Well, it finally happened.

I usually don't use UPS for firearms but last week I shipped an air rifle and UPS must have thrown it off the truck, they cracked the stock.

The gun was packaged as well as possible, have not had problems before. I filed a claim and it was denied for insufficient packaging.

I am sure they deny all claims as a rule. Has anyone had success in appealing a denied claim?

Any advice? Not out a terrible amount, am more interested in the process.

thanks, Rob

I've had luck getting paid after they denied a claim for "insufficient packaging", but it took about 6 months, dozens of calls, multiple letters and quite a bit of yelling until I got through to someone who could fix it. In the end I think they just paid me so I would go away.

You can do it, but it will take some effort.

The squeaking wheel will get the grease. Document everything and every conversation. Follow-up with polite, but firm letters. Go as far up the chain as it takes. All the way to the Chairman if needed. They are betting you quit, no is always if you don't keep at it until you get to yes.

Not trying to be a wise ass and I know it's after the fact . For future shipments BUY THE INSURANCE.

Then there is NO HASSLES AT ALL .

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Not trying to be a wise ass and I know it's after the fact . For future shipments BUY THE INSURANCE.

Then there is NO HASSLES AT ALL .

Sorry if I wasn't clear Doc, but I BOUGHT THE INSURANCE!

They still don't want to pay. Buying insurance with UPS means nothing, they are scum.

I reiterate, you must become a polite, persistent, pain-in-the-ass if you want your money. NO is an easy answer for them and most people quit at the first no.

I sold a New Hermes engraver to a friend in Montana. It was a floor model. They are kinda flimsy. I took it to the UPS store as they said they would pack it for me. I paid $150 for packing, shipping, and Insurance. Of course it was busted when it got there. They said they wouldn't pay since it wasn't packed well. I said guess what! Your folks packed it! It took 2 months of hollering and screaming and an attorney letter to get the insurance money.
Butch

If you ship it at a customer counter they have approved the way it was packed.

file a suit in small claims court. You will need evidence that the thing wasn't broken before you shipped it.

that's what I'm working on now, small claims court. they, being a corporation, must send a lawyer, I can represent myself. The amount is less than what a lawyer would cost them.

I'll report the outcome.

Sooner or later you will have a claim with any of the carriers if you use them enough.

Don't give in or give up. They must have a sign in front of them that says "deny the claim" where ever it is that you call.
The insufficient packaging is the standard denied claim liner.
Document all your calls, emails and letters. Get the name, empl# or everyone you talk to. Don't take no for an answer and ask to speak/ be transfered to a supv if the answer you are given is not sufficient.

I was denied a claim for a rifle that was stolen off the front steps of a residence when it was delivered and left there. Even though there was an 'adult signiture delivery' required on it AND the driver logged into the UPS TraX system "left on front steps". It still took just short of 3 months to get paid.

A few known UPS facts. Thanks to our local UPS neighbor/driver.

High vaule items are placed in the REAR of the trucks, so when the door is opened and the load has shifted. Guess what they fall on the ground.

Also any high vaule package, over $1000, is handled differntly. It is scanned at our place ( since we are an UPS shipper ), taken to the local distrubtion area, checked for PROPER packaging, if it is not OK, they have the right to refuse it, for improper packaging.

Just thought this might help. as they do not want us to know how they do things.

James Wisner

they always refuse all claims
RECORD every conversation - tell them that are doing it

be firm, direct, and DO NOT go off course .. they WILL try to take you down a rabbit trail ..

I think in many cases UPS is correct in denying claims for broken gun stocks. It is their standard practice to throw all packages, even those stickered "fragile". If you don't pack to survive that treatment you are at fault. Such packing requires that the long gun be wedged and blocked in place so that zero movement is possible under hard impacts. 2" or so of foam at either end of the box to prevent poke-through is a no-brainer, and I rarely ship without double boxing.
I've shipped multiple dozens of guns over the years with much praise for my packing jobs and never a complaint of damage. It's a lot less work to pack really well than to file a claim.

The one claim I did make with UPS was for a broken golf club a few years ago. They paid promptly after a brief phone conversation.

UPS can deny claims based on insufficient packaging but at the same time they have a rule that forbids them from accepting parcels with insufficient packaging. Had to file one claim years ago with them and they denied me initially. Once I trotted this out of their rule book things went better for me.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
UPS can deny claims based on insufficient packaging but at the same time they have a rule that forbids them from accepting parcels with insufficient packaging. Had to file one claim years ago with them and they denied me initially. Once I trotted this out of their rule book things went better for me.

This was handed to a driver so I'm not sure if that applies.

He's an agent of the company, isn't he? If it was insufficiently packaged, he should not have accepted it. That's the stance I took with them and it worked for me. But, that was then.

quote:

The gun was packaged as well as possible

Do they have printed material that states exactly what they consider to be sufficient packaging?

In what way does the packaging you used differ from what they suggest?

UPS broke the stock of a Marlin I shipped. I had insurance, they denied the claim. It is a scam.

My UPS driver, also a customer, told me to insure anything that is hard to replace for at least $1000 no matter the actual value. That $1K flags it for special treatment through the system.

Sorry to hear of your problems with UPS. A previous poster said they are scum and he was RIGHT!!! Thier (over) charges for shipping to Canada are just plain legalized robbery!! I will never ship anything UPS again, nor will I buy any item that the seller intends to ship through UPS! There are other shipping companys out there so (in future) use one of them!

Sorry, I know that was not any help with your current problem but as others have said, this is not a "one off" occurance!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

The gun was packaged as well as possible

Do they have printed material that states exactly what they consider to be sufficient packaging?

In what way does the packaging you used differ from what they suggest?

They quoted a bunch of numbers, the box's cardboard was not thick enough, it needs to be double wall. It needs 2" of "approved" padding around it (it did), etc., etc.

Bottom line is the gun was well packed, somewhere along the way it was dropped hard.

I order "pick ups" on line and when the value is $1000.00 or more, I am printed a form that I maintain possession of, that the driver must sign and print his name on when accepting the package. I've never had problems. Although I have a customer in Montana who sends his stuff marked "DO NOT USE FOR WHEEL CHOCKS"

Recoil Rob ; Now that I know you paid insurance , stay after them as suggested .

Please ask them " What's the insurance for " ? an then sight them for not fully disclosing packaging

rules and regulations requirements in " PLAIN SIGHT " . Have a local News station who does investigations

of consumer fraud ?. That generally gets them off there ass and you'll be paid ASAP, works most every time .

Anytime one ships with a common carrier please do the following .

A ; photograph the item your shipping B; ditto for the container especially ( Box cardboard specs )

and the insert packing . C ; Make sure it " ALL MEETS " the carriers requirements .

D ; Declare value and purchase insurance .

If all the above is met there is no way in hell they can refuse payment if an Item is busted in

transit . Now here is another REALLY IMPORTANT TIP ; Make DAM SURE the parcel is OPENED in front of

their Carrier before accepting it . This way there can be NO EXCUSES . Signature required

insures that last step happening and just ask the carrier to verify condition of content .

When Moneys tight they'll try and bitch squeal an squirm out of losses . Screw Em they assume the risk

and are paid for it !!!!!.

My fix has been to use other carriers. After experience the same type of problems others have posted I have quit using UPS in any capacity. The only way to make the companies practices better is to reduce the money they make until they recognise that the policy the use is a poor one.

RecoilRob,

This happened a few years ago to a friend of mine. UPS managed to gouge a chunk out of the stock of a very nice air rifle. My friend filed a consumer complaint with the Illinois State Attorney General's office and UPS did pay the entire amount that the air rifle had been insured for. Theya re the biggest crooks and I would never deal with them for anything, but, now that you have been hurt, do put together all the information that you have and file a complaint against them with your State Attorney General. You will find them much mroem amenable to making amends if you do that.

Thanks to all.

I usually ship USPS but this was an inexpensive gun, I took my chances.

Interested to know if Fedex is any better?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike in Michigan:
My UPS driver, also a customer, told me to insure anything that is hard to replace for at least $1000 no matter the actual value. That $1K flags it for special treatment through the system.

+1. Then everytime it is touched it has to be scanned. If it gets lost or damaged, the last person to scan it has some 'splaining to do. So guess what; it doesn't get lost or mishandled.

It took a year and the issuance of Subpoenas demanding their employees presence in court to get them to settle with me over a destroyed gun. They sent a driver to pick up the gun from the owner. he gave it to them. I contacted the BATF and asked if UPS had a FFL or would have to fill out a 4473. They sent and Inspector to the USP office and I nevcer heard anything else about it. They finally paid the claim. I bought the customer a new action and rebarreled it in 6.5 X .284.

It shoots like a hummer and the customer was very pleased.

I refuse to do business with Fedex.

Longshot

I always ship rifles and barreled actions in a cheap gun case and put that in cardboard.

Whenever packaging a firearm or anything else you value . Use proper packaging materials that won't shift

in shipment . I've posted this before for those of you who may have missed it I'll do er again .

A box within a box. Your inner box should have a Minimum of 2" free space all around the edges of

whatever is being shipped . Now kraft paper or wax paper between your object and free space. The home

centers sell expandable foam in a can , for those with out foamers or foam pouches .

Use it to stabilize the object in that box , cover your object with wax paper in " KEY SPOTS "

put some foam on those areas . Now close that box slip it into your out side cover box , if it's to tight

use a hacksaw blade an trim a little . Now nice fit , then foam ends of outer box so as to secure

inner box . With practice it takes less than 15 minutes to " SELF INSURE " Successful shipping .

The last time I personally had a problem with broken content on my end of the equation , 1982

PS ; I've also shipped some delicate glass items over those years .

Thought you may be interested in the outcome.

Persistence and threats bear out. I went right to the top, so to speak. I called UPS headquarters in Atalanta and asked for the CEO by name (Scott Davis). Of course I didn't get him but I through to someone that is there to do what they can to insulate him.

I got a pleasant woman that took all my info and had someone more local call me to handle it. I also mentioned, several times, that I would sue UPS in small claims court and that paying a lawyer was going to cost them more than my claim.

In the interim the gun was returned to me and they wanted to reinspect it. They never did, I still have it.

Bottom line is I had to call her every day for status reports and after about 5 days they approved it and sent a check right out.

Persistence and threat of legal action worked but granted mine was a small claim. I will never use them for anything over a couple hundred dollars.

Congratulations. Sometimes being a pain in the ass pays off.

UPS and Fed Ex are very convenient...I have a Fed Ex account and use it a LOT!

By far the safest way is to ship via USPS. Their's is actual insurance...UPS and Fed Ex is not insurance. (read the fine print).

USPS is not a perfect system..you sometimes have to edcuate the clerk and posmaster.

To be really safe, send registered...Oh yes, you have to seal with "moisture activated tape"
not really easy to find anymore, but worth the trouble...even the UPS "stores" probably do not have it.

It's also slower..but the trade off is almost 100% certainty of undamaged delivery.


If it absolutely has to get there next day..I invested in a Kalispell case. Little bit of a pain for the customer to return the case, but he gets it as needed and undamaged. (costly)

Congrats Rob....

Yep, I have to ship a Parker GHE next week so it's out to Graingers for some brown tape and USPS.

so if I want to ship something via USPS, and get the insurance, I have to use moisture activated tape? I'm about to ship off a project and I'd guestimate the action to be about 4500-5k worth of work in it, I was planning to go UPS as I've never had trouble, but am now wondering....

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
so if I want to ship something via USPS, and get the insurance, I have to use moisture activated tape? I'm about to ship off a project and I'd guestimate the action to be about 4500-5k worth of work in it, I was planning to go UPS as I've never had trouble, but am now wondering....

Red

You need the moisture activated tape IF you are sending Registered Mail. Get the kind with the fiberglass reinforcement in it.

I would send that project USPS Registered, the insureance is cheaper and the service better. IMHO.

any recommendation on where to get that tape?

Red

Hey Red,

I just got some of these, he has 3 more left and they have built in camo! A good deal, I compared with Graingers @ $16/one roll...

eBay Tape