Years ago evidently H and H built Magnum 98 actions [when it couldn't get hold of them] by lengthening a standard length 98 action ,and someone in the U.S built about a dozen this way some years ago .
Doing searches you can find info on shortening an action ,98s ,P14 ,but not on lengthening them.
How hard would it be to do this ? e.g if you had two Mark X actions ? a case of finding the right gunsmith to do it ,any thoughts ?
Thanks RC

Easy. Here's how:
Cut them apart. . One short piece and one long piece.
Bolt and firing pin too.
TIG them back together; You end up with one long one and one short one.
Hard part is keeping it all straight. You won't need any heat treatment.
Ok, easy, but tedious work.

I tried it and failed, not so easy to control the excess carbon that wants to congeal into black wormholes while welding or pinholes.
I ended up carbide burring them out only to have another larger one form.

But I did learn a lot and am always looking for another junker to try again.
Anyone got one??

It might be easier on a Mark X because they are made from a thru hardening alloy and not case hardened mild/med steel.
Probably should pre and post heat the weld zone.

Can't imagine you are going to save any $$$ if you have to pay a smith to do this over just buying the action length you want.

Right; you would have to anneal them first and then re case them afterwards; like welding demilled M1s.
I, personally, do not have time for it. Not worth the effort.
If anyone wants to try it, I have two less than perfect receivers for $50 each.

One gunsmith I mentored under has done this successfully. I have not personally done it myself but observed him take two military 98 Mausers, shorten one and lengthen the other. Lots and lots of clean up but no welding failures. Very time consuming. You have to stock them from a blank of course.

step one
figure out an adjustable fixture for the actions!!!!!

i have done this with 2 actions and 3 bolts nd bottom metals .. why three bolts? it's easier to get the long one right that way..


Tom is right, TIG is the answer -- and when TIGing the actions, make a "chamber" .. i used a shoe box, to make a purged (well, semi-purged) chamber to weld the actions....

i used turkish actions, back when they were 3 for $100 ...

it works, cleaning up the welds is a mild hassle, getting the bolts right was an issue, hardest part was the firing pins ..

very hard way to +/- 1/2 "

Here is a better idea; take a P14 Enfield and make it look like a Mauser; that I have done. Tang, bolt stop, bridge, weld up safety hole and use a 3 position. I thought about sleeving the ring to 1.4 inch, like a band on a Parrot Rifle.
In fact, I think I will sell that one.

I believe Dunlap shortened Model 70 actions using basically the same process. I do not have his book on gunsmithing available at the moment but the process may have been detailed in his book.

quote:

Originally posted by gbs:
I believe Dunlap shortened Model 70 actions using basically the same process. I do not have his book on gunsmithing available at the moment but the process may have been detailed in his book.

It was a mauser, using oxy/acetylene and not very detailed with poor photography/printing by today's standards.

There is a very detailed article on shortening a Model 70 in "The Gun Digest Book of Riflesmithing" by Jack Mitchell. Much more info than Dunlap's book.

Yes and huge difference in welding on Model 70 steel and a Mauser.

Short one

Shortening 98 Mauser Actions

Steve Nelson is a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild and pretty talented. He has written an excellent article in two installments for the Guild magazine 'Gunmaker'. It is in issue #123 and #127. Titled 'A Homemade Kurtz Mauser". These articles will save you from a lot of mistakes and lost time.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i have done this with 2 actions and 3 bolts nd bottom metals .. why three bolts? it's easier to get the long one right that way..

Tom is right, TIG is the answer -- and when TIGing the actions, make a "chamber" .. i used a shoe box, to make a purged (well, semi-purged) chamber to weld the actions....

i used turkish actions, back when they were 3 for $100 ...

it works, cleaning up the welds is a mild hassle, getting the bolts right was an issue, hardest part was the firing pins ..

very hard way to +/- 1/2 "

Too bad you didn't take lots of pics and put a good write up in this forum, because it sadly lacks members actually doing any gunsmithing and posting any gunsmithing.

Posts of 'Who can do gunsmithing for me?' we have an overabundance of.

Thankyou for the replies ! [btw thats a nice shortened 98] I thought it might be a less expensive option ,with the high cost of Magnum 98 actions ,which cost even more if you need to import them yourself, exchange rate /tax/importer fees etc ,7 or 8 thousand .
A bit like a double ,You want one, then you pay the $$$ .
If Zastava could make a true Magnum 98 ,they'd be on a winner ,but the same old excuses ,yeah but have to re-tool etc and the cost of investment etc ...

How does the length of a Magnum M98 compare to a Post 63 M70.

I made a magnum length bolt for a magnum receiver where the bolt was missing/lost.

I made my cuts between the 3rd back up lug and the back of the guide rib.
After cutting the 1st bolt in two I took the back part of that bolt, set it up in my 2axis and circle interpolated a .600 diameter on it. Next, I took the 2nd bolt and cut it in the same area in general but made sure it was on the long side, this gives a little extra material to " play" with.
With the second bolt cut in two I took the front part and bored the back of it out to .5995, this offers just a press fit of the two parts. At which point I pressed the two together for an overall measurement to check the calculated overall length dimension required for the complete bolt.
With the two halves press fit together allowed me to try the bolt in the receiver and check it for proper fit.
Once comfortable with what I saw in the way it fit I used my tig welder to run a bead around the bolt body.
Cleanup was done in the lathe, pressing the two halves together is key to getting a bolt in the end with very little run out and very good alignment. I didn't see any reasons to monkey around with annealing the hardening the parts, it welded fine no issues no pits.
Good bolt. I think I had 6 hours in the job. Not bad.

Damn Stuart, another crafty solution. That’s awesome.

I might just machine the halves to slip into one another for .5 inch, pin the two halves together like a Savage and solder them.
Anyway, for a factory to do this, it would never make any money; back to the lesson about Capitalism and profit.
And for a gunsmith to make one from two actions, the cost would be $4000. How many of you want to pay that?
As for the question, how does a Mag Mauser compare to a new Model 70? Magnum 98s have a mag length of 3.6, and the Brevex 3.9. So, the model 70 will take 3.6; which is the length of the H&Hs.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I might just machine the halves to slip into one another for .5 inch, pin the two halves together like a Savage and solder them.
Anyway, for a factory to do this, it would never make any money; back to the lesson about Capitalism and profit.
And for a gunsmith to make one from two actions, the cost would be $4000. How many of you want to pay that?
As for the question, how does a Mag Mauser compare to a new Model 70? Magnum 98s have a mag length of 3.6, and the Brevex 3.9. So, the model 70 will take 3.6; which is the length of the H&Hs.

I was fascinated up until this point.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I might just machine the halves to slip into one another for .5 inch, pin the two halves together like a Savage and solder them.
Anyway, for a factory to do this, it would never make any money; back to the lesson about Capitalism and profit.
And for a gunsmith to make one from two actions, the cost would be $4000. How many of you want to pay that?
As for the question, how does a Mag Mauser compare to a new Model 70? Magnum 98s have a mag length of 3.6, and the Brevex 3.9. So, the model 70 will take 3.6; which is the length of the H&Hs.

The Brevex is a real long one, so Weatherby used it for 378s before the Mark V was introduced?

My website has some in progress photos of shortening a badly Bubba'd G 33-40..might be of interest to some

I like Duane how you have salvaged 2 junkers to make 1 gem.

The junkers I find are junky on both ends.
Riddled with holes and pipe wrench marks on the receiver ring, hacked away bridge with more misdrilled holes.

Doesn't leave much salvageable.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug W:
I like Duane how you have salvaged 2 junkers to make 1 gem.

The junkers I find are junky on both ends.
Riddled with holes and pipe wrench marks on the receiver ring, hacked away bridge with more misdrilled holes.

Doesn't leave much salvageable.

PIPE WRENCH? I want to say surely you’re joking, but I saw a “transitional” FN commercial action on GunBroker. I would love to have one of those, but holy sh*t, someone had gone bananas drilling holes for a side scope mount. I asked a gunsmith if it could be saved. He said no. Kind of a bummer.

$4000.00 is over the top IMO ,
A.Find a second hand Mag action
B.Buy one from Stuart
C.Buy junker actions and do a TIG welding course and do it your self [eventually you will get it right]and wont cost 4 K.....

I would do just about anything to have a long FN Commercial Mauser...except pay $4k + 2 FN actions.

quote:

Originally posted by Robertcat:
$4000.00 is over the top IMO ,

C.Buy junker actions and do a TIG welding course and do it your self [eventually you will get it right]and wont cost 4 K.....

Sounds like you have the solution, so do it!

quote:

Originally posted by Robertcat:
$4000.00 is over the top IMO ,

this is the "i don't want to do it, and the time that i could use on other projects will be lost

quote:

Originally posted by Robertcat:

A.Find a second hand Mag action

or just buy a CZ or Ruger RSM

quote:

Originally posted by Robertcat:

B.Buy one from Stuart
C.Buy junker actions and do a TIG welding course and do it your self [eventually you will get it right]and wont cost 4 K.....

i suggest this, just to get the idea of what will happen

quote:

Originally posted by Doug W:
Too bad you didn't take lots of pics and put a good write up in this forum, because it sadly lacks members actually doing any gunsmithing and posting any gunsmithing.

Posts of 'Who can do gunsmithing for me?' we have an overabundance of.

Man, I wasn't trying to do anything but try my hand at what some of the "Greats" have done.. educating me, with no intention that it would mean anything to anyone else

quote:

this is the "i don't want to do it, and the time that i could use on other projects will be lost

Exactly!
Ok, the price is now $2000. How many will pay that? At $100 an hour, that is only 20 hours.
My point is that, for hand work like this, everyone wants one, but no one wants to pay for it.
Those that have done such things, make $10 an hour on them. I know.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Man, I wasn't trying to do anything but try my hand at what some of the "Greats" have done.. educating me, with no intention that it would mean anything to anyone else

Oh I know, but whether success/failure it would have added to readily available knowledge on the subject.

The bulk of this gunsmithing forum topics are "I need a gunsmith."
"I need a part."
or "Let me show you what someone else created."

It really needs more gunsmithing.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:

Exactly!
Ok, the price is now $2000. How many will pay that? At $100 an hour, that is only 20 hours.

No one.

Too many that have no time, tools or talent want to complain about the labor cost of those that do.

Whilst you are lengthening / shortening mauser actions, please can somebody show how you would reverse the bolt that it works for a left hander. Yes feed port will be on the right hand side, but in many ways thats perfect, as it allows easy feeding when prone and you see the new cartridges being loaded when in rapid fire mode.

Prone? You must be a very tough guy to shoot the heavy magnums from the prone position.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Whilst you are lengthening / shortening mauser actions, please can somebody show how you would reverse the bolt that it works for a left hander. Yes feed port will be on the right hand side, but in many ways thats perfect, as it allows easy feeding when prone and you see the new cartridges being loaded when in rapid fire mode.

Brings back memories of a 98 I saw converted to L hand bolt. What a piece of work...Gears were cut on the existing bolt stub, then gears on the new bolt handle. A housing was welded to the bolt body with the suitable axle to hold everything in place. Pretty Fugly..but it WAS a conversion!

There’s a stretched 1909 trigger guard with 8.25” screw spacing on eBay. It’s just waiting for a project like this.

Why and for what would someone lengthen a pre 64 mod. 70?? are they not mag size actions to start with?

I’m surprised in a world where we have like 100 Rem 700 super clones that we don’t have 1-2 Win 70 super clones and a couple 98 super clones.

When I say super clone, I mean machined from bar stock with tight enough tolerances that you can mail order barrels and triggers.

I would think those would dominate the standard range custom hunting rifle market.

I’m not sure about the tolerances, but the Prechtl Mauser is made from bar stock. Not cheap, either.

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
I’m not sure about the tolerances, but the Prechtl Mauser is made from bar stock. Not cheap, either.

Mayfair and FZH are excellent as well. They are near 4K

1: No, pre 64 Model 70s are not mag size; they are 30-06 size and needed to be opened up to handle long mags. That was one of the design features of the post 64 ones; all are long enough for H&H mags.
2. Mr Nathan; I explained why you will never see a mag 98 made from bar stock for less than $4000; called supply and demand. Demand will never support the efficiencies of mass production. IE, there are 6 guys in the US who would buy such a product; the rest of us do not need or want one.