quote:

Originally posted by yahoo:
Thanks for the information. I dont think the gunsmith would sell the rifle cheap and try to sue me. I believe he is incompetent but I dont think he is willing to do anything like that. If it did come down to that, The only real paper evidence is that I bought a rifle from him on the 13th, returned it the next morning and stopped payment on the check. He has no evidence that that rifle was made for me at all. It might as well be a mossberg off the shelf. So at the worst, Im out 1400 and he might lose money too, though he could probably resell the parts to some buddy, or fool.

Somewhere in his bound book is the transfer of the receiver with the serial number, the date it was transferred, and reference to your 4473 form as the recipient of that serial numbered receiver. If done as required, there is always a paper trail on any firearm that has passed through his business.

Yahoo, In the back and fourth with Rick (alway's fun) something got lost in the thread. I still think your best bet is to have a sit down with this guy and try to work things out.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Yahoo, In the back and fourth with Rick (alway's fun) something got lost in the thread. I still think your best bet is to have a sit down with this guy and try to work things out.

Terry

Terry,

I enjoyed it also......and about three or four of us suggested that from the start.

I have been listening, and I will talk with the gunsmith. I wanted to know what outcome others would consider fair and get opinions. I didnt want to make totally unreasonable demands. I am not going to call a lawyer or threaten any legal action, nor am I going to try to advertise this mans mistakes and try to ruin him. But if I have any legal rights I wanted to know. And if there was any way he could turn on me with legal action I wanted to know before I talked with him in case he is meaner than I thought. Thanks so much for the information, it helped me get an idea of what to discuss with the gunsmith.

I have yet to meet a Gunsmith other than Kenny Jarette (born rich) who was not "Judgement Proof". If you can't solve with a rational discussion, I'd try a small clams court where the judgements are capped between $2,000 and 5,000.No lawyers and the same chance of collecting.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Yahoo,

When you filled out the BATF form and dated it, that must be submitted the day it was dated. If the smith let you walk out his door with that action, and the transaction wasn't called in he is in violation of BATF regs.

correction: in Texas, and I belive all states with concealed carry, a CHL obviates the requirement to call the NICS in, to the FBI (not the aff)

quote:

THe action at this point is all being discussed, that is what was required to be transfered.

So based on what I understand from your posts above, you are in fact the owner. And he has the ability to place a mechanics lean on your rifle ( He figures you owe him money ).

You mean a labour lein, not a mechanics lein, as that only applies to vehciles, with a very special set of laws, like recovery. A labour lein is not subject to the conditions of the mechanics lein, like repossion, and 90days/transfer of ownership. Larbour leins are writs of attachment, which mean that IF the item is sold, the lein holder must either be paid prior to sale or paid first

quote:

I like Rick see you as honest but naive in this. From what you have described I would pay the guy the balance in cash, take the rifle in your possesion, and either chaulk it up to one of lifes experiences, or pursue this in court later. Get the rifle back though, right now you have tipped the cards all in the smiths favor.

Edit to fix unclear.

I see him as honest and trusting.. but didn't communicate his wants clearly. I recently started work on a commissioned rifle, for a good friend. We put together a spreadsheet of every item, (i think we missed action screws being specified), discussed back and forth, changed an item here or there, and then both agreed on it.. and we both kept it...

when an item changed, we called and talked about it.


Does that mean my friend doesn't trust me, or I don't trust him? Nope.. means that there is lots of details and we wanted to make sure he got what he wanted, and I only did the work he wanted, rather than having to do it again.


So Yahoo..
Here's what *I* would do... If the guy doesn't shoot you when you walk in...

1: go over to the bank and get the $500 in 20s.

2: go over to the gun shop, with my list of "incorrect" items, and a list of what these "cost" to fix

3: walk in.. tell him you have cash, ask if he as fixed errors in the rifle (important to NOT say "his mistakes"

4a if he's fixed them.. had him 1/2 the money., inspect the rifle, hand him the other half and walk away. being polite

4b if not, ask him if he would like to talk about this.. that you made a hothead misstake, etc

5: inspect rifle.. determine if the warrenty fixes are in the same cash range as the 500...

6: ask him if he is willing to do a warrenty repair, after he agrees to the "costs" of those repairs

7: his answer actually doesn't matter.. if he'll fix it, then take the rifle fixed. if he won't , give him the rest of the money, but demand a receipt

8: walk out with the rifle.. thank him.. and leave

you could take him to small claims court for the difference...


BTW, he can NOT sell a rifle as "abandoned" as it is not his (look at his book) and there wasn't a transfer too.


yahoo,
you kind screwed up, he kinda screwed up, and you are out cash and a rifle.. you have a better chance of recovering the rifle.. get one, count it as a bad experience that will give you better judgement

jeffe

What all was wrong with the rifle in the first place?

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
What all was wrong with the rifle in the first place?

Doug,

He was having one built from scratch and he posted the problems that he found when he checked the completed rifle out. Some mechanical, some aesthetic or just sloppy. I think his problem was what he had in his hands didn’t reflect a $3,000.00 plus “custom rifle.â€

It’s been pretty well established that neither gunsmith or customer went about this whole thing in the best/smartest of ways, and now the customer is trying to figure out a way to make a “reasonable†settlement with the smith that can get him at least some of his money back and let the smith keep the rifle.

No easy answers here that I can see, short of a duel of some sort!

Got it.

Hi guys, thanks for all the information. I still have not attempted to talk with the gunsmith. I havent decided what to tell him and I am afraid that the conversation will go like it did the last time, me getting very frustrated and probably rude and the gunsmith talking in circles and not apologising or even acnowleging flaws. I am thinking perhaps email would be easier for both of us to remain composed and we can both have a record of what has been said. even if he wont compromise, I dont want to leave this issue as it is because its depressing and embarassing.

quote:

Originally posted by yahoo:
Hi guys, thanks for all the information. I still have not attempted to talk with the gunsmith. I havent decided what to tell him and I am afraid that the conversation will go like it did the last time, me getting very frustrated and probably rude and the gunsmith talking in circles and not apologising or even acnowleging flaws. I am thinking perhaps email would be easier for both of us to remain composed and we can both have a record of what has been said. even if he wont compromise, I dont want to leave this issue as it is because its depressing and embarassing.

yahoo,

Trust me on this...the written word is seldom a good form of communication because you lose an awful lot when you cannot see facial expressions, body language, and hear the tone of voice being used.

If you think this guy is going to admit to shoddy work (especially in writing) and offer to give you some of your money back you are dreaming...ain’t gonna happen. Ask yourself why he would do that. Not why YOU would do it if the situation was reversed, but why HE would do that, especially based on what he has already shown you in regards to his honesty and business ethics.

If you are concerned about a written record you must have at least some thought in your mind about a legal resolution to your problem...and ultimately that may be your only practical recourse.

You’ve already stated that you don’t want the rifle under any circumstances, so where does that leave you? You want some of your money back, and he is going to claim that your down payment didn’t even cover the cost of the parts, let alone the work, and he is also going to claim that he will have trouble selling it because the parts and configuration that you specified are not what his “normal†customers would want.

You know that’s BS...and so do I...but try to prove that to a judge in a small claims court who knows nothing about rifles.

Maybe its time to consider cutting your losses and moving on as a hopefully wiser man.

yahoo, it might be best to write it all out and send him a letter. Explain what you consider flaws and what you feel needs to be fixed. It is a lot easier to keep your cool on paper. Send it registered and see if he responds and then go from there.