Forrest
I've talked to a company that does this laser digitizing and they said it would run around $500 to $800 to get me a solid model that I could run through a CAM system and cut on my CNC. They said it takes a long time to set up and just seconds to digitize it. Then they crunch all the data and send you whatever kind of fine your software will work with. This digitizing took me 14 hours to just get the raw #s "point cloud" when I digitized my patterns company "X".... Then they came out with a video and gave the credit for the patterns to the owner. Another reason why I want to work for myself. No glory hounds sucking up all the stardust.

That laser digitizing will find it's way into this industry. Even If I'm one of the first ones to fork over the cash. My problem with the cash thing is I can buy a used older style Renishaw digitizing probe for the same money it would take to get just one pattern lasered.

gunmaker

gunmaker,
If you sent the laser digitalization company 20 stocks at one time, do you think they could deliver models for $250 each? If so, you could have a sizeable digital library of stock patterns for a total investment of $5000. The next step is to license individual copies of the stocks for a fee. The business model is similar to what the lasik software guys are doing (license the use of the software one patient at a time).

Another business angle is to pay stockmakers a one-time fee for their stock designs or enter into some type of revenue sharing arrangement with them for specific patterns that you'll digitize and sell.

Should I start preparing the partnership agreement?

You guys are nuts if you think that a laser-digitized-CNC -whooptydo can ever replace handwork. Sure, I'm impressed with gunmaker's digital stock carving, and I do believe that stocks can be duplicated to an astounding degree of accuracy. I've had patterns run for many years.
BUT, find me some machine operator that can make the master pattern. Find me a machine that can cut square corners.
But show me who can design and make this custom rifle by machine, and I'll quit.

Albiet a small place, there will always be a place for one-off custom guns.
Who are they going to copy??????
The very best work is in the head,the hands and in the heart. Original work cannot be duplicated.
SDH

Dakota Arms has had digital guns since 1994. That technology is nothing new. All it does is replace the manual duplicator with a cnc vmc and the hand work begins at the same place. To do it right one needs a vmc with at least a 10k rpm spindle in it otherwise its just a fancy wood plow. The D/A manual spindle runs at 14k rpm with a cheap Milwakee router motor. Dakota is makeing 500 rifles a year, that boils down to $75,000 a year in machine time to run stocks and that doesn't even begin to touch the price of the wood. So a guy goes out a buys a new vmc and gets it all set up to run cnc semi inlets, lets say he's into it for a 100k and then the set up time begins, and has 500 semis to run on the customers wood, this is a dream and dreams are free so we'll dream big as it doesn't cost any more than small dreams. 500 semis at $200 a pop in the customers wood would pay for the machine in a year, the opperator gets no part of the 200 per semi, thats assumeing one will have 500 to make a year at 9.6 stocks a week. So the opperator says he doesn't like not getting paid so the semi is 275 per in customers wood and the whole thing goes full circle back to the manual duplicator. The would be entraprenuer crunches this numbers and says a used machine is the way to go at say 50k for a machine that is probably worth a shit but still no gaurantee. Then 250 semis a year at 275 a pop is the question, still competeing with the manual. Next question is how many times a year can you sell the same shape in the custom market? 10 times? 20? 50? 75? even at 100 it won't even pay for itself. Why does does Dakota have this capability you ask? To rip out 500 stocks a year thats 10 plus a week when you throw in holidays and whatever else. Does it work for them? yes it does. why? same guns day in day out. Would that be an accurate discription of the custom market? no. Would that be an accurate discription of the production rifle market? you bet.
Timan

SDK,
no offense, but you aren't up on what new machines and cam software can do. Your complaint is actually about the master... which we'll call a prototype.. prototypes are ALWAYS an investment...

but, heck, if you have 10 patterns digitized, and are a good cam operator, you can build inletting for the various actions, and deliver (call it 5 actions) 50 base line patterns, and an nearly infinate number number of derivatives (LOP, cheek piece, forearm, etc)

heck, you can all but sand them in a "cheap" 4axis machine.. and once the grip and forearm are in a good state, you can checker... probably from the exact same setup, on a cnc machine..

how do you make 90degree corners? you decide if it's cost effective to run a mortise chisel in the cnc (spindle locked for spin and indexed, Z pumps up and down) or have a guy with a chisel hit them on the way out the door.

Bill,
If i had your skill I would start in the small world... I would guess (total guess) that there's 50 time more jobs for a 250$ checkering than a $500 one. Sherry is covered up in them. Yes, you are a guild level craftsman.. and when someone wants a guild rifle, you have a standing rule that they can be bumped up in the job stream... but not everyone can afford one.

Myself, I would rather turn 10 stocks a week for 100 bucks on my manual duplicator than 2 for 300

jeffe

SDH

Beautiful work, as usual. But I am curious about something.

Now that you have completed that beautiful work of both function and art, who owns the shape of that stock and the shape of that barrel.

In other words, if I went to the current owner of that rifle and said to him, "I want one just exactly like it" and he said " well, you gotto run over to Livingston and talk to SDH" and I said "well, I would love to do that but my wallet is a bit thin right now, hows about you loaning me the rifle for a few weeks and I will bring it back to you in pretty good shape and I will give you a couple hundred bucks to make it worth your while".

Then, I take the barrel off, send it to a barrel guy and have him duplicate it exactly, and I send the stock over to Jeffe and have him duplicate it exactly. I put the whole thing back together and give it back to its owner. then I take the duplicated parts and put them on an action that I have laying around.

I certainly don't plan on doing such a thing. But my question is, that would certainly be legal would it not?

SDH, I've got a safe full of guns that show I'm in full agreement with your sentiments about the inability of a machine to fully replace hand work. I think we're speaking about moving the bar for the average guy who wants a custom duplicated stock but can't afford a full-custom job. There's going to be quantum leap in the quality of duplicated stocks because of advances in all that digital whooptydo.

Instead of having a room full of templates (that takes years to collect) a CNC duplicator will have a disk with digital files for dozens of outside profiles and scores of inletting profiles. The files can be combined in any number of combinations to suit a customer's needs. It's going to be pretty cool.

Dakota is a good example. They aren't building full-custom rifles, but are doing a good job satisfying some with semi-custom guns. However, if I want a Mannlicher stocked short-action Dakota, I'm out of luck. The day may come that I'll be able to send Dakota a digital file that contains the outside dimensions of a Mannlicher stock I already own, Dakota combines that with their own digital file of the inletting and they be able to turn out just the stock I want. Will it be full-custom perfection? No, but it might cost me $4K instead of $14K.

It's not going to impact the very high-end of the custom market, except that you'll have available much better patterns to start with if you choose to go that route.

Now, what about the stockmaker with the talent to turn out beautiful master patterns? He'll be in the position of being able to sell that pattern over and over again (for lesser amounts) in addition to selling it to the high-end collector just once. Duane Wiebe did the stock design for the original Kimber rifles and for the Sako Safari Grade. I own examples of both rifles and I told him they look like shit compared to his handwork. He agreed, but pointed out dozens of subtle changes that have to be made so that the stocks could efficiently be run on duplicating machines; coupled with the fact that a committee was assembled to "improve" his overall stock design. New machines have far fewer limitations, but it's still up to the companies to keep the committees at bay

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

Now that you have completed that beautiful work of both function and art, who owns the shape of that stock and the shape of that barrel.

I won't speak for SDH, and I'd love to hear his opinion on this. The way I see it, you've asked the $64,000 question. It's a matter of intellectual property rights. It's somewhat different in each country, but mostly similar for things like artwork.

If you own an original painting unencumbered by an prior agreement with the artist, can you have it reproduced with the artist having no economic interest in what you do with the copies? Take Ted Blackburn for example, he's filed a copyright on the design of his bottom metal. It's an attempt to prevent others from copying and selling copies. Of course, his copyright is open to challenge and it would be up to him to prove its validity.

I have a Don Klein singleshot in my safe. Don has a very distinctive style but has never tried to copyright it, probably never thought about it and its open to question whether such subltle design traits could be copyrighted. Is there anything that prevents me from having this stock copied for my own use? Probably not. Is there anything that prevents me from selling the design to another? Maybe not. It's not something either Don or I contemplated when I commissioned the rifle, but where do we stand now? Where do we stand if Don and I are gone and my kids decide to sell the design rights to the rifle? His estate would otherwise retain an interest in his designs if he were to copyright them and enforce it. Can he get a copyright on his design now that there are several of his stocks in the hands of others with no prior restrictions on sale of the design rights? This is why the IP lawyers are doing so well right now.

We may soon see purchase agreements for custom guns that spell out whether the design rights rest with the buyer or the seller.

Artists of all types have become increasingly concerned with the intellectual property rights of their creations and have contracts and papertrails that protect those rights. Gunmakers should well do the same.

quote:

intellectual property rights vs work for hire

It's assumed that unless a contract exists assigning rights to the craftsman, the buyer of the object has bought that person's time to creates the BUYERS property.

hope this doesn't bust anyone's bubble.. but when a programmer does work for hire, they USUALLY don't have any rights to the code.. in fact, they can actaully be on the hook for reusing it.

if you pay for a thing to be created, you own the thing, generally, unless specifically IDed in the beginning..


jeffe

Do I need to start adding a circle C to my engraving designs?

I say that in jest. But, I have seen an engraving design or two that I have done copied. I have also seen stock patterns duplicated. It's pretty easy to do if you have the original in hand. They never add up to the original artisan's work. Frankly, if the copiers had any talent they would be producing their own work and not copying someone else's.

Having said that, it takes years to learn how to design an aesthetic engraving pattern. Even longer to develope a stock shape that is original to the designer. As it is now, with a duplicator, the original is going to be screwed up by running the stylus all over the outside of it. God help us when it is economically feasable to just digitize the thing. Surely, there is some protection from somebody just stealing the design.

Jeffe:

I think it's a bit different when design work is done for an employer. They own your design, not you. I don't think it's legal for someone to commision a painting then start selling prints off of it. The same, I should think would apply to gunwork.

For photographs, the © remains with the photographer UNLESS THE WRITTEN CONTRACT PASSES THEM TO THE CLIENT.

The © was intended to protect the artist.

What I'm saying is that you can hire me to make photographs, pay for the film and processing, and the © is still mine.

Unless the contract states otherwise.

flaco

Perhaps someone could explain what features would qualify a wooden rifle stock for a copyright?

Apples & Oranges.
The hypothetical isn't within the realm of current possibility. There is no one I know of that can write the program, owns the machine and can build the master. I can make the original, and the fellow that owns that gun isn't dumb enough nor greedy enough to risk damaging that unique rifle in order to create some second rate knock-offs. Nor would he want there to be any, simply because he owns the real thing.
Come on Forrest, would you even consider risking a Weibe rifle to someone who doesn't even have the skill to create one, in order to tear it down to replicate it???? I don't think so.

I can copyright the design, it is relatively easy, and I've an attorney friend who specializes in copyright law for artists. I've already seen a knock off of this rifle at the Guild Show several years ago. The year after I published a full length view in Gunmaker. Believe me, it snapped my head around, at 30'. Upon closer examination, as they say, I was flattered and confident that mimincry was as close as that fellow was ever going to get.

No, I'm not up on the current machine capabilities, but even if one could get a hold of that gun to copy, there are too many subtleties, too many individual details in the metalwork and way too much handwork to make it viable to attempt to nock it off to cut the price.

I've got fullscale drawings of the barrel contour, action shaping and stock profile as well as a master pattern for the stock. I've had a couple of fellows ask to "borrow" my stock patterns, "whatta you kiddin!" Do I sell drawings, no way.

As an example of the difficulty, I sent a drawing of a different Low Wall to a perspective client about a dozen years ago. Nine years later he got back to me and had me build the rifle. Since then I've talked with two different "gunmakers" he shopped the drawing to who told me they wouldn't take on the project, even with the drawing, cause it was too much work and they were afraid to even bid it. The client had me do it, to the tune of about $12000, several thou more than if he had ordered the rifle when we first talked. Do you think he would have someone try to knock it off now?

The time, expertice and money it would take to digitize a half dozen custom rifle stocks could never be made up for in volume sales unless it was on a production basis and then it wouldn't be custom.

Roger's got it right, "Frankly, if the copiers had any talent they would be producing their own work and not copying someone else's".
I'm not worried about copiers, there is such a small market for the type of work I do I'm confident those that want original creations will come to me. those that want secnd rate facimilies will never do better than that.
Timan, how many $'s did Don Schneider invest in the first batch of titanium Mausers? Did he come out on it?
SDH

If I am not mistaken, it would take more than adding a circle C to engraving designs in order to protect them. I believe that every copywrite has to be registered in order to be effective, i.e. the rest of the world has to have notice that something exists that cannot be duplicated before anyone can make an effective claim that it has been duplicated.

I would think though that one would have a far better claim copywriting a work of engraving than one would the shape of a rifle stock. attemtping to copywrite a rifle stock would be akin to trying to copywrite mens pants. You can copywrite the brand name, but not the fact that the garmet had two legs, a seat, and a zipper.

http://www.copyright.gov/register/visual.html

From that web site:


A “useful article†is an object having an intrinsic utilitar¡an function that is not merely to portray the appearance of the article or to convey information. Examples are clothing, furniture, machinery, dinnerware, and lighting fixtures. An article that is normally part of a useful article may itself be a useful article, for example, an ornamental wheel cover on a vehicle.

Copyright does not protect the mechanical or utilitarian aspects of such works of craftsmanship. It may, however, protect any pictorial, graphic, or sculptural authorship that can be identified separately from the utilitarian aspects of an object. Thus, a useful article may have both copyrightable and uncopyrightable features. For example, a carving on the back of a chair or a floral relief design on silver flatware could be protected by copyright, but the design of the chair or flatware itself could not.

Some designs of useful articles may qualify for protection under the federal patent law. For further information, contact the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, P.O. Box 1450, Alexandria, VA 22313-1450 or via the Internet at www.uspto.gov. The telephone number is 1-800-786-9199 and the TTY number is (571) 272-9950. The automated information line is (571) 272-1000.

Copyright in a work that portrays a useful article extends only to the artistic expression of the author of the pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work. It does not extend to the design of the article that is portrayed. For example, a drawing or photograph of an automobile or a dress design may be copyrighted, but that does not give the artist or photographer the exclusive right to make automobiles or dresses of the same designâ€

I went to school at Trindad in the late 60's and carving a stock from a blank was the only way to produce a stock, custom or other wise. Stock duplicators have been around for a 100 years, but they were for making military arms and factory replacement stocks. It seems that the use of a duplicator for custom work has apeared within the last 20 or 30 years. I use a duplicator, but it also make the pattern. The pattern is great for fitting a stock to a customer. Usually the customer can't give the dimensions he needs. It's a slow process and the customer nerver knows what he wants until you've gone pass the correct dimensions. At that point you need to add material to the pattern, usually bondo. When I first started using patterns I would order a stockmaker special from Fajen and use that as a basic start.

Now you guys seen to be worried about a copyright or circle C on the pattern. As if once you've carved a pattern you own it. This is the 21 century and just about everything has been done by someone. Do we need to reseach a stock shape to make sure it never been done before? If so, we are all out of business.

SDH,

You, Klein, Wiebe and others don't have to worry about someone duplicating your work, you do however have to worry about somebody copying your work.

Mark brings up an interesting point. Is a stock an industrial design or a piece of sculpture? If it's sculpture then it's artwork and the artist gets special treatment. When an artist creates an image or design, immediately upon it's creation, all rights belong to the artist and they keep those rights even if the art is sold. It doesn't even have to be registered in the Copyright office. If the artist is a freelance artist and not your employee, they retain all rights to the work unless there is an express agreement that conveys rights to the purchaser.

Copyright is all but a moot point because the skill, experience and personal investment required to create a unique custom rifle doesn't need to be copyrighted. Simply put, no one in there right mind would make that investment for the sake of a monitary payoff. It aint gunna happin.

An example of why a machinist can't replicate a gun. A couple of years ago I made the statement here that "precision machining has little to do with gunmaking" and I got skewered for it. A fellow I once knew thought he would simply buy a Farqurson action and have it mass manufacured. He bought an original, took it to the wizzbanger machine shop, they wrote the programs, they made all the parts, BUT, they couldn't get it to work. Why because the original was largley handmade, certainly hand-fit and they really had no clue how to make the bridge beween. Why, because they weren't gunmakers. After several thousand dollars, not a single action was ever seen although I saw a few batches of parts that a few wannabes were going to finish, I never saw a working action let alone a finshed rifle.
I just aint that easy, although there seems no end to those that swear they can do it, "cheeper, better and in quantity".Where's the Williams action? I have it on good word that the Montana action company is hurting and looking for investers. Why is Lenard Bull selling cast action kits and not finished actions or complete rifles?
After 30 years, I'm mostly interested in results. The rifle shown above is finished, shooting and in a Huey case. And by they way, that museum grade "safe queen" Marlin M-94 I showed a while back was responcible for the demise of a red fox on the client's Maryland farm, I was deligted to hear!
SDH

SDH

I have no skill, experience, or personal investment, but I bet I could create a "unique" firearm in far less time than it takes you.

What is my point? There might be a lot of skill, experience, and personal investement in what you do, but is it worth anything if nobody likes it? (that is not to say I don't like your work, but just a philosophical question)

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
A couple of years ago I made the statement here that "precision machining has little to do with gunmaking" and I got skewered for it.

You may remember I was on your side in that argument and I remain there today. It's unlikely there will ever be a machine that replaces the hand-fitting and finishing that makes a full-custom gun so desireable.

The big change will be in the middle ground of semi-custom guns. It'll be a lot easier for guys to build guns that will turn your head at 30' though they still won't hold your attention when at arm's length.

SDH,
Don didn't come out well at all on those titanium actions and rifles he invested somewhere between 300 and 400K and never saw a dime back. A few things where working agaist Taconic. First and foremost it was a new company with a titanium action, the shooting and hunting world just wasn't ready for it, so it was going to take some time to get it to catch. secondly the titanium rifles depended solely on profits from his parent company which hit a rough spot in the road at about the time of start up or shortly after. Thridly the crew did not work well at all together and getting things done was a complete and total joke, opinions and egos seemed more important at times than getting anything meaningfull accomplished. It turned out that Don would rather end it all than have all that kind of bullshit going on in his shop. Basically the money wasn't big enough for Don to put up with it all. So he pulled the plug. Two years later he offered what was left of it all to me, 40 actions, prints fixtures ect, I jumped on it and have built a few more rifles to pay for the purchase, it's not a barn burner in terms of sales by any stretch, they do make a cool light weight rifle that not everybody has and thats about what it amounts to. More work, just piled a little higher and deeper.
Timan

It's not a hijacking, it's an expansive discussion of Bill's future in stockmaking. We've just about concluded he can make a go of it if he's really good.

Forrest, I know you know about the difference, but I still don't see any real market for the "middle ground" unless it is the current plastic stock craze. The investment needed isn't justified by the demand, as I see it.
Timan, I met Don and had a rather lengthy chat with him several years ago in Reno. Also have a client/friend who has one of the original rifles.
Don's story illustrates exactly the point I've been trying to get across, there is no end to those that think they can do it......In Don's case he had deep enough pockets, and enough experience and tooling to make the stuff but he only got halfway there. The stuff still has to be marketed, if there is truly a market for what the maker dreams of building? In his case recovering the hundreds of thousands wasn't in the cards. In most cases the money runs out first, that's what I hear is happening up in Kalispell.
It turns out to be a good thing for you, but obviously "build it and they will come" has not been the case.
Sure looks like you do fine work and I wish you the best. How come I'm not hearing about your actions from the bolt rifle guys I know? I have hopes of doing a story about the current crop of contemporary custom Mauser actions, but first I have to find an interested magazine and I'm surely going to find the market before I do the research and writing.
WRF, There is no lack of demand for my work at this time.
SDH
...and to lessen the hijack. I AM looking for a helper, 20 hours a week, in Livingston, MT, polishing metalwork, sanding and finishing stocks under my supervision. Experience required, no pay for the first 2-3 weeks training. ?????

I did the math on this very subject a couple of years (oh shit, decades) ago. The financials are still horrible, on par with any other venture into the fine arts....So bad in fact that one's love of the work has to overwhelm common sense.

As a consumer, I have to respectfully disagree about the middle market issue. The "middle" market is price-limited, not demand limited. reduce the price for a well fitted second-tier gun and the market share will be there.

The discussion is being held as an American issue and frankly, it will probably be a Berretta or ATK conglomerate that makes the investment to make this happen.

First, it will take large healthy company to justify the capitalization and there needs to be cross-utilization among product lines.

Such a company no longer exsists here in the firearms business, sad to say.

And the first applications will be very likely be to the double shotgun market where it will be a means of increased profits, not new market share. Gradually it will leak into other markets, including contract work for other makers. In principal its no different than the leap Ruger and TC made when the went to castings.

This will never compete with the SDHs of the world but it could eventually make life hard for the second and third tier stockmakers.

Maybe something transpired while I was away, but Ive not seen Chic Worthing respond.

He would be a good one to ask about this as he made the move to full time stockmaker not so long ago.

My thoughts would be to think it through carefully and move forward with a plan.. If your wife doesnt have Med coverage for the family, but doesnt make a lot of $$, then maybe she could find work that does provide that. Also like les says, dont put all your eggs in one basket, find alternative ways to supplement your income. Whatever you choose, good luck Bill.

Bill started this thread asking for opinions and advice on going full time. Early on in the thread GSP7 brought up a question if Bill had a duplicator........ Later ForrestB brought up the laser digitizing & CNC semi inlet topic.....I chimed in and gave a few cents on the digitizing subject... and SDH pointed out a real fact that there's no replacing talent with CNC tooling.

I would have to agree with SDH. The interesting thing about the laser digitizing is that you can copy it without harming the stock in any way. At worst it will need a light dusting with baby powder to get a good "read". This will, as ForrestB predicted become more affordable in the not so distant future. It will open up the opportunity to copy some of the clasic favorites and sell to those CUSTOMERS interested in stocking their own SEMI INLET. It will have that marketing pizzazz that some customers will open their wallets for. It will not however produce a stock that's ready for finish. As SDH dictated there's no way to replace the talent needed to build a truly fine rifle. After a ton of time $$$$ programming and crunching numbers it will produce a SEMI INLET with much less hands on grunt work for the operator. Might free up some time to run other machines or generate some more sales. Running a duplicator well takes a lot of time to master. Pushing the go button does not. There will be button pushers needed like wife, kids, rabid inlaws that can help a small shop get product out the door. The time to inlet and shape a CNC run or a duplicated is not much different. The price of CNC machines vs buying a duplicator is pretty much a wash. Building a Duplicator will be much cheaper in materials, but the time it will take has to be worth something. I'm putting my money on building a duplicator for now, but watching the pricing on that laser digitizing and may do some in the future. For the immediate future I'll stock the next rifle / 416 Rigby GMA / with metal work from Timan using my bridgeport manual mill to inlet and wack it out of a blank. Customer can't wait for me to program the GMA action. The best part is I don't have far to go to get into my shop!
gunmaker

way too much overanylizing, the fact is if his work is first class which it looks to be. word of mouth will keep bill very busy, probably to busy.

Bill first I wish you all the best is whatever you decide. I've been down that road where ones chosen career field is at a dead end and I wasn't free in my mind to change locations.

No one here except for SDH who may remember the fellow he advised in the Eugene days knows me.

The pros here have laid it out faithfully and with deep understanding. The only thing I can add is that it will be your business sense that will make or break your enterprise, not your skills.

The good thing about starting your own business like this is you get to pick which 14 hrs of the day you get to work. I frankly liked working at night. Less distractions.

Do you have a business plan laid out? This is of great importance. I was very lucky in that my best friend was also one of the top 50 business lawyers in the nation and helped me with mine. Without a sound plan you are flying blind on a wing and a prayer and that's the fast track to loosing everything.

I was fortunate in a couple of areas. I picked a speciality and pretty well stuck to it and was able to meet my 5 year plan in the first year and kept modifying that as progress was made.

Like I said, This is about the only thing I could add that hasn't been covered other than you won't get every job, nor because of the job or customer do you want every job.

Good luck to you,

Don

Suffering from CRS (can't remember sh!t), I haven't a clue who, or what advise I might have given you.
Was it good?!?!? Should I ask!?!?
SDH

Here is your reason to begin.

quote:

one's love of the work has to overwhelm common sense.

This will determine your financial success.

"The pros here have laid it out faithfully and with deep understanding. The only thing I can add is that it will be your business sense that will make or break your enterprise, not your skills."

For all we do it is the love of the game that will determine our thoughts when we look back after all the hard work and sacrifice is only a memory. Is it worth it?
Hell yes!
You go for it.
Frank

quote:

Suffering from CRS (can't remember sh!t), I haven't a clue who, or what advise I might have given you.
Was it good?!?!? Should I ask!?!?
SDH

This is Don. A David Stallick brought you to my new shop. I had a project which was a 1901 Colts SSA Bisley in .45LC It had been in a holster loaded for about 30 years. No lie. It was more rust, pits and air than metal.

SDH helped to organize my thinking on the project, gave some tips and networking contacts who also helped.
The restoration took quite some time but came out very nice.

Anyhow, the family got to fire Granddads pistol that he had used to guard a President of the U.S. and were very happy with the outcome.

Thanks again for getting me on the right path. I think it shortly after that you moved.

Don

wish you sucess,hope full time don't mean out of time.

Glad it worked out for you Don. I do remember now, and that was just before I left Oregon.
SDH

Well the decision has been made for me it seems. I was offered and accepted a full time stockmaking position at a small shop. I just returned from a week long interview and everything went very well. The guys I will be working with are good people and the company is solid.

I'm glad to hear it. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Soverns:
Well the decision has been made for me it seems. I was offered and accepted a full time stockmaking position at a small shop. I just returned from a week long interview and everything went very well. The guys I will be working with are good people and the company is solid.

Bill,

I hope you love it! Are ya gonna put in a plug for your new place of employment????? Inquiring minds want to know.

Best of luck!

Congrats Bill!!!!!