quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:
I called Dumoulin, their web site is out of date. They no longer make a rifle on a std length action. They still make the long magnum "White Hunter" on what they called a German made action.
The company is more involved with manufacturer of aircraft parts & less with firearms.
I suspect these were left over after they discontinued the guns made on them.
See page 14
http://www.skywin.be/sites/def...tique%20-%202013.pdf

Good info Ken.

Thanks.

Remember Empire Rifles?
Take a look at some photos, looks like the same or very similar action including the scope mounting system & safety to my eyes.
https://www.behance.net/gallery/479420/Empire-Rifles

I had forgotten all about them. Yes, they do look very similar with maybe a few more machining steps to them. If I remember correctly when they closed they left a few here high and dry. What a shame.

Are these Chinese made or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Are these Chinese made or not?

No

Thank you!

Am I correct in assuming these have a 3.4" magazine box?

quote:

Originally posted by thirdbite:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Are these Chinese made or not?

No

Based on this Canadian ad it would appear that they are made in China for a Belgian contract.http://www.leverarms.com/mauser-action.html For a further discussion look at the NitroExpress forum on Mausers.

And the text below every picture when you click on it says "Belgian made Mauser action". So which do you believe?

If it were made in China would it not have some Chinese markings on it?
I have one in my hands at this moment and see only "Sarco Easton", "Mauser", "Belgium" on the bottom.
On the side in script "Dumouline Herstal S.A."
No other markings.

European law would not allow the actions to be marked as originating in Belgium unless Belgium was where "they underwent their last, substantial, economically justified processing or working in an undertaking equipped for that purpose and resulting in the manufacture of a new product or representing an important stage of manufacture." If that was China, then it should be so marked. None of this precludes the inclusion of minor parts or non-substantial assembly or production in other countries and which does not need to be marked as a country of origin on the item.

quote:

COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 2913/92 of 12 October 1992 establishing the Community Customs Code

CHAPTER 2 - ORIGIN OF GOODS
Section 1 - Non-preferential origin

Article 24
Goods whose production involved more than one country shall be
deemed to originate in the country where they underwent their last,
substantial, economically justified processing or working in an undertaking
equipped for that purpose and resulting in the manufacture of a
new product or representing an important stage of manufacture.

Article 25
Any processing or working in respect of which it is established, or in
respect of which the facts as ascertained justify the presumption, that its
sole object was to circumvent the provisions applicable in the
Community to goods from specific countries shall under no circumstances
be deemed to confer on the goods thus produced the origin of
the country where it is carried out within the meaning of Article 24

Country/ies of origin determine(s) the types and amounts of tariffs and quotas. Importers and exporters of all goods regularly provide and pass along the origin information.

To import into a country like Canada or the USA a Certificate of Origin is required and must list all countries of origin of the item. For example, if 70% of the parts were made in China and 30% of the parts were made in Belgium, including the receiver (the main component) and all parts were finished, fitted and assembled in Belgium and the end result was 30% Chinese manufacture and 70% Belgian manufacture then all that information would be indicated on the Certificate of Origin. The marking of the final assembly such as "Made in XYZ" or "Assembled in XYZ from parts made in ABC" must meet the requirements of the destination country.

If you want to know the origin, ask the importer. It looks like Lever Arms is disclosing the origin. But if you bought one and had it imported into the USA then you would need them to provide all information required to complete a Certificate of Origin.

If SARCO Easton, PA is importing these then SARCO had to provide a Certificate of Origin to the US Government. If you want to know the origin then ask SARCO. They must disclose it.

Grenadier, Like most gunsmithing problems put forth on the web, they'd rather sit around and speculate/guess. That's just the way it's become. Lots of "guessers", few with actual solutions.

Color me cynical, but I would not believe much of anything Sarco has to say. Having dealt with them for many years they are less than "honest" and "forth coming". They have been shown on several occasions to embellish the truth if not outright lie.

Such as the receivers being made from A2 tool steel. Laughable if it were not an outright lie.

A2 is pretty comical. Not happening. Don't believe it. The A2 ive machined was much tougher than the metal on this action from just touching up the receiver face.

Aaron,
what's your opinion of these actions as far as needing additional machine work versus a FN commercial Mauser action?
All I want is a squared action with smooth bolt throw and cycling.

quote:

Originally posted by uwave:
Same action?

http://www.leverarms.com/mauser-action.html

yes -- these are the legacy mauser and the empire rifles action .. very darn good actions, actually

imho, the trigger could be replaced with a timney --

made in belgium - not "china"

makes a great looking and functioning rifle

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by uwave:
Same action?

http://www.leverarms.com/mauser-action.html

yes -- these are the legacy mauser and the empire rifles action .. very darn good actions, actually

imho, the trigger could be replaced with a timney --

made in belgium - not "china"

makes a great looking and functioning rifle

Jeffeosso,

the provided link to the website (Leverarms) made it very CLEAR that the actions are MADE IN CHINA for Belgian contractor.

I hope these aren't the same as SARCO!

Thanks Norseman -- I didn't read that until you pointed it out --

however, the legacy and empire where made in belgium - belgian proofs and all --

these, then COULD be, both the new one in the link, as well as the sarco -- as they could both be newer production... my cost, 8+ years ago, was more than the 295 form sarco..

thank you for correcting me

I can buy a 1908 or a G33-40 for two or 3 times as much, but on a $6500 rifle that's a pretty good route to go and in fact that's why I use the good proven action on any rifle, it makes resale so much better and they are accepted as the best of the best, the Chilean, Puruvian and such....Same with Lothar walthar barrels..It just doesn't cost that much more to go first class except on todays airlines!

I'm taking the plunge. It'll be a rimless 450 Alaskan.

I guess it doesn't bother anybody that these actions are made in CHINA?

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
I guess it doesn't bother anybody that these actions are made in CHINA?

How do you know these were in fact made in China? IMO a Leverarms ad doesn't constitute proof.

A new manufacture 98 action with all the bells & whistles for $350, smells like sweet and sour to me.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
I guess it doesn't bother anybody that these actions are made in CHINA?

How do you know these were in fact made in China? IMO a Leverarms ad doesn't constitute proof.

TC1,
the ad clearly states that the actions are, MADE IN CHINA!
Why would Leverarms pay additional money to a website designer/programmer to advertise MADE IN CHINA?
Perhap's Leverarms wants to protect their reputation and not be accused of misleading the customers of where the actions are made?
TC1,
why you don't call them and find the answer's to your question?

My question? I haven't asked any questions other than YOUR proof of your claim. If that ad is all you have, I'm not yet convinced of your accusation. When you open the fuzzy pictures on the same page it says it's Belgium made. So much for the protecting their reputation comment. I just don't consider a Internet ad proof of anything. There is no need for me to call, I'm not the one claiming to know where they were made and really don't care enough to pursue it. I sold mine after finding a fantastic deal on a G33/40. I couldn't afford to build both and the D/A action was promptly sold.

Funny thing, I have another one of these. Same action, different rollmark. It's called a Global Trading Mauser and a lot folks claimed it was made in Italy .

Who knows.

TC1 I am in agreement with you.
I have one of these actions and I find no markings or indication whatsoever it could be Asian made. I purchased mine from Sarco and their ad said "made in Belgium" good enough for me after my personal "in hand" inspection.
If someone wants to "prove" otherwise then the burden of proof is on them, Sarco says made in Belgium.
I happen to think that what I got was a smoking hot deal. Tell me I'm wrong....

I bought five of these recently with earnings from a dollar dropped in the first [and last] one armed bandit in Coos Bay that not only paid ALL my land taxes for the next few years ,made the wifey happy and allowed for frivilous investment. As one gentleman said--"no brainer"
The actions arrived and I stuck one in the lathe and checked the front receiver ring. possibly [?].002 but less. They are a little rough but not as bad as the old Interarms that most "knowledgable" gurus cursed back in the 70s. I tried a nice DST assembly from an old Type B and it worked perfectly. Considering the steps involved in making a standard 98 into a good custom??? Almost all the work is done. I did send one to Blanchards in Utah to see how well or not it is built. I should hear back from them this next week. Didn`t check the lugs yet but, all in all, am happy with my "new kids" and will sit on them for awhile and see what wonderful things obummer will do to us. I figure sometime they will be gone and then what? To me? A good buy.
Aloha, Mark

Just to make things clear, I have no idea where they were made. They do say Belgium on the bottom though. I guess anything is possible but I want more proof than an Internet ad with a 100% retail mark up and dark fuzzy pictures.

I think somebody is afraid to admit that he bought a CHINESE made action?
The website is very clear on this and I didn't see anything fuzzy about this whatsoever.

A simple phone call will answer your questions as it did for me since long distance phone calls are free in USA if you have a cellphone.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
I think somebody is afraid to admit that he bought a CHINESE made action?
The website is very clear on this and I didn't see anything fuzzy about this whatsoever.

A simple phone call will answer your questions as it did for me since long distance phone calls are free in USA if you have a cellphone.

Nah, I've got a 100% Chinese rifle. I just don't think you've offered any real proof.

TC1,
are you retarded?

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
TC1,
are you retarded?

No need to get ugly Norseman. I just don't think you've offered any real proof of your accusation. The ad you stand by even contradicts itself. Leverarms and Sarco are just second hand re-sellers and I doubt either one knows the whole story of these. One say's Belguim, the other says China.

In the mean time maybe this will help you. Right now with your last post I would say you're hovering between level 3 and 4

TC1 that is some funny shit right there!

Norseman, who gives a shit really?
Try as you might you will not prove to TC1 or myself or Bohica, (who all own these actions) that they are not a good deal.
Deal with it...

I feel pretty sure Norseman is a good person. I just wanted to end it with some humor.

Terry

http://forums.accuratereloadin...121040812#3121040812

Whew!

Actually, anyone who thinks that the old military actions of 100 years ago, made of questionable steel, guess-and-by-color heat treating and single stage manufacture are better than the clones coming out of the plants like Norinco which are made with modern steel on CNC equipment. Well you guys are just fooling yourselves. Yes the stuff of old was good in its day and often cleaned up a lot nicer than the 240 belt finish that the Chinese leave on the exposed surfaces. As far as strength and tolerances go, modern manufacture wins hands down. There is an old saying: "No mater how much you polish a turd. It's still a turd!"

...

quote:

Originally posted by Doug W:


Well, now you have dun it! lol

I ain't afeared of man nor beast and damned few wimmens Doug ! Dumb as a box of rocks, but I aintent skeert of nuttin.

That has not been my experience with older Mauser actions, nor with the Dumoulin action I have in the shop.

You mentioned in the other thread it was within tenths, I would be real curious to know what was in tenths, and how you set it up to measure it.

I'm not being argumentative at all... just curious. This action I have is garbage, maybe I got the turd and the rest of them are within tenths.

I keep a rough reference sheet on the mausers I have through the shop. On critical dimensions like the thread extension they have so far varied .005 in length and .003 in diameter (measured over wires). That is over several manufacturers and 40 years. Pretty damn incredible to me.

...

I have had four (4) of the Sarco actions. Of these, one(1) was usable. One had a rear guard screw that was so poorly drilled and tapped that it had to be returned. The other two had rails so bad that they looked like plowed fields in miniature. Ramps were poorly done, but correctable. The rails were beyond help, in my opinion.