Canuck,

if that had been me I would have just replied: "...would you prefer to return my property to me in the same exact condition it was when I sent to you before or AFTER I have my attorney file the lawsuit for a couple of million $$$ and have the FBI contact you about the grand theft charges...? And, by the way, which newspaper/TV station would you prefer that I send copies of the correspondence to first for the exclusive interview rights?"

Replace it free of charge or just return it...suit yourself...in the next 24 hours.

The action is mine, dammit!

Rich

Since you were shooting commercially loaded ammo, Black Hills, when the rifle had the problem, Ruger has very little responsibility here, or at least they will take that approach. As for law suit, doubtful that will lead to anything other than hard feelings. Most factory warranties state that the mfg. has the option to either repair or replace. Says nothing about returning parts, components, etc.
Ruger rifles are well known for their strength and durability, perhaps not accuracy, but are probably as strong as any on the market. Ruger knows exactly what caused the problem with the rifle for they have quality technicians which will determine the cause. As others have mentioned, take the deal, but go after Black Hills if they are deemed the party at fault. Law suit will run you much more than the 350 bucks and little if any chance of winning. Believe Black Hills would listen very intently when you explain the matter to them. Good Luck.

The same size locking lugs are used on the .223 and Magnum models bolts. The back thrust from even a blown case head with a .223 is not likely to match the back thrust of a magnum round.
What exactly is damaged on the bolt?

Ruger's Customer Service manager told me that they really didn't do anything to the action...it is a blanket policy now NOT to repair or sell parts for any action that has had a case come apart in their rifles, to where it had to go to the factory or a gunsmith requiring repair...

I told them to send the action back to me, and I will get it repaired.....

I also ordered a 204 Ruger Barrel for it out of ER Shaw......Hear that Varmint Guy! IN your honor or at your insistance. I will finally try out a 204...

I don't have any problems with Ruger.. I don't blame them as much as I just blame lawyers in general.... I have also contacted Black Hills and we will see if they will do anything, besides to send me a letter telling me about their QC and how much they apologize and hope I will continue using their products in the future...etc etc etc...

I am more on the switch barrel trail for now in life.. instead of buying new rifles.......Rifle prices are getting too high anyway...barrels are affordable...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
I ask you gents for your opinions or perspectives... any real experiences would be great...

Thanks and cheers
seafire

Well, we know you are a sensible honourable 6000+ AR member.
THEY don't know you from a bar of soap, and there are a lot of nutters and frauds around.
So I'm supprised any of the companies are even talking to you.
Even my first impressions were of suspicion.

I think, if there were witnesses present I'd get them to have a look. Explain what happened, and let them see that you were indeed fireing factory ammo of the right calibre, maybe some holes already in the target to show the first shot wasn't blowing out a hornets nest or your cleaning rod etc. etc.

This would give the companys involved some idea of your credibility.
Then I'd be a bit cheesed of that a standard factory rifle with factory ammo blew up on me.

And to allow the Co's to find out what happened to me, and to MAYBE help prevent the same or worse to happen to others, I'd collect ALL the components/bits.
EG if someone sent me just the action after an accident I'd wonder if the barrel was removed to hide the evidence of a blocked bore or something.
Same with the ammo and box. Maybe they were actually reloads from who knows where. But then maybe a batch needs recalling.

Because lets face it. To them you may be a mad self taught gunsmith/reloader just after a handout. WE know your not.
Consider your self admonished.

Well JAL;

In today's modern Sue Happy Society, you make some very good points from the manufacturers perspective...

That is why I didn't go into this, with any real expectations... All I originally wanted to do was to send the bolt in to be inspected and to have the clip that bent real bad replaced...

It was the manufacturer that wanted the rifle sent it...

As far as the ammo manufacturer.. I could hear the doubt in the guys voice, that one of their items screwed up.. however, from their perspective, I am sure they are going to have to realize faults do happen...I think it is ethical to let them know a problem happened, so that they can check on it, even tho the lot was dated as being made in 1999..according to them..

It is when these manufacturers all of a sudden get the impression some one might want something out of them, or even worse, sue them... that they get real reactionary...

So if they are concerned, then so be it.... but that is why I am not really loosing sleep over it.. if I have to ever cross this bridge again.. and hopefully will not.. I won't even darken the manufacturers door.. and letting the ammo manufacturer aware of it, is more a professional courtesy....

While Ruger is being dramatic ( or their lawyers) I still maintain, it is a small piece that needs replaced... If they want to replace the entire rifle.. that is like replacing an entire car because one had a flat tire in my book....

This is really an education in legal impact on firearms and actually being able to share it fellow forum members..... hopefully there is some knowledged gained to be able to pass on to others...

cheers
seafire

Is it just part #48, what Ruger calls the "extractor band"?

What on a Mauser is called an "extractor collar"?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Canuck,

if that had been me I would have just replied: "...would you prefer to return my property to me in the same exact condition it was when I sent to you before or AFTER I have my attorney file the lawsuit for a couple of million $$$ and have the FBI contact you about the grand theft charges...? And, by the way, which newspaper/TV station would you prefer that I send copies of the correspondence to first for the exclusive interview rights?"

Replace it free of charge or just return it...suit yourself...in the next 24 hours.

The action is mine, dammit!

Rich

Rich-

The folks at Ruger may have fallen off the turnip truck on the way to the big city, but it wasn't last night. They know as well as I do that they have more money to retain and pay for lawyers than I do....or you do.

Also, as I said in my post, they DID replace both guns, free of charge. So, as to theft, I don't know a prosecutor in the world who would touch that one. They would note all of the following:

1. I sent them the guns and asked them to repair them.

2. They tried to repair them and and couldn't. On one of them they replaced virtually every part in the gun except the barrel & action body, some of them several times, in their attempts to repair it. No dice.

3. They sent me new guns for my used/damaged ones, at their expense, including mailing & insurance.

Based on those facts, show me a jury that would convict them of anything.

The FBI? BATF? What do they care? They don't get involved in civil matters.

The press? I'd be begging them to let me make a fool of myself. There's not much of a story in a manufacturer standing behind its products by supplying new ones when the old ones fail. I don't think so! Don't wanna go THERE.

Anyway, what they told Seafire about not returning unserviceable goods to consumers has been their policy since at least 1983 to my personal knowledge. The part about not trying to repair guns damaged by overloads (excessive pressure) may be new.

I still will be very interested to see if they do, in fact, return Seafire's rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Canuck,

if that had been me I would have just replied: "...would you prefer to return my property to me in the same exact condition it was when I sent to you before or AFTER I have my attorney file the lawsuit for a couple of million $$$ and have the FBI contact you about the grand theft charges...? And, by the way, which newspaper/TV station would you prefer that I send copies of the correspondence to first for the exclusive interview rights?"

Replace it free of charge or just return it...suit yourself...in the next 24 hours.

The action is mine, dammit!

Rich

Aaaahhh, the great American way. Just SUE everybody.

Did you ever consider that maybe that's WHY rifles (as well as practically everything else) are getting more expensive?

As somebody below pointed out, most warranties offer repair or exchange, AT THE COMPANY'S OPTION. Ruger offered to replace, at cost. Not a bad offer in most lawyer's eyes, especially since Ruger isn't even at fault.

A couple million??? Based on what?? A $400 rifle? Oh, let me guess.. emotional distress. FBI? What's the limit on "grand theft"?

TV stations? Picking up a "gun nut" story? Yeah, that would help....

I'm sorry, I just can't stand that sue-crazy attitude.

From the Diagram supplied by Tnekkcc above....

Yup the only thing that is bent is part # 48...
That bolt collar...

Everything else is just fine and Ruger wants me to replace the entire firearm...

According to Ruger this is a 75 cent part, and they are telling me to scrap the entire firearm....which is totally nuts! for a 75 cent part!

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
seafire,

Ruger will send the action back.. they have no legal recourse to confisate it.

jeffe

Jeffe- sometimes Ruger will return an action and sometimes they won't. I have had them keep two of mine and absolutely refuse to return them, though they DID replace both guns free of charge.

.

AC,
they replaced your actions... no? you got actions back? thats what I am saying, but they can't keep the original and not replace it, as it belongs to seafire.

jeffe

Rich,
he got new actions (in the form of guns) in return. he got his stuff back

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Bore:
As somebody below pointed out, most warranties offer repair or exchange, AT THE COMPANY'S OPTION. Ruger offered to replace, at cost. Not a bad offer in most lawyer's eyes, especially since Ruger isn't even at fault. :

Nope, they can't keep your property if you refuse a repair.. then can replace or repair, at their cost, or return it.. but they can't keep it

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:

I did take the bolt out of my Ruger 77 VT and shot about 50 rounds thru it before sending it back to Ruger.. and had no functional problems......

I hope that you are not saying that you swapped bolts between rifles. That is sure what it sounds like you said. Do you understand what "headspace" is? I'll assume that you do not own GO/NO-GO gauges for this calibre, so how could you possibly know whether your newly-created headspace was within safe limits? If you did what you say you did, you're darned lucky that you didn't damage a lot more than an extractor retaining spring...like your eyes, or a couple of fingers!!!!

quote:

I hope that you are not saying that you swapped bolts between rifles. That is sure what it sounds like you said. Do you understand what "headspace" is? I'll assume that you do not own GO/NO-GO gauges for this calibre, so how could you possibly know whether your newly-created headspace was within safe limits? If you did what you say you did, you're darned lucky that you didn't damage a lot more than an extractor retaining spring...like your eyes, or a couple of fingers!!!!

ron vella,
that's exactly what I thought. I had a Rem 700 stolen and when the Philadelphia police made it available for return, the bolt was missing. First thing I did was stop at an old timer gunsmith who, I thought, might have an '06 size bolt laying around. No, No he told me, in no uncertain terms; that guns got to go back to Illion, NY to have a new bolt fit and proofed. I did exactly that cause I don't have as much experience as Seafire.

Hello,
Take a look at the facts revealed in this matter so far. Supposed ammo issue, perhaps a gun issue, using a bolt from another firearm, etc. and it becomes quite clear that someone, somehow, screwed up big time. Ruger knows exactly what happened and are being quite generous in asking for some 350 plus dollars to erase the situation and seek settlement for all concerned.
As an arms manufacture, just how would you go about repairing a receiver?? You do not, but replace and take the damaged one out of circulation for obvious reasons. If one refused to have the receiver replaced, the factory will simply torch the old one and send you a new and then there is no recourse on your part if they did not charge you. That may well be a position you want to take if you feel that it can be executed to your benefit?????
Were you in any way harmed physically by this matter?? Apparently not this time, but future use of bolt from different receivers will surely lead to injury or worse.

I think the bolt swap is being over dramatized.
It is not a thing to do on a regular basis but half the Mausers on the planet have mismatched bolts and most shooters don't know the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
I think the bolt swap is being over dramatized.
It is not a thing to do on a regular basis but half the Mausers on the planet have mismatched bolts and most shooters don't know the difference.

Only an ordained gunsmith can perform the headspace ritual, all else is a legal liabiltity, so we must live in fear.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
I think the bolt swap is being over dramatized.
It is not a thing to do on a regular basis but half the Mausers on the planet have mismatched bolts and most shooters don't know the difference.

The serial numbers are mismatched, not the headspace. If you have enough barrelled actions, enough bolts, and a set of Go/No-Go gauges, you can come up with lots of perfectly safe rifles with mismatched NUMBERS.

Ron,

A GO/NOGO gauge was used....

Some of you guys really freak out over nothing, or assume a little common sense is not used by anyone but yourselves or some " ordained" gunsmith...( I like that quote! from tnekkcc above)

NO personal slam is intended....

HOwever as all of this plays out.. after calling Ruger and asking about the cost of the part that was needed to be replaced, the cost was 75 cents, and $3.50 shipping and handling...
That is what I originally called them for and they gave me this quilt 'safety' schtick, and told me that they should really inspect the firearm first...

However, I am told to replace a firearm for the failure or damage to a 75 cent part, seems a little to the extreme in my book... unless you are a lawyer.....then anything idiotic makes sense to a lawyer...justifying something in a law book doesn't automatic equate to common sense...

Bottomline it has taught me, to just send a needed repair to a gunsmith if you can't repair it safely yourself.....Factories may be a good source of parts.. and warranty work...

and another thing I have learned here... if you are a handloader, and use factory ammo... immediately everyone else is suspicious that you are telling a lie when something goes wrong...

if one is using their own handloads, then they don't have to worry about whose fault it is when something messes up....

Just like I do all the work on my own car.. because that way, when it breaks down,I should know what it is.. and how to fix it... or what is needed to make sure it gets fixed....because cars never break down anywhere convenient....

But a 75 cent part is needed replaced and they want the consumer to buy a new rifle, even if at discounted costs.. it like breaking a fan belt or have a water pump go out and you are told to scrap the entire car.....

Of course there are a lot of people in this world that as soon as a car needs one ounce of repair, then they trade the car off and let it be someone else's problem..... but never divulge the problem to the new owner...or never tell the dealer where they are trading it in at...

in today's world, anyone with any brains has to rely more and more upon themselves for getting thru this world...( maybe that should be on the political forum instead?)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
GSP;



However, I scrapped the rest of the box anyway...

So I sent just the action back to Ruger...why send the barrel and stock and pay the extra shipping charges for the extra weight...
QUOTE]
------------------------------------------------
Something smells here, You fire one shell and blow up the rifle, then you get rid of the only evidence you have that could be used to prove a factory overload. Don't make sense. Then you pull the barrel and send the action and bolt to the manufacturer wanting a free repair. It's not up to them to warranty an overload. If I were ruger I'd tell you to pound salt, your lucky they are offering anything at all.

Expecting Blackhills to do anything but laugh when someone contacts them saying I shot one of your rounds and it blew up my gun but I disposed of the remaining evidence so you will have to take my word for it, lacks any credibility.

Then you put another bolt in and fire ten more rounds........ don't make sense from someone who has your experience to do this without checking headspace. Sure non matching bolts can and are used all the time but not until the headspace is checked to be safe. I thought you knew better.

Sounds fishy, how do we know you just didn't put a double charge of bluedot in there and are trying to ........beats me what your thinkin......but you don't have a leg to stand on. Thought you were more savvy....

Oscar,

this is getting ridiculous....

However, I know from seeing your posts on here over the years, know you are a pretty rational and sane guy...and not just a troll...

It can look fishy all it wants to...

However, the rifle already had a new barrel on order.. I am also exploring the world of switch barrels on my rifles after learning a lot about the ins and outs from a few of the local benchrest shooters at the range, plus several gunsmiths that I know personally... who are actually members of this website...and are respected by others on this location...

Yeah, I am guilty of not thinking straight after a kaboom and tossed the last 5 rounds in the box of 50 that the bad round came from....
But I haven't asked Black Hills for a darn thing anyway...

I am a handloader, so that automatically makes me guilty of getting a bad factory round, that it is really my fault, and am trying to pull a fast one????on the manufacture of the rifle and the ammo maker?

I called the ammo maker to let them know of the problem.. if they offered to make anything good, I guess I would entertain it... however, it is more of a courtesy, and letting them aware of a problem than anything....they see this all the time I am sure... I let them know right off, that I wasn't calling them to tell them they owed me something.. and I didn't tell Ruger, I wanted a new rifle FREE of CHARGE, either....I wanted a 75 cent part! Which I was more than happy to pay for!!!!

If I sent a item, any item, to the manufacturer for repair, I would expect them to ackknowledge receipt of the item, then send me a quote on it.. I'd make the decision if I thought it was worth it or not...NO ONE EVER ASKED RUGER FOR A FREE REPAIR OR A FREE RIFLE REPLACEMENT!!!!

Originally, all I wanted to do was get a 75 cent part that was bent....from them.. they are the one's that wanted the entire rifle sent back in...

And yeah it was apart, as the stock was broken and a friend who is a cabinet maker repaired it for me....

I put both the bolt from another Ruger 223 in the rifle with a different stock on it... and ran 50 rounds thru it.. then someone above brings out the point that they think that is unsafe and I should have used a go/nogo gauge before shooting it... DUH... did I need to say I did that, to head off someone trying to act like I was not knowing what I was doing???

I also put the barrel from that 223, on another Ruger that is chambered in 243, and took its barrel off... headspaced the bolt to the chamber with a round and verified it with the nogo/go gauge.. and then test fired that combo also....no problems...

Then I put the 243 back together...and headspaced it back with a Go/NOGO gauge again...

Actually, a fellow forum member who has responded on this thread, has been out hunting with me several times, even tho he lives 500 miles away.. he is also an engineer and a fellow gun enthusiast... He made me a wrench for taking barrels off of a firearm and both he and two other gunsmith friends showed me how to do it...and how to re install it.....

A lot of guys are sure starting to cast the accusational finger....

The last two were from Canada... One I respect his opinion, and his sincerity.. as I know him as a real practical guy, so I look at his input as a good source of questioning...

He was wrong on his assumptions... but I'd wonder the same thing in today's screwy world...

I am just going to ASSUME the other was asking a question in good faith.....


Ruger is going to send me back my action... they already told me so.. I declined their offer and they nor I have no hard feelings...

As a courtesy, I am going to send the box the ammo came from back to Black Hills... they can research it all they want...But it is just going to be for their QC Dept anyway...

if they want to reimburse me for the 75 cents and the $3.25 for the part that Ruger is now letting me order... like I wanted to do in the first place.... I'll take the big $4.00 and probably put it into my son's Boy Scout account...

As for the rifle.. it will have the bolt's part replaced...

It will have a new 204 barrel put on it, 26 inch, heavy sporter contour... which will be Parkerized....along with the action ( as I think it would look kinda cool)... and will probably also have a barrel in 17 Mach IV available as a switch barrel... ( head spaced with the appropriate Go/NOGO gauges, so no one in Canada will be worried about my safety down here in Oregon....

And the stock, will be a Boyd's thumbhole sporter in a Forest Camo Laminate... that I will finish myself...

And all of my Blue Dot loads for 223s, are saved for two Remington 223s I own, not this rifle anyway....after about 5,000 plus loads of the same thing.. 14.5 grains of Blue Dot and a 46 grain Winchester HP bullet ( which you can't double charge anyway)... I think the load is pretty darn safe...and those two rifles are dedicated to sage rat shooting and praire dog work, having 6 x 20 scopes on them, that are kinda spendy...

I think it is time to let this thread move to the Accurate Reloading Archives...

I know what I know, and when I don't then I am smart enough to ask someone who does, or know where to go to get someone to show me.. or pay them to do it for me, and then show me what they did...

Everyone is starting to think If you have a problem with a rifle.. you must personally be an idiot...and don't know jackshit.. and expect someone else to reimburse you for your screw ups....SHEESH!

This reminds me of a doctor with a flooded basement.

His yard was dug up for a long time and interceptor fields were put in at great inconvienence and cost.

His foundations was dug up and water proofed, again, trouble and money.

It still flooded.

Then some guy showed up to bid the next fix and pointed out that a downspout connection was loose. Water could be seen comming out of the pipe and going into the wall. The guy reached up and pushed the pipe connection back together. The basement never flooded again.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Oscar,


I put both the bolt from another Ruger 223 in the rifle with a different stock on it... and ran 50 rounds thru it.. then someone above brings out the point that they think that is unsafe and I should have used a go/nogo gauge before shooting it... DUH... did I need to say I did that, to head off someone trying to act like I was not knowing what I was doing???

I also put the barrel from that 223, on another Ruger that is chambered in 243, and took its barrel off... headspaced the bolt to the chamber with a round and verified it with the nogo/go gauge.. and then test fired that combo
also....no problems...



Then I put the 243 back together...and headspaced it back with a Go/NOGO gauge again...

A Go/No-go gauge does not exist. If you had ever done this job, you would know that TWO gauges are required, one is a GO gauge, the other is a NO-GO gauge. And all of those here who are not gunsmiths, and have Go/No-Gauge sets for their rifles, at over $100 per set, please raise your hands.......I didn't think so. I'm calling BS on this one!!!

Oh, and by the way, exactly what difference does it make if the last two were from Canada, from the USA, from Mexico, or from Cucamunga?

I think that you should take Ruger up on their offer. As I remember Ruger does not warranty any damage done through use of handloads or remanufactured ammo...I agree that remanufactured ammo is probably as good, and sometimes better, than factory, but it is their company and they make the rules. By buying that product you agree to play by those rules if you want to have things fixed under warranty.
I have had one pistol blow up on me, and it scared the living bejesus out of me. I would never take the chance of having that happen again if I could prevent it....Ruger may or may not have more information regarding "damage" to your action. To me, it just isn't worth it.
If I went after anyone, it would be the ammo manufacturer if indeed that was the cause of the problem. My reasoning on this? I will give my analogy...I buy a brand new Corvette. Put on some aftermarket tires that don't necessarily have the quality control of the original tires and that Chevrolet says not to use. Now, a tire blows and I trash part of my brand new Corvette. I don't go after Chevrolet to repair it do I? Of course not..I didn't follow the factory rules regarding care of my car.
Take the new rifle that Ruger is offering you, then sell it at a profit and buy what you want.

Ron;

For your reference sir...

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.as...FLE+HEADSPACE+GAUGES

I have access to these here...if it works with a go gauge,,then what does that tell me???


As far as where someone is from... yeah it doesn't matter....

But both were from Canada anyway....

Oscar, I respect his opinions from reading his postings for several years...

Above is your 29th post....

and you are already on here, calling Bullshit to people you don't even know...evidently looking for a scrap.. or a matching of wits...

try the political forum if that is what you are looking for.. you'll love the opportunities there for that some of crap...

It isn't the question that you asked, it was how it was asked....

I know several gunsmiths who have access to the stuff that I don't have or don't need to spend that kind of money on.. just to use once or twice...

But what you claim that doesn't exist in your post, I provided a link that states they do exist, you can buy them, and they are not a $100.00 or more as you claimed...( well maybe in Canuck money)... and FYI.. I am not a Canadian basher.. I have spent a lot of time in your country and was even employed by a Canadian company as a regional manager in the medical field for several years, covering the Pacific NW and Western Canada....I love Canada and most of the people I have met there...your government sucks, but then again, so does ours!!!

so call BS all you want, eh? still doesn't change the facts....

I don't profess to be a gunsmith.. but I have access to a few who teach me quite a bit, as I ask questions....

What are your credentials to support your expertise, questioning what I put forth? Like do you field strip your rifles' bolts? If you do and can, then you have some knowledge to back up what you say... but arm chair gunsmiths and arm chair ballistics 'experts' come and go on this forum like shit thru a goose...

I just think you are here to lock horns with someone...to burn off a little excess testosterone...but that is just my opinion..

you shared your opinion about me, so I will share my opinion about your post with you...

so cheers, and go have a beer, eh?

OK, just for my own edification, with out any criticism implied or intended.

What would cause the bending of part 48?
Could it be bent without the extractor going bush?
Lets not forget on this hypothetical mishap, the stock also cracked.

So what pressure are we looking at, and what may that have done to the action/bolt lugs.

(Given that this hypo. rifle may be one of those 'orrible cast things. )

Being a simple (some say simpleton) soul, I would have kept and inspected the case first up,
sent the box and spare rounds back, and kept one to pull. And after weighing the load I'd be asking what wt. the manafacturer thought was in it. They may even be able to determine if the case/brass was faulty?

Seafire,
What your link to the Brownell's page does is prove my statement above. Go back to the catalogue and read it. The Clymer Go gauge is marked with a geen ring. The Clymer No-Go gauge is marked with a red ring. You need both to make a set, at $30 each, plus shipping, plus exise taxes for us, which comes to just on $100 as I stated. And yes, I AM a gunsmith, part-time. I build double rifles, for myself, as a hobby. I have an account with Brownell's where I spend several thousand dollars a year. You ask above, "if it closes on a Go gauge, what does that tell me?" What that tells you is that there is enough headspace to chamber a re-sized round. It doesn't tell you how much headpace. The rifle could have a foot of headspace. You also have to ensure that the bolt will not close on a No-Go gauge.If it will, then you are going to need a FIELD gauge to tell whether the rifle is safe to use. And field-stripping a bolt proves nothing. Anybody with a copy of "Bolt-Action Rifles" can do the job in 30 seconds. And you, my friend, are digging yourself a hole which you soon won't be able to climb out of!

Well Ron, you validated your credentials honorably.. So I have no doubt about your knowledge or your opinions...A little search of the few posts that you do have exhibit your credentials superbly...

As I also see you are a 63 yr old gentleman, not a 30 year old know it all...so you have my respect...

However, I stand by what I said, and I am not digging any sort of hole whatsoever...

besides, it is my rifle, not yours.... so your safety isn't a concern.. and I am comfortable with mine....

as one gent's signature line on here says.. arguing on the internet is kinda like competing in the the special olympics...

Just like I can honor Oscar's opinions, even if they differ from some of mine....

Spend some time in here and share you knowledge with others....

As I said, I have access to several gunsmith's.. full time ones.. and they will check out the action when it gets back here.....

So lets quit matching words....I have nothing to hide and have been relatively open here...

I am not looking for anything from the manufacturers of either the rifle or the ammo...as I have had to point out a dozen times here, due to trolls or people who don't read the entire post...just part of it..


I'll will look forward to reading your posts, and maybe learning a thing or two if you care to share... but I let go of what people think of me, running my life, a long time ago..I am not out to pick fights with others....and really won't waste time engaging in them usually...

Seafire,

You have my respect! I have never met you but the way you have handled this and the posters on this thread is very admirable.

I don't post much but am always reading. I learn a lot and can usually figure out who the trouble makers are very quickly. Again, thank you for the way you have handled this in a sue happy society!! That is why the cost of so many things has gone through the roof. I also fly and the cost of aircraft stuff is nuts because of sue happy people. If you looked at some of the cases that have been won against aircraft manufacturers you wonder what ever happened to common sense. Ant then you realize why most companies out there do things the way they do.

Keith

Seafire, just read my post over and have to admit it was sarcastic and rude. I apologise for that. Was just thinking about it from a cynical point of view that the guys at ruger/blackhills might see it as someone wanting something for nothing kind of thing. I know from your posts over the years here that your far more honorable than that.

This thread has had 1426 views.

Given what Ruger pays for adds that are ignored, Ruger should have given Seafire a new extractor collar and some high level schmoozing.

quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Makonka:
Seafire, just read my post over and have to admit it was sarcastic and rude. I apologise for that. Was just thinking about it from a cynical point of view that the guys at ruger/blackhills might see it as someone wanting something for nothing kind of thing. I know from your posts over the years here that your far more honorable than that.

Thanks Oscar...

It didn't sound like your normal gentlemanly self....No harm done whatsoever...

Besides if most of us are going to hold out for a free lunch... I would make it for more than a 75 cent part! Plus I have owned about 20 different Ruger rifles...

Even if they were wanting to scrap the action, and it was for a legitimate reason, instead of just "lawyer policies"... I would have been completely happy with them replacing it with another action body off of the scrap heap, where they had junked another rifle... as long as the action body was good...

And don't let anyone know I am "honourable"... it might ruin my already stellar negative reputation with a few people on here...

cheers up north there, eh?
seafire

quote:

Given what Ruger pays for adds that are ignored, Ruger should have given Seafire a new extractor collar and some high level schmoozing.

Actually, sending me back my action, and skipping the shipping and handling charge of $3.50.. and let me buy the part for 75 cents... would be just fine...

then I can get on with life....but all of this is having a positive outlook....

The action with a new pair of 26 inch, heavy sporter barrels in 204 and 17 Mach IV, all with a Parkerized finish, and maybe a Forest Camo thumbhole stock from Boyd's... might look pretty cool when we go to shoot some sage rats in the spring over by Klamath Falls or Lakeview....

I was checking out one of those new Nikon Buckmaster scopes in 4.5 x 14 with the BDC reticle also... that is probably going to be sitting on top of the rifle....

see every cloud does have a silver lining...

quote:

Originally posted by WWhunter:
I learn a lot and can usually figure out who the trouble makers are very quickly. Again, thank you for the way you have handled this in a sue happy society!!

Just a couple of things Keith.

One is that we were asked for our opinions.
Two is that I am really only interested on what ACTUALLY CAUSED the problem. Couldn't care less who sues who. Maybe it was the ammo, but what if it wasn't?
Don't YOU want to know exactly how it happened or are you just going to grab your Ruger, some Blackhills ammo and not even think about it.

Seafire -

I hope you get your rifle back with no problems. I just posted what my experience was, because I did NOT get my guns back. I got replacements, but I hadn't WANTED replacements. When it turned out they couldn't repair mine, they offered to replace them, and I tried to decline, just as you are electing to do. I even offered to give them written letters saying that I understood the guns were not safe to fire and certifying that I would just hang them on the wall as part of my collection and never try to shoot them. I would also give them a statement holding them harmless from any future use of those two specific guns. No dice.

As it is only a small, non safety-related part of yours that is damaged, you may well get yours back. I certainly hope so.

Actually, one of mine was also safe to shoot...the problem was that sometimes it would shoot and other times it wouldn't, in seeming random order, and no one could figure out why. Didn't matter, I still didn't get it back, though I did receive a replacement.

Anyway, best of luck, and best wishes.

thanks AC!

cheers
seafire

Today I learned: Do not send a gun back to Ruger.