Matt,

How would you compare/rate your product with the custom rings of Tom Burgess generally regarded as the Rolls Royce of custom rings?

In case some do not know, Tom passed away in Aug 2008 and I believe his rings today are being made by Darrel Ragar (I actually saw it in a post on Nitro Express forum).

Warrior

Has Mr Williams disappeared again. Are the rings going the way of his promised receiver?
Butch

This seems to have run amuck,money taken and no products shipped, with empty promises
"Beware" may be a key word here...

I paid for a couple of sets and have not received them nor had any communications. One more week and I will ask the credit card company to reverse the charges. It is ok to have a problem, it is not ok to fail to communicate!

Caveat Emptor when dealing with this person my friends. You will hear from him eventually along with a litany of excuses of why the promises were not kept. Best to get your money back and order when the item actually exists---hard to mount scopes on pictures of Bases and Rings.

For Butch and Boss,

First off, I've never in my life charged any of my customers for parts that I did not make good on and this is no exception. I've been making parts for my customers for nearly 20 years and not one time have I not delivered goods that my customers have paid for.

I've been working my tail off to get these done and have had many problems, not "excuses" that have caused extensive delays, but in no way am I trying to take anyone's money without delivering the parts.

Butch,
I'm glad to see that you have once again taken such a keen interest in the goings on of my business. Your input is predictable each and every time you post on a thread that was either started by me or one of my customers, regardless of the original intent of the topic.

I fail to see what has gotten you so bent out of shape with me on the receivers in the first place. I never received a dime from anyone on that project and invested thousands of dollars, as well as countless hours and I don't recall the fact that it having not come to market, having any effect on anyone, especially you.


To my "customers", I do sincerely apologize for the long delay and no matter what it takes, I will get these done just as quickly as I can.

A quick summary of what occurred was that material that I made the very first rings out of was 416 stainless. When I made the first ring it was back in October of 2007. For a host of reasons the project was put on hold until earlier this year, but the fact was, I had a small amount of 416 left over from the original run. Later I found that getting a hold of more was going to be quite the chore and since then, I excluded stainless from my product line temporarily.

So, I make up a couple of sets with what I believed to be a valid system, along with the Kimber 84 bases and away we go. Well, most of all my orders turned out to be something other than Kimber bases, so I had to go back to the programming, which shouldn't have been a big deal either, but I had more than a few snags arise into that as well.
After spending a considerable amount of time focusing on bases, my attention was again directed back to getting the scope rings running, so I began making them out of steel. It was at that point that nothing but trouble has followed, but I've gotten through it I believe.
For some reason my original design lacked enough strength in a critical area to sustain its integrity while being machined in the final operation when made out of steel, rather than stainless. Prior to me coming to this conclusion, I made numerous tool path, speeds and feed changes and anything else you can think of to try to get it work to no avail.
I've since taken the part back to the drawing board, made a significant amount of changes, reprogrammed the entire job, and ran it through 2 of the 3 machining operations; the third of which I'll be running today to prove my system is back to being functional.

None of this is any kind of an attempt to deceive any of you. It is simply the God's honest truth and not a single person right now could want these moving out the door more than me.

I have tried my level best to keep in contact with many of the customers that have contacted me prior to the last 2-3 days, simply because I have been buried on trying to achieve a remedy, rather than saying "I'm not sure".

Those of you who frequent 24hourcampfire may know that I had my thread removed over there, due to advertising fees and either Talley or someone who is affiliated with them making it so. It is unfortunate that a one-man-band trying to make a living to support his family is deemed a threat from a company as large as Talley, but so be it. That debacle in itself consumed some time on my part as well.

Please keep in mind that when I'm on here and typing these responses, as well as returning phone calls, answering emails and other miscellaneous things, I'm not running my machine and getting the work out. Its just me and me alone doing all of it.
You gunsmiths out there know exactly what I'm talking about and I'm not suggesting in anyway that I should have avoided contact with you guys as long as I have, but please remember that there isn't anyone sitting and waiting next to the computer or the phone and I assumed at any moment I would be able to give you some good news, rather than just news.

I've been making parts for nearly 20 years and you'll not find a single person that I've ever taken their money and not delivered the product. This is for sure taking much longer than I ever suspected, but if anyone thinks I've simply thrown up my hands or ducking out, think again. Our industry has had more than a few that have done just that, but I'm not one of them and if it meant that I sell all my possessions to pay the tab, that's what I would do. I don't cheat or steal and a few on this board I've met in person, done numerous business dealings with, hunted with and considered my friends who would also echo that statement.

My word and my reputation is my bond and you have both that these will be completed just as quick as I possibly can.


I will post again tomorrow morning, if not sooner as to the results of today's run, at which time I should be able to nail down the delivery date once and for all.

Triggerguard1 and Lovebug should get married. According to eHarmony, they match on 47 measures of compatibility.

(...*sneaks in*):

live by the internet, die by the internet

(*poof!*)

Ok--he got called and made his explanation in a very timely manner.

We will see when we get posts to this thread that are positive like "holy Sh#$ these are the nicest rings and bases I have ever seen!"

He dropped me an email thru 24 Hour,however still not with a shipping date and my CC was charged for the product....

Triggerguard1
It sounded like your getting chatter in the final pass.
What has helped me out in the past on thin parts is to slap a magnet on it. The small stong rare earth magnets work best. Doesn't work all the time but when it does it will make you want to slap your mama for not telling you.
Just my two cents.

Matt,
A few years ago you were going to introduce a new receiver. You said you changed from wire EDM for the raceways to broaching them. You said the broach did a superior job. Remember that? I believe this is the only issue that I brought to you on the internet. By the way, where is the receiver?
Butch

Butch--now that you mention that I remember. It seemed like a neat project and if my memory serves I may have even posted positively about it.

That is a good question---what did happen to that project?

I will post this as a "buyer beware"promisies of shipping,he's been paid and no product!!
Internet BS...too many excuses for my money!
from 24 hour campfire..aka rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
On the other hand, some of us, including me, had our credit cards charged 5 years ago for the PM action. I am still impatiently waiting for mine.

Sometimes good stuff takes awhile to get, even if there is communication.

??????? What is that about???????? PM Action??

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
On the other hand, some of us, including me, had our credit cards charged 5 years ago for the PM action. I am still impatiently waiting for mine.

Sometimes good stuff takes awhile to get, even if there is communication.

??????? What is that about???????? PM Action??

If that's a reference to the PH action, the cards were charges in 2008, not 5 years ago.

Isn't that that Professional Hunter action from Montana Rifle?

What has that to do with Williams?

My beef with Williams is not the product or the wait time,but the un-returned phone calls,emails and a general lack of concern on his part after taking the money and promises of shipping...
I have withdrawn my order and waiting on my money to be returned.A very simple and honest answer would have been,"there are a few problems"and I would have had no problem in the wait...All this has also ruined a long-time membership at the 24 Hour Campfire,which I have realized I am better off without their BS...

I’ve stayed out of the comments so far but thought I’d go ahead and throw my 2₵ into the mix.

Do I have buyer’s remorse? No, I can’t have that until substandard parts are received.

I ordered 3 sets of rings/bases for both commercial and military M98 Mauser actions (different rear mount hole spacing) the day after Matt initiated this thread. My credit card has also been charged for the three sets and they are about 6 weeks overdue as well.

A couple of things I do remember that quells the concerns. Matt is a single individual shop. He’s a machinist not a computer programmer. Time spent talking on the phone or writing emails is time away from the CNC machines. Matt is slow in his responses regarding updated delivery schedules or even progress reports. But, Matt does eventually respond and does give me an explanation of the issues he’s working to overcome so I’ll give him additional time to get things worked out.

Why the patience? It’s very simple; if the product quality is not up to expectations it will fail on its own…however, if the rings and bases are of the quality expected then they are needed in the marketplace. I expect the latter quality so am willing to give Matt some leeway in the product delivery schedule to assure this.

If you can run a CNC machine you can certainly figure out a way to timely communicate with your customers in a manner that takes less time then it takes to take a piss.

Nothing to do with Matt Williams but there is no excuse for lack of, timely, communications.

I have been keeping contact with Matt and he with me. I placed an order and my credit card hasn't been charged.....

Cheers,
Mark.

Any updates on these rings and bases?

I would sure like to know what the status of these rings and bases is.

well,he sent me an email,I responed and it bounced back,so at this point I've not gotten anywhere.I called him on Nov 9th,no call back yet....

According to an email received 12/01, some may ship next week. Sounds like the problems may be worked out, and he is working on catching up.

Has anyone heard anything more on these rings and bases? Not trying to stir anything but I am very interested in the product.

Still waiting for mine. When received I'll post with photos...if received.

I have in the meantime made other arrangement with my gunsmith in order to not delay my rifle build any longer.

Still waiting, promised no later than the 1st week in January......

This poor Williams guy has just about killed any chance he has of ever selling much of his product to the trade. Do not know what is going on but he has trouble keeping his word to his potential customers.

Communication is a key when it comes to trying to get folks discretionary income.

I sent Matt an email this morning. When/if I here anything I will let you know. I am disappointed to say the least. Problems in manufacturing are one thing, poor communication is another...

I received my bases and rings either the end of December or first of January. Good quality, good finish. I'm happy with them, but was as worried as the rest of you for a while. They mounted well and as easily as a Talley.

Hope he gets caught up with production and everyone gets the product they are waiting on.

quote:

Originally posted by Aggie:
I received my bases and rings either the end of December or first of January. Good quality, good finish. I'm happy with them, but was as worried as the rest of you for a while. They mounted well and as easily as a Talley.

Hope he gets caught up with production and everyone gets the product they are waiting on.

Aggie,

Good to hear. What action are the bases for?

Matt responded to my email and said my bases will be sent next week. I will post when received.

My brother is waiting on a set as well...

With this kind of turn around time on such a small profit item I can't see how this can last very long...

quote:

Communication is a key when it comes to trying to get folks discretionary income

You can say that again... most people's businesses fail, not because their product isn;t good, but they just have no clue how to run the business itself. Communication is about as important as anything...

So far, so good..

I received my tracking info from Matt today. I am looking forward to getting them mounted in the next few days.

I emailed Matt sometime after my post above with a couple of questions. He replied a day later. We exchanged a couple of more emails the next day then I ordered rings and bases via email advising that I was out of the country for a month. This week he emailed advising they were ready to ship, we exchanged $$ info and they are on there way. I should see them when I get home on Wednesday. All in all, a very good transaction.

Capoward,

I'm sorry, I haven't been following this thread in awhile. Just logged on and saw your question to me.

My bases were for a M70 in .300 WSM, one of the New Haven guns that I had a too-tall set of Talleys on. Changed to these, with a Kahles 2-7x 36 scope, and it looks and aligns nice.