I have been interested in a cool Mauser in 375 or maybe 416, 404 for quite a while. A modest power DG African rifle. This one is very close to perfect as near as I can tell. Any idea what it would take to duplicte on a first quality modern Mauser action? No engraving except for stippling on appropriate metal spots.

josh

There's a lot of open ground in your question. But figure that for a GMA, Prechtl, or Satterlee, Mauser your just in the door for $3-$4K; before any work has even started! I have no idea who built that rifle but I'd wager that even without the engraving you are still at or over $10K for metal and stock work.

I would venture a guess of between $12K-$14K figuring modest engraving and a well known builder, parts included with the exception of the stock blank.

Now that's just a guess

Terry

Judging by the safety, this is pretty recent rifle. Why don't you contact the builder and get it "right on the nose", extended tangs and all.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Judging by the safety, this is pretty recent rifle. Why don't you contact the builder and get it "right on the nose", extended tangs and all.

Any idea whose safety that is? It is quite unique.

Looks like a Recknagel ERA to me?

I'll agree with Oz as I have that style on a 98 Mauser. It came from NECG via Recknagel.

Bob

if the question is "what would it cost to have a first quality MAUSER without engraving?" then I suggest you goto www.empirerifles.com and talk to george about what you consider to be a perfect mauser .. if its claw mounts and a 3 position safety, sur eenough... and without engraving, you will have a HARD time spending more than 9k

Actually this rifle is for sale. It is a Perugini and Visini and I think it is listed at about 25K, which I consider to be pretty reasonable considering the embellishment.

For some reason I really like the front claw mount out on the barrel rib. It would be very nice with a DG scope like a S&B or Zeiss low power without an objective bell.

The iron sights are just as would expect, multiple leaves with gold markings and a front sight like an H&H.

I really like the package on this rifle but don't need the extra 10K of embellishments.

I am seriously thinking about commissioning a very similar rifle, probably in 375, on a two or three year schedule.

I am sorely tempted just to buy this rifle, but in this price range it needs to be very carefully fitted to me.

I recently killed a bull elephant with a Searcy in 375 flanged and it was the best experience of my life, but I want a bolt for back-up and other tasks.

The one pictured is just about the closest I have ever seen to what I want.

What would be the best action if I ignored cost (big if). Hartmann and Weiss, Johannson?

josh

I forgot, the extended tangs are not negotiable. They must be on the rifle I have built.

josh

In the USA, we have pretty damn fine action makers..i.e. Satterlee and GMA. Not to say that the Eurpoean mfgs are not first rate.

Duane, I agree that the europeans don't have anyting over the US when it comes to modern mauser actions. I don't have a frame of reference for any of them frankly. Just basic "B" type pre-war mausers.

What is your experience on delivery times for these two makers action makers? While I am at it, how booked up are you? I'd be lying if I said you have not crossed my mind on this project. Ralf Martini is as close to a go-to gunsmith as I have for expensive rifles. I know he can build it, but he seems to be so far behind that I doubt 3 years would cover it.

My guess on price is $15,000 with no glass or case.

3K action
2k barrel machine work
3K stock blank
4K for a varsity level stocker
3K final assembly, basic engraving, etc

I miss anyting?


josh

yeh, maybe the cost of extended tang(s) and the required proper finish work for an GMA receiver.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Duane, I agree that the europeans don't have anyting over the US when it comes to modern mauser actions. I don't have a frame of reference for any of them frankly. Just basic "B" type pre-war mausers.

What is your experience on delivery times for these two makers action makers? While I am at it, how booked up are you? I'd be lying if I said you have not crossed my mind on this project. Ralf Martini is as close to a go-to gunsmith as I have for expensive rifles. I know he can build it, but he seems to be so far behind that I doubt 3 years would cover it.

My guess on price is $15,000 with no glass or case.

3K action
2k barrel machine work
3K stock blank
4K for a varsity level stocker
3K final assembly, basic engraving, etc

I miss anyting?


josh

I think GMA runs about 6 to 9 months.

Stuart Satterlee is 2 years plus in my experience so far.

The difference between the two? the Satterlee is "feeds like ball bearings" to quote a forum member. The GMA will require more work to get to that point.

I have two magnum mauser actions being built by Satterlee. The barrel blanks have been ordered from Krieger and are on schedule to have the integral barreled actions done in late Febuary. I can't wait.

Duane Wiebe is currently building a 375H&H for me on a Mauser Chilean action....it will be similar to the one in your picture (integral q-rib, claw mounts, etc.). However, mine won't have extended tangs or..........all of the scribbling all over it

And Duane's claw mounts are a lot nicer than those shown.

Jeez, those are cool pictures Steve. I might consider ordering directly from P&V but the way our precious government has been printing money lately I figured the exchange rate would make it insane expensive.

By the way, should I ever get to meet you in person at ACGG, SCI shows etc., I owe you a few beers and a big prime rib for all the time you took helping me with decisions on my Martini & Hagn 300 single shot. Its been to Africa twice now and has killed a train car load of animals.

I liked it so well that when this rifle came through Ralf's shop a couple of months ago, I had to have it. It should be in hand next week.

thanks,
josh

Thanks for those photos. I really enjoy seeing them.

Not that I have anything whatsoever against Italy (I have been there a few times and the people are great and the food is fabulous) but what I do not understand is why an American should have to import an action made basically by (in today's standards) crude machines when we have so many very fine gunmakers in this country who have the same machines and equal talent.

What is the real problem?

22WRF, I didn't realize there was a problem. I may use a domestic maker and action, I may us a Canadian/German maker and a German action, I might use a German maker and a German action, or I might use the Italians.

Who cares? If I can get the quality of work I want in a timely manner, I'd prefer to deal in the U.S. just not to go through importation.

Idunno.

josh

Steve, Does Walmart carry those?

See you in Reno this year?

" does walmart carry those"?

that's funny, right there!


that stuff sure is beutiful!....i love singles.

Now that's Italian. I can smell the pasta from here, beautiful rifles also.

quote:

What is the real problem?

American makers fakers like W.F.Hein.

SDH

I have heard of Fred Wells, and his wife Rachel the engraver, who I believe also instructed at Yavapi Junior College in their gunsmithing program.

My point is this. If there is a demand for these actions it would seem that somebody should be able to step up and produce them here at a price and in a quantity that they are readily available to those who would purchase them.

For example, I read on these gunsmithing threads that the BRNO 21 and 47 actions are still very popular to the point where folks will pay three or four times what they originally cost. It seems to me that there should be someone here who steps up and meets that demand.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
SDH

I have heard of Fred Wells, and his wife Rachel the engraver, who I believe also instructed at Yavapi Junior College in their gunsmithing program.

My point is this. If there is a demand for these actions it would seem that somebody should be able to step up and produce them here at a price and in a quantity that they are readily available to those who would purchase them.

For example, I read on these gunsmithing threads that the BRNO 21 and 47 actions are still very popular to the point where folks will pay three or four times what they originally cost. Why doesn't somebody here produce such an action?

easier said than done.

quote:

easier said than done.

I disagree. There are a lot of very talented folks, many who post here, that could get it done without much difficulty. If it can be done in Italy it can be done here.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

easier said than done.

I disagree. There are a lot of very talented folks, many who post here, that could get it done without much difficulty. If it can be done in Italy it can be done here.

There's always Montana Rifle Co. But if your talking "perfect" here and a large ring magnum action, you have two choices.

These actions at this level of art will always be expensive and rare.

I think they are expensive because they are rare! If somebody would make a few they wouldn't be rare and would be within the reach of folks who would like to buy one.

I think a lotta folks who are buying the expensive ones now would turn their noses up at an action that was available to everyone.

Witness the Ruger No 1, a fantastically strong, inexpensive, beautifully elegant and ergonomic action VERY reminiscent of various British actions. You'd think that the market for custom single shot actions would have virtualy dried up after the Ruger came out, but it didn't.

Why? Precisely BECAUSE the No 1 was so inexpensive and thus available to everyone!

After all, we can't expect such SPECIAL people to use the same action that any Bubba can use, now can we?(sarcastic tone) I mean, how can we expect those rich folks to even CONSIDER such a common and inexpensive item? Why, if they used such a readily-available item, well, how would the rest of us possibly know that they were really such SPECIAL people?

Of course my sarcasm is extreme, but you can see my point. The flashy nouveau-riche group that festoons themselves with expensive girly jewelry like gold chains and diamond Rolexes will ALWAYS opt for the more-expensive action simply because of their fixation on The Doctrine of Conspicuous Consumption. Yes, a new magnum-length bolt action would be a splendid addition to our current selection but don't expect the flashy dogs to stop using the high-dollar ones.
Regards, Joe

That is, sadly, so true and it is a real pizzoff as it has increased the price of "beater" 21 and 47 Brnos to the point where it is dammed difficult to find one.

These ARE simply superb actions for HUNTING rifles and now, every swingin' dik and his brother wants one, because they are RARE. Too bad, as they should be used by hunters and bush people, as intended, not festoon the walls of the "dens" of rich candyazzed "collectors" and, worse, "investors".

I hate to sound trite but the truth is, the perfect Mauser is always the next one you want.

Wow, it sounds like the rifle action police are ready to pounce on anyone that doesn't purchase the right rifle for the right reason.

I am surprised, I learned that it was the height of arrogance for one man to be running on about another man's decisions.

I certainly hope that when I get this rifle built that I have bought the correct rifle action from the correct country. I suppose we'll have to stock it with plain wood in a factory pattern at factory dimensions. I forget, do we have to put Weaver bases and rings on it or will we be permitted to step up to the Leupolds with windage? Obviously Leupold is the only scope permitted.

Come on guys, get real. Some of us like really nice rifles. Who cares?

You take yourselves too seriously.

I dunno.

josh

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dewey:
That is, sadly, so true and it is a real pizzoff as it has increased the price of "beater" 21 and 47 Brnos to the point where it is dammed difficult to find one. /QUOTE]

I seem to recall from my economics courses that demand in search of supply equals opportunity.

For the dreamers and appreciaters among us.

Considering the hrs,relatively rare accumulated skills and machinery investment it takes produce a fine mauser, current new receiver prices are not unreasonable.
Its not as simple as just producing alot more to reduce per unit costs to make them available to more people.
High quality, well fitting and functioning complex features will always take a certain amount of time and money,..and its unreasonable to expect cottage industry action makers to produce and outlay for high number receiver runs.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Considering the hrs,relatively rare accumulated skills and machinery investment it takes produce a fine mauser, current new receiver prices are not unreasonable.
Its not as simple as just producing alot more to reduce per unit costs to make them available to more people.
High quality, well fitting and functioning complex features will always take a certain amount of time and money,..and its unreasonable to expect cottage industry action makers to produce and outlay for high number receiver runs.

+1. Produce a lot and pay less gives you Savage, Remington, WInchester, S&W et al. Fine tools in their own right but not in the catagory of custom classics.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Wow, it sounds like the rifle action police are ready to pounce on anyone that doesn't purchase the right rifle for the right reason.

I am surprised, I learned that it was the height of arrogance for one man to be running on about another man's decisions.

I certainly hope that when I get this rifle built that I have bought the correct rifle action from the correct country. I suppose we'll have to stock it with plain wood in a factory pattern at factory dimensions. I forget, do we have to put Weaver bases and rings on it or will we be permitted to step up to the Leupolds with windage? Obviously Leupold is the only scope permitted.

Come on guys, get real. Some of us like really nice rifles. Who cares?

You take yourselves too seriously.

I dunno.

josh

By what 22WRF has written, I'd have to say that he is a Progressive Democrat. Josh shame on you for wanting a fine firearm that is also a piece of art. The people demand that you use the same plain jane vanilla guns that everyone else uses, (or at least 22WRF does). People just don't get it that when you are talking about hand crafted works of art you are going to pay a premium. That is why I got out of doing leathercraft years ago. To spend the time to hand tool and hand stain and paint a belt, purse or wallet just to have buttheads tell me they can buy it at the whatever store for half the price. I told one lady to go buy it at the store and get half the quality as well.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
+1. Produce a lot and pay less gives you Savage, Remington, WInchester, S&W et al. Fine tools in their own right but not in the catagory of custom classics.

The problem is some folk [pen pushing paper shufflers?]dont know the difference between lopping off & drilling 1000 sections of waterpipe[then calling it an 700action]...as opposed to whats involved in producing a run of handmade authentic copies of Michael Angelos' Statue of David.

In my mind if a bog standard 1909 Argentine is and was good enough for Holland's and Purdey it'll do for me!

But if I wanted "Magnum"? I'd get probably the finest mass produced Mauser "type" action for its price. BRNO's ZKK 602 or CZ's 550.

Why pay more on what's there and CHEAP? BRNO were doing integral 'scope rails on all their ZKK series thirty years ago!

quote:

Originally posted by thndrchiken:

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Wow, it sounds like the rifle action police are ready to pounce on anyone that doesn't purchase the right rifle for the right reason.

I am surprised, I learned that it was the height of arrogance for one man to be running on about another man's decisions.

I certainly hope that when I get this rifle built that I have bought the correct rifle action from the correct country. I suppose we'll have to stock it with plain wood in a factory pattern at factory dimensions. I forget, do we have to put Weaver bases and rings on it or will we be permitted to step up to the Leupolds with windage? Obviously Leupold is the only scope permitted.

Come on guys, get real. Some of us like really nice rifles. Who cares?

You take yourselves too seriously.

I dunno.

josh

By what 22WRF has written, I'd have to say that he is a Progressive Democrat. Josh shame on you for wanting a fine firearm that is also a piece of art. The people demand that you use the same plain jane vanilla guns that everyone else uses, (or at least 22WRF does). People just don't get it that when you are talking about hand crafted works of art you are going to pay a premium. That is why I got out of doing leathercraft years ago. To spend the time to hand tool and hand stain and paint a belt, purse or wallet just to have buttheads tell me they can buy it at the whatever store for half the price. I told one lady to go buy it at the store and get half the quality as well.

Far from it. I have never voted Democratic in my life.

All I am saying is this. If a guy can do this with regular tools

http://forums.accuratereloadin...804/m/3761057511/p/1

then certainly somebody can build a good quality mauser action similar to a 21 or 47 BRNO for a reasonable price.