The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Are these actions any good?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/dumoulin-mauser-action.aspx seems like a good price, I was wondering if they are a good action to build a rifle on. ----------------------------------------------------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Proverbs 26-4 National Rifle Association Life Member | ||
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My question is if all the things they say at the beginning of the ad about exact tolerances etc., why do I have true the action, lap the lugs, smooth the feed ramp etc.? I would like to hold one in my hands, but am just a little skeptical. | |||
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You don't. But since you are there with a bare action that clearly isn't high dollar why wouldn't you take the time to do or check it before installing the barrel? 1. Lap the bolt lugs & receiver locking recesses for full contact and improved accuracy. 2. Face off and true the front of the receiver. 3. Smooth the feed ramp. 4. Checking the bolt face to make sure it is square & true. All pretty minor. | |||
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A friend has one on order. I will order one once I hear from him. I seriously doubt these are the same actions that Dumoulin builds their rifles from. I also SERIOUSLY doubt they were machined from A2 tool steel. For several reasons. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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If the Sarco's copy is correct, these may be pretty interesting.... M98s with all the bells & whistles, machined from of modern alloy steel forgings. Wonder if they are 'C' Ring or 'H' Ring? And if they have the true M98 undercut extractor groove? Sure like to hear from someone who has one who can comment on the quality. | |||
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A2 is a high carbon, chrome moly steel; very high carbon, which is why it is called a tool steel. It is actually an air hardening steel; Heat treatment has to be carefully done or it will be brittle; unlike the low carbon steels that Mausers are usually made out of, which is hard to mess up. It is unusual to make a receiver out of it but no reason not to. If you were to categorize it, it would be like a 4195 steel. This is a great deal on these actions. | |||
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I saw these too. Just have so many projects going right now. However I did order a few of the bolts. They already have the 3 position side safety. For about $5 more than the cost of a safety you get an extra bolt, extractor, etc., etc. May pick up a couple just to tuck away for a rainy day. John Life Member Second Amendment Foundation Life Member NRA DRSS | |||
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If anyone purchases one, I would be interested in seeing their feedback. I suppose that if it has the proof marks as described in lindy2's link, then it is the "real deal". I've been itching to put together a 35 Whelen for some time and it looks like this might be a good action to use. Lee | |||
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The company is a quality company that is certain. Their finished products command high prices here in Europe. Google them. "Dumoulin Rifle". See what you get. But just like their ain't no "dog" in Dog Biscuits (despite what it says on the side of the packet) I'd question exactly why these things are being sold off? | |||
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Typical "Chrome-Moly" steel is 4140 alloy steel .Excellent for most of the rifle .A2 is a tool steel.Most of the benefits of A2 would be wasted on a firearm. Harder to machine , harder to forgeand doesn't have many advantages over 4140 for firearms !! The only thing I can think of is that someone sold then on the idea of using A2 .When they found the problems they decided to dump them. I've seen that with none gun situations for sure . Hire a real metallurgist like me [except I'm retired ]   | |||
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Hi again RUB LINE, METE and all others! I have e-mailed Dumoulin in Belgium with a link to the website of SARCO and the question, in French, "These actions are they yours?". I am away working in France until late Monday so will post here any reply...or fact or a non reply...if and when something arrives in my e-mail inbox. | |||
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I admit to being tempted by, at least, one of these actions. Skeptical on the Dumoulin provenance as well, but, who knows? Supposedly, a few members over at 24Hour have some of these on the way so I am eager to see what their thoughts are, upon receipt. According to the Sarco description, the receiver and bolt are listed at RC 47/48. One thing that came up on the Campfire thread was what rings would work on these. Sunny Hill makes both QD and standard versions in both 1" and 30mm. EAW also makes their pivot bases and claw mounts. | |||
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A2 is not THAT hard to machine; as I said, it is really a very high carbon, chrome moly steel with some Vanadium in it. It is not hard until you heat treat it, but it is tough. I have a bar of it here and it is good stuff. It it supposed to have a machinability rating of 70% of that for low carbon steel, which is about that for 4140, so really, it is not that bad of a choice. Easy to heat treat. I usually prefer lower carbon stuff for receivers but this will work. | |||
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My guess is that the actions would be OK, too. The brilliance in 98 Mausers comes more from the design than the maker and steel quality - and I have never heard anything bad about Dumoulin. | |||
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Chris Reeves 'Prybar" knives are A2. They are machined pieces, not ground. | |||
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I found nowhere on Dumoulin web sight that said anything about what metal material their recievers or bolts are made of. The one from Sarco looks just like one on Dumoulin web page. I like that little threat worded in there...dont wait until there $600.00.  Where else can one find a 98 action for 295.00 new? I want to do this but something tells me no, and Sarco's never done me wrong in the past.I do NOT need another action... I do NOT need another action... I do NOT need another action...  ._____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
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Doug W- The question isn't IF the work has to be done or IF it will be done. My question was that in the first part of the ad they are bragging of the quality of manufacturing and in the second part they are telling you that in spite of all of this quality you have to correct the manufacturing errors. Sounds like they are trying to cover their ass because things just might not be quite as good as they sound. So is it a poorly worded ad or a semi complete action? Time will tell and hopefully for everyone who buys sight unseen it is the ad. | |||
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Well 1st of all, it is Sarco. But on any of the commercial FNs, Mark Xs, M700s etc which I consider quality actions I have always done or at least checked that before I installed a barrel. So I wouldn't call it a manufacturing error, more exceptable manufacturing tolerance which can be easily be reduced. | |||
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These look kind of like the Global Trading M98 actions from a few years ago... But weren't those supposed to have been made in Italy? | |||
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lindy2, Could you please give us some background on yourself? You seem to make alot of statements and ask alot of questions that may be more meaningful if AR members knew a little more about you. Dave Wesbrook | |||
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Why??! Are his statements incorrect or illogical? Perhaps you might find his waist measurement or ice cream preferences helpful! GEEESH!! | |||
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Gentry safety - $189 Dakota Safety - $149 | |||
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conifer, Wouldn't you rather know? It does matter if his (or hers) statements are based on knowledge or opinion. | |||
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Sorry, haven't been ignoring thread, just busy with work, work, and a little more work! As previously mentioned A2 is not really an "ideal" steel for making firearms. In a production or semi-production environment it is much more "difficult" to machine in comparison to other steels. Difficult meaning more time consuming, greater wear on consumables, OR a much greater cost due to more expensive tooling and consumables. That being said, I would rather machine A2 than 1018. I machine A2, D2, CPM's, Vanadis, and similar steels every day. It ain't rocket science but it does require some extra time and cost. Another reason is the heat treatment of A2. A2 is generally heat treated to 54-58 Rc, though it can be drawn back to 48. But why? It would be like buying a new Peterbuilt to haul your pop up camper. The last reason, and biggest reason I have serious doubts about the actions being made of A2 is the availability of A2 in Europe. I don't have my steel chart in front of me, but A2 is an "American" steel. There are similar steels in Europe, and maybe you can buy A2, in Europe, I don't know for sure. I do know that when we receive German built dies they can't get A2 over there. They use something similar that is a DIN equivalent, but my understanding is, "it ain't A2". Anyone more familiar is welcome to correct me. And, in fact, I'll ask my boss (German "Master" machinist) as to availability just to clarify. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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It's not rocket science... | |||
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I once worked in a company that manufactured large oil filters by the 100,000. The filters had a rolled perforated core with .250 diameter holes. The punch press die that punched the steel was fed from a large coil. The die had 10 rows of 50 holes or 500 holes total. The dies were made of A2 tool steel. There was at least one guy making these dies about 6 months of the year. The punch presses hit once a second around the clock. The slugs filled a 6'X 8'X 10' hopper about every 2 weeks. We sent the dies out to a professional heat treat shop 60 miles away. A2 was used because it did not shrink or warp much when heat treated. The punches that mated to the die were held in a carbon steel die block that was not heat treated. We did have a few dies crack when they were ran too long without sharpening. Sharpening consisted of removing about .010 off the top of the die with a surface grinder. To prevent cracking the dies were put on an shorter sharpening schedule. The punches were changed to a stepped height configuration. The center 50% of the punch array was left .020 longer than the outside 25% on each end. This reduced the impact load on the die by 50% and there was no more cracking. All that points to A2 being an excellent material for holding an edge and fatigue under very high impact cycles. The heat treat we specified was RC 60-62. For use as a rifle receiver something in the low to mid 40s is probably a much better heat treat. Here is a discussion of Charpy impact testing that might shed some light on the effect of proper heat treatment for impact resistance. | |||
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You get what you pay for. They are crap plain and simple. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Cusom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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Well, I went ahead and ordered one. Initial reports from my friend seemed OK, not great, but worth $300. Beware, shipping is $25. Will post pictures and details if anyone has requests. Probably be Wed? next week when I get it. I will see if I can sneak it into work and have them test the action for metallurgy, but I doubt it. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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This is tempting to me to buy a couple but I think I'll hold off until I hear your assessment of them. Look forward to hearing what you think! | |||
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I couldn't resist, I bought one. Seemed like a reasonable thing to do. | |||
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I'm thinking there will be one heading to Wisconsin next week. I've seen bottom metal go for as much. ----------------------------------------------------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Proverbs 26-4 National Rifle Association Life Member | |||
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Considering it is cheaper than finding a new in the box Interarms action and it comes with a better safety setup, seems like you couldn't go too far wrong this these. I doubt that they are perfect, but as pointed out above, find an action that is. Looks like a lot for your money. By the way, these are forged 4140. I shot them (Dumoulin) an email several years ago and asked. No idea where Sarco got their information. Jeremy | |||
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I've had no reply from Dumoulin to my email. Did they say if they were 1st quality or rejects or any other info? | |||
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Farbedo, I am not contesting you in anyway, but would you mind forwarding me or copying that portion of the email for me? I just have a soft spot for seeing it from the source. Would love to have a copy from them. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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This is a really interesting thread as I am about to pull the trigger on a build using an FN commercial action. These look like a viable alternative, so count me among those VERY interested to hear the reviews/opinions of you guys here. Sarco is less than 90 mind from me so I may just go see if I can get to look at one first hand | |||
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I will post what I can from the email if I can find it. It was several years ago that I contacted them for a business reason. My previous post has been edited to reflect that. I understand the want to verify the information source. They do state the alloy family that they use on their website in the description of their actions. They state that they are chrome/moly. In other word, 4100 series alloy. Jeremy | |||
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Probably not prudent to take info from several years ago or even their current models and apply it to these actions that Sarco is selling. They call there current model the A2000. Wonder if Sarco truncated that model number to A2 steel? | |||
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Mr. Kobe, do you mean the two safeties mentioned are crap? What do you use or recommend? Dave | |||
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Anybody get one of these actions yet? Impressions? Belgian markings? | |||
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I have been curious on someones analysis also. Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum | |||
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