Got an old 1977 M70 stock that I'm trying to restore.....now, I've removed small dents from stocks before with steam, etc. but how do you get the really big ones out??
.....also where the varnish has been worn off, the wood is very dark, not so much from oil, as just weather aging. Any cures for this? a lot has scraped off but not all.
I will post some pics once I've scraped all the varnish off



Roger

For that stock I would first strip it with a chemical paint remover. Then wash it with isopropyl alcohol. Next, remove stains with oxalic acid wood bleach. Neutralize with vinegar and water. Get a steam iron and a wool cloth. Turn the iron on to steam temperature. Soak the wool cloth in water. Lay it on the dent, apply the iron,and steam. Repeat up to twenty times. If not coming up take a needle and prick holes in the dented area. These will let the steam in. Now try again. If it is dented this should bring it up.

And if they are chips where wood is gone, and not dents, then they ain't coming back.

Thanks.....the fore-end tip and crossbolt plugs, what would they be made of and would they be effected by the bleach?

Roger

The tip and plugs are likely black plastic. The wood bleach won't affect them. If they are wood just paint the bleach around these areas. Scrape some from inside the barrel channel to check. Avoid getting chem stripper on these if plastic. If you goof don't fret, the damage can be easily sanded out.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
For that stock I would first strip it with a chemical paint remover. Then wash it with isopropyl alcohol. Next, remove stains with oxalic acid wood bleach. Neutralize with vinegar and water. Get a steam iron and a wool cloth. Turn the iron on to steam temperature. Soak the wool cloth in water. Lay it on the dent, apply the iron,and steam. Repeat up to twenty times. If not coming up take a needle and prick holes in the dented area. These will let the steam in. Now try again. If it is dented this should bring it up.

Well..I passed High School Chemistry with a "D"...Isn't vinegar acidic? I was taught to neutralize oxalic with a baking soda solution

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
For that stock I would first strip it with a chemical paint remover. Then wash it with isopropyl alcohol. Next, remove stains with oxalic acid wood bleach. Neutralize with vinegar and water. Get a steam iron and a wool cloth. Turn the iron on to steam temperature. Soak the wool cloth in water. Lay it on the dent, apply the iron,and steam. Repeat up to twenty times. If not coming up take a needle and prick holes in the dented area. These will let the steam in. Now try again. If it is dented this should bring it up.

Well..I passed High School Chemistry with a "D"...Isn't vinegar acidic? I was taught to neutralize oxalic with a baking soda solution

Baking soda is alkaline in nature; vinegar is not.

Maybe we're not on the same page, AZ...but that was my whole point...baking soda is alkaline, therefore neutralizes acid.....One does not neutralize acid with acid

BTW...paint remover will certainly damage the plastic spacers...looks to me like the cap and tip also plastic.

Sometimes the best finish remover is sandpaper,and in my experience, most finish removers create a bigger mess than you started out with

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Maybe we're not on the same page, AZ...but that was my whole point...baking soda is alkaline, therefore neutralizes acid.....One does not neutralize acid with acid

BTW...paint remover will certainly damage the plastic spacers...looks to me like the cap and tip also plastic.

Sometimes the best finish remover is sandpaper,and in my experience, most finish removers create a bigger mess than you started out with

Actually, I was agreeing with you.

OK...thought maybe I had actually deserved an "F"

seeya

Vinegar = dilute acetic acid.

My old can of oxalic says to neutralize with vinegar.

Don’t know about the chemistry, but my experience tells me those stains are not coming out. You might be able to lighten then a tad but that staining is very deep and the only hope is to stain the wood around it to try to match it. Hope I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure I’m not.

At this point John, I'm with you on this.
I'm waiting for my local "dip and strip" bloke to give me his recommendations and then I'll work out which way to go.Thanks to all for your input.

Roger

Unless that stock has some extreme sentimental value I'd think about adding it to my next campfire, toast repeatedly to your loss then order a new Winchester stock from CDNN.

I prefer to think of it as a challenge

Roger

quote:

Originally posted by yumastepside:
I prefer to think of it as a challenge

Roger

Sounds like a project.

Do your best then hunt the rifle and do not worry about the stock.

The problem is the stock might turn out a lot nicer then you think.

Paint stripper then throw it in some boiling water. If you are lucky the forend tip and grip cap will be gone when done. Cut the forend at 90 degrees and add some ebony, add a new grip cap, remove the monte carlo, add a bead around the cheek piece, finish the stock then recut the checkering and you will have a good looking stock. Might need to stain it pretty dark to make it all look the same color.

What I'd do anyway.

John

Paint it.

Yep. Needle holes every 1/4 in or so in the dent will allow steam to get under the dent, most of it will rise up. Slight impressions and the pin holes can be filled with TruOil.
Darken the rest of the stock to match. Got some Minwax Ebony or true black stain to try? Good stuff.
Those scrapes on the butt wouldn't be as obvious with a darker stain. No shame in letting some goobers. Gives it character IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
My old can of oxalic says to neutralize with vinegar.

That would sure be a new one on me. Boat Builder forum also recommends ammonia/water or baking soda.

My concern would be acidic environment left over that could damage bluing

Yeah doesn't seem to make sense. Perhaps it cleanses the wood of the bleach then rinse with water to remove any acid traces.

.....now, if you promise not to yell at me, this is the stock I took off my rifle.....



....no, I haven't lost the plot..... yet! My Gabe Gatti made stock is too good, and too expensive, to be dragged around the scrub every weekend.

The old M70 stock I'm "restoring" is literally for everyday use, it doesn't need to be perfect, just "neat and tidy" also it just happens to be the same year as the rifle, 1977, another reason I'll try to keep it fairly original. As unpopular as this older '70s style is, it is what the gun would have originally came with and you don't see them much anymore.

Roger

Can't blame you for saving the Gatti.
The stains in the 70's stock might leave a shadow if you do the acid treatment. You'll be bleaching the dark and light. Both will lighten up most likely.
Spend $10-$15 on some Minwax oil base stain and see if it will match on that light spot on the right side next to the ebony tip. What have you got to lose?
custombolt

quote:

Originally posted by yumastepside:
.....now, if you promise not to yell at me, this is the stock I took off my rifle.....



....no, I haven't lost the plot..... yet! My Gabe Gatti made stock is too good, and too expensive, to be dragged around the scrub every weekend.

The old M70 stock I'm "restoring" is literally for everyday use, it doesn't need to be perfect, just "neat and tidy" also it just happens to be the same year as the rifle, 1977, another reason I'll try to keep it fairly original. As unpopular as this older '70s style is, it is what the gun would have originally came with and you don't see them much anymore.

Roger

Me, I'd be shooting it with that Gatti stock. I hate the factory stock on my pre-64 FW.

Can't see the point of a custom stock if you don't use it.

Hey Yuma: So how do you feel about pretty ladies?

You know a stock dent is ok but a special order dent is much better.

Don't get me wrong Mike, the stock will be used on walking hunts, but the majority of our hunting here involves bouncing around in an old truck most of the day and night and can be really hard on equipment ....and bodies.
Oh, and Duane, don't worry about the pretty ladies, but unfortunately, nowadays their pretty much just for looking at and admiring their workmanship too

The gun was a gift from a gunsmith friend of mine who sadly died a few years ago and I find it hard to think of the rifle getting damaged even though he always wanted me to use it.

Hopefully a bit of judicious bleaching will clean up the old stock enough.

Roger

Lookin' forward to the pictures.

A scrape to get rid of most of the varnish, a steam with the cooks iron to bring some of the dents out and a scrub with an old toothbrush and some " deckcleen ", a 10 percent ocxalic acid timber deck cleaner, on the dark spots only.....



....not too bad so far...now for a bit of reshaping and a sand...

Roger

That's,looking good.

.

Huge improvement.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
That's,looking good.

.

Great job.

What kind of finish are you looking to achieve.

I would suggest Truoil diluted 50% with minaral spirits. You could also add Danish oil for the Tung oil & Carbauna wax content.

I would use 1 drop at a time and sand in with 400 grit and then finish with 600 grit.

I have done 2 stock - new wood - with 20 coats and got a great hard wearing water proof finish.

probably a light stain, I prefer stocks a bit dark, but as you say Naki, a diluted truoil finish......one question, just to clear things up, what do you call " mineral spirits "?
The whole point of this is get a " working " stock, one that I'm not afraid to get a few scratches on, but it is a good chance to get some stock finishing practice on.

Roger

Mineral spirits = paint thinner.

This is where the terminology between countries becomes a problem, in Australia " thinners" is the term for the liquids used for thinning paint as in the automotive industry for enamels and acrylics, something you would not use for wood....mineral spirits....does this mean mineral turpentine?....it does become confusing

Roger

ditto on Danish ... seems to make it dry faster as well, which is a huge issue. Reason they want you to thin this stuff is if you put it on neat and anything but very sparingly, it won't dry, as in never.

Dilute the 10% oxalic 50:50 with water and give the whole stock a quick wash. This will remove the lines around the old stains and even out the tone. Rinse, dry and then begin finishing.

Four coats of BLO and spirits ( turps ) sanded with 400 and two coats of BLO, turps and danish oil with Carnauba wax with a days drying in between each.....looking a bit better....pointed up a bit of the checkering so as not to lose it while sanding, will re-cut checkering after a few more coats.



The stock had a lot of cuts in the wood, along with crush marks and chips out of the edges and the left hand grip checkering. It should clean up " nice ", maybe not " perfect ", but certainly more useable than its original condition.

Roger