||
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It is probably more accurate and has a faster lock time. This is my Remington at one stage of its life. It has a recoil lug like the Searcy above.  I can build a Remington to look like a Mauchester, cheaper, quicker, and shoots better. Butch | |||
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All questions of why aside, I had it done to a Win 70 PF by Dennis Olson. I wanted to see what he would come up with more than anything else. He charged $365 for the conversion and, yes I know, I could have gotten a Mark X or something else for the money. I have something unique and it is smooth as can be. Now, I just have to replace that ugly post-64 bolt shroud. "I ask, sir, what is the Militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them" - George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment during the Virginia convention to ratify the Constitution | |||
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Well in that case all bets are off. Then it comes down to how bad do you want it. That's just gotta chap the hides of those that feel push feed is the be all end all of feed systems www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Why do it? Stronger action, better trigger and better gas handling to name 3, or just to have something different. BTW we were converting Mausers & Arisakas to 700 recoil lugs back in the '60s for better accuracy. A 6.5 Arisaka action with a 700 recoil lug and a 1/2-round stiffener plate proved to be a good accuracy platform (except for the Timney trigger, G) back in the dark ages. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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About 35 or 40 years ago a gunsmith named Bob Polk (Poulk ???) set up a shop in central B.C. He had a Remington 721 action that he had fitted a P17 bolt to. Which is to say, it ran and turned in the bare receiver. Have no idea if he ever built something on it as his stay was short lived and he went to parts unknown. I did get him to profile a M52C target barrel to sporter contours and he did a nice job. Also altered the bolt and set the receiver up for Buehler bases. Often wondered where he went. stocker | |||
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When it was impossible to get left-handed control feed action Butch must have been the only game in town. Things are a little easier now. | |||
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I completely disagree...While at Gander Mountain in WI, we replaced f...up 700 extractors at least two a week. NEVER had to replace a 98 extractor...No.. in my opinion, these are about like a Chinese finger prison (might be even better if made from straw)...this is why here's such a great aftermarket demand for the SAKO type "claw" extractor. It's a rotating extractor but at least 100 times more reliable then the Chinese finger prison. The down side! Apparently Remington will not honor any warranty claims if this retrofit has been performed. | |||
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I have never quite understood this...I spent 10 years as a reserve Firearms Instructor for a major Sheriff's Department in California and I don't think I ever sawed a failed extractor on a Remington 700 PSS. Also, even though I have searched the net; I have never seen an article or a web page from any military or police source complaining about Remington 700 extractors failing and clearly those rifles get shot a helluva lot more than any sporting arm. So I just don't understand all the concern or supposed failures. It actually seems kinda funny when you compare it to the Beretta incident...IIRC, the 92F got a bad rap years back because a slide failed after some brutal service testing and everybody recognized for what it was...failure under extreme conditions likely to never occur in any kinda of normal or even law enforcement use. I can find no military tests that say the Remington extractors suck...and everybody seems to think they should be replaced. Recognize, I am not an engineer or a gunsmith...I am just looking at it from the outside. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I completely disagree...While at Gander Mountain in WI, we replaced f...up 700 extractors at least two a week. NEVER had to replace a 98 extractor...No.. in my opinion, these are about like a Chinese finger prison (might be even better if made from straw)...this is why here's such a great aftermarket demand for the SAKO type "claw" extractor. It's a rotating extractor but at least 100 times more reliable then the Chinese finger prison. End of Quote. Duane, I don't know what a Chinese finger prison is, but I do know what a "finger-nail extractor" looks like. And that is a Remington M-7.... extractor!!!!!!!! One of the strongest actions on the market, and it can't even extract Remington brass that has been subjected to a little pressure, IE. sticky case. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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Mike_Dettore, Police, swat teams, military, yahde, yahde, don't reload to the higher end of the spectrum. They simply accept what they are told is the velocity (if they even give a crap) and accept it as gospel truth,,,,,,, just like many here on the AR Forum. Their pressures are WAY under! If you use soft brass and get a pressure spike, like in August in Texas with a load on the Top end, and you have a slightly rough Reminton 700 chamber, the fingernail extractor will SLIP off the rim and leave the case in the chamber. I HAVE HAD IT HAPPEN MORE THAN ONCE! Now if you are hunting rabbits, deer, or squirrels then it is no problem. But if you are hunting Dangerous Game or out in the "booneys" on a LIFETIME hunt and this happens, WHAT would You Think???? "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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If you just want that, buy a Savage. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Well...no Rae...police swat teams do give a crap as they don't get to sight in before a "hunt". They have to be able to make a precision cold bore shot. So they do need to know velocity and they generally buy huge lots of match ammo for just that reason and they do test for consistent velocity. Now with respect to reloading of course not...but then again...doesn't seem like a real good argument to say that extractor sucks cause it wont extract my hot rounds in hot weather. I think when someone is trying to get an extra 25-50 fps out of case that was not designed for the extra 25 or 50 fps using brass that may have been loaded multiple times with hot charges they are asking for a problem. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have gunsmithed everything from DGR to cleaning 22s and most things in between. As someone else has said, Rem extractors are fine with normal pressures, in clean smooth chambers, in non-dangerous situations. I personally have installed Sako style extractors even on varmit guns because shooters were having failures to eject due to poor extractor tensions and, high pressure loads sticking in guns. Not to mention on big game rifles that are used in Alaska and other harsh conditions. It is simply to small and too weak to depend on with the buck of a lifetime on the line or with a charging buffalo. I personally dont have a problem with push feed rifles, but Sako or M16 style extractors are a MUST! Curtis | |||
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Mike, I'm laughing my but off about what you have learned here on AR!! Too funny. Curtis | |||
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So under this thought process is it worthwhile to replace the trigger and safety on a Rem? All of this is optional but not necesarrily a bad idea. Why not update something you already own to make it more usefull for YOUR specifc needs. this isnt a case of polishing a turd before someone makes that argument. I had an old heavy barreled 375 HH from the custom shop that I bought off a guy for $500. I put another $250 into it to change to a timney trigger and a 3 position safety. I dont feel the need to make it a CRF vs push feed but can and still be about even for what I would have to replace the rifle for. In my mind I just get more miles out of an older already owned rifle. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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Hey I got a question...jus how much biggers is a mauser extractor than Remington 700 extractor... and I am talking about the part that actually hooks in to the rim...from a thickness standpoint that is somewhat fixed by the rim. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike Smith, I can't tell if you are speaking in Jest or serious? I am speaking to you seriously. Remington has never had a safety. If you lighten the trigger to anything near 3 pounds or less AND have any oil/grit enter into it, the sear has been known to drop the firing pin. There have been MANY lawsuits to attest to this fact. (GOOGLE IT) Yes, Remington has taken measures to correct this since somewhere in the late '90s early 2000s, I believe. I have had the firing pin drop several times myself - without my finger on the trigger. Are Remingtons M-700 bad rifles? Of coursre not, they just need to be handled differently. They fill their niche just like Winchesters fill theirs - seriouse hunters. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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I like the remington action and think it is great for many things. Just a matter of preferance for me; I prefer the Sako extractor as an option on these guns. Most people will never have a problem with the factory extractor, but some people will. It is a potential weak point and all guns have them. If they didn't I wouldnt be able to make my living fixing them! I could list many complaints about Win, Ruger, CZ, whatever. But since i have the luxury of doing what i do, get to see all these things and then make recomendations on what i see. They are not all necessary, just "ideal" in my opinion. Curtis | |||
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How does that saying go about better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool...then open it and remove all doubt. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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If a person is going to undertake working on his own trigger, he should take responsibility for his actions. At the very least he should know what he's doing and he should know the idiosyncrasies of the particular trigger before tampering with it. Duane, the reason there is such a demand for the Sako type extractor's isn't because the Remington factory extractor is a bad design, it is because of the internet and all the bullshit that get's passed around. And I think the correct term is "Chinese handcuffs"  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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I don't know about the Army, but the Marine Corps handloads all their Rem 700 ammo. And I don't believe they are worried in the least about pressures or the factory extractor. Or their bolt handles for that matter. Just in case that comes up in this discussion. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Rae59, I was both making a serious point as well as tongue in cheek. I do have an old Rem and did replace the trigger and safety. My point wasnt to muddy the waters with the safety problems. It was to show that an older rifle you already own can be improved and made more usefull for an economical price. That could include changing to a Sako type extractor if one was inclined. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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Hello Wespac, People have been installing Sako style extractors on Remington bolt guns since the 1970's. Well before Al Gore invented the internet.  The problem with Remington's safety/trigger dates back the previous generation of Rem. bolt guns, the M-721 which I believe was manufactured from 1948 to 1962. The problem did not come to a head until the late 1980's with a multitude of lawsuits. I Personally have experienced firing pin drops on both a M-721 and a M-700. It should be mentioned that both triggers were lightened by a VERY competant gunsmith. Both were set at 3 pounds.On another subject Wespac, do not the snipers in the military go into the field with a spotter, who is carrying the usuall array of weaponry?? (M-4, M-14, etc.) Just a asking a question. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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Rae, it's SOP for any tactical shooter to have a spotter/wingman/teammate to watch his back as well as spot for the shot. The spotter is typically armed with a high-cap high-RPM weapon in case of close-range encounters with multiple baddies. Long ago and far away it wasn't unknown for even some shooters to also be armed with a cut-down M2 Carbine for such instances, the cut-down M2 was light & compact. Firing a full magazine while beating feet was sometimes known as a 'ticket across the street'. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Remington triggers won't give trouble IF the operator does 2 things: Don't use oil in the trigger mechanism, use graphite or similar. Oil or WD-40 will attract dust & grit and will gum up the works in cold weather. Any good smith should know this and should caution his customers, it's been publicized many times. And keep it clean. Like my old shop instructor Bill Prator used to say, "You hafta be smarter than the machine in order to operate it!" Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Two things One: BS has been slung in Gun shops for decades before the internet. Two: Our saying was "you need to be 10% smarter then what you are working on" The other thong about oil on a trigger. The only thing I put oil on is the pins that the part pivot on and only a single drop. All excess is wiped up. Zero oil on sear and cocking piece www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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If you have seen a Sako extractor blow out of the raceway of a Remington, you better have your liability insurance paid up. You're gonna need it. This ain't heresay either. Butch | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing How hard would it be to add a CLAW EXTRACTOR on a Rem 700?
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