The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Swift Bullet Co. Acquires Blackburn Bottom MetalGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Swift Bullet Co. Acquires Blackburn Bottom Metal | Login/Join |
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Some good news from The NRA's Cameron Hopkins Blog See:Industry Insider "Diligentia - Vis - Celeritas" NRA Benefactor Member Member DRSS | ||
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I wonder if Ted got his full asking price. Good for him. Glad to hear it. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Sounds like a good thing for all involved. In other news, they need a better proofreader. | |||
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Great for all concerned. Swift seems to be on solid footing, and this addition makes sense from a business standpoint. Rich | |||
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This will be interesting to watch this play out. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Wonder if the terms of the acqusition of Blackburn were simular for Ted as the terms of acquisition of Swift were for Lee? Longshot | |||
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Longshot you nailed it !  There is nothing as permanent as a good temporary repair. | |||
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What were those terms? Curious minds want to know. Blake | |||
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I'd be willing to bet that 22WRF hsd all the inside dope on this one. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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On Teds end of things he didn't want much. He was selling everything lock stock and barrel (pun intended) $140K was the last price I heard of from Ted himself. That included everything machine tools, Tooling, Fixture, Everything. I'm going to speculate here as we are all so good about doing. I hope Ted stayed firm on his price and took a paying position as a consultant and with a buy out option as well. (Swift buying out Ted's contract and sending him packing as most of these deals end up doing.) If Ted on the other hand reduced his asking price in exchange for the paid position I hope it was for all the best of reasons and hope they keep him on board for a while. Please take the above statements with a shot of your favorite liquor as I don't personally know Ted nor anyone with the Swift Bullet co. Nor how they each are operated www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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I have a feeling that Swift Bullet Company is going to find out that its not as easy to run that kind of business as they think it is. | |||
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Well lets put it this way. If someone came to me and ask me to machine a chunk of bottom metal labor alone would be more then the rifles worth in a one off situation. Those things require lots of tooling and fixturing to do a good job. Not to mention figuring out how to do it the best way possible. Yeah they may figure it's not worth it. But if they did it right and got a good machinist and a good programmer with good tooling and a few machining centers they could mass produce high end bottom metal and be able to reduce the price a wee bit. Not much but in mass production $299 across the board would be a good goal. Time will Tell www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Ted had two very nice machines, his own fixtures, programs, and tooling. They worked very well, at least to my eyes when I was there 4 or 5 times watching. The problem is the type of business. Its very up and down. You can do one-ups but you waste a lot of time doing it that way. And if you make medium sized runs you have a lot of inventory sitting around, sometimes for a long time. Overhead is expensive. Steel, tooling maintenance, electricity, labor, heat, light, rent, etc. Like any other business, you have customers who want credit, and therefore you have some customers who don't pay. You also have many more makers as competition than Ted did when he started. And you have higher end action makers who make pretty decent bottom metal theirselves. Swift's saving grace will be that they are in another business, bullets, at the same time, whereas Ted was a one man show. Swift can spread their overhead over a much larger inventory of items. Whatever Ted received for the business, I am glad for him that he found somebody to buy it. I hope he has a nice long retirement. And I hope Maggie and Rusty find something for theirselves as well. | |||
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Hmmm...let see, if I understand this correctly. I have a high volume/mass production/mass distribution business buying a very low volume non mass distribution business. The above combination rarely works well together. I don't see any business sense in this for Swift at face value. Other than both being in the gun business...these product lines are pretty far apart. I sure hope Blackburn's machines have value to Swift other than to produce Blackburn bottom metal. Blackburn's ASP is roughly $400 a unit. How many order's do you think he was getting for his bottom metal? 5 a week? 10 a week? even at 10 a week that is only $200k in gross revenues. I can see Blackburn making a living at selling his own bottom metal he probably had little overhead and no debt on his equipment...my guess is that unless those machines have other production value to Swift this is maybe a troublesome acquisition. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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As far as the machines go. I don't remember what he said he had. But they were not worth (to me) what he was asking. No offense intended to Ted I would have paid him what he was asking just for the Fixtures, tooling and rights. But the machines are outdated. That said they will do fine doing the same thing they have been doing for years. As for swift putting them to use for something else. If they can find someone that knows the control. Shop I worked in bought a used Makino with a 1990's fanuc control No one within a 1000 miles had the experience with this control Had to fly a guy out from back east and he still scratched his head trying to figure it out. With CNC you are buy in a ratio of about 60/40 to 70/30 Control to machine condition. The machine can be rebuilt relatively cheep for the amount of years of use you will get out of it. A CNC control is another issue and at $10K to start with a CNC retrofit it gets expensive quick. New machines are the way to go. Huge tax breaks, Factory training, Tooling packages, etc... www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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I really doubt Swift is high volume. Not unless they are making bullets for other brands. Perhaps they would be considered high volume in sheer numbers compared to Blackburn but compared to other bullet makers I suspect they are decidedly low volume and suspect their planning, thought process and outlook not to mention their actual manufacturing process is "low volume". They are a high end custom bullet maker are they not? As such their market is not to the rank and file hunter but to the enthusiast. Same as Blackburn. I agree with Mike's total revenue numbers. Make one wonder how they will generate enough revenue to even cover the cost of dis-assembly, transportation and reassembling the equipment. To say nothing the the lost production due to down time. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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"Troublesome acquisition" ... if they over-paid to acquire the assets, having done the simple artithmetic or not even getting their accountant involved, then we must conclude that it was done for love and charity. Asuming Swift offered a Price/Earnings raio (PE) of 5 times, and the price stayed at $ 140k, then the annual after tax earnings were based on $28,000 per annum or $2,333 per month. Clearly not a sizeable business. Other than getting a pay-back, is the the trouble worth the effort and hazzle? A custom bullet maker sells bullets that can be seen as a 'consumable' wheras a 'bottom metal' can be seen as a 'capital' item with far less replenishing, if at all. The crux of the matter is to earn future profits, which may be harder than historical profits that were made. This depends on future demand and the extent of market saturation and/or future business prospects to become pehaps an OEM supplier of bottom metal. But I cannot see major companies like Remington and Winchester make use of outside components, as they opt for the cheap route making factory rifles for the masses. A Model 700 BDL can be had for $985 and $400 for a piece of bottom metal is not going to feature in a factory rifle. Warrior | |||
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In a modern production environment the way Blackburn was manufacturing his bottom metal is totally obsolete. Multi-axis CNC mills and wire EDM machines can make bottom metal in large quantities easily. There is just not that big a market. The same machines can be used to manufacture items with a greater selling price and a larger market. | |||
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I, personally, have been removing this sleeve entirely since the very early '70s, to allow pillar bedding. Same with 1903 Springfields. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Good idea, I have a Blackburn I got from 22wrf and a Weibe dropmag to fit my FN .308Norma and my FN-Browning .458WM. and I think I will ask the one of Martini's former smiths who finishs these two rifles for me to do exactly that. Good one, Joe, even we "old" geezers can learn from you young fellas, eh!  | |||
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Do you really want to open the "Gun Snob" can of worms??  In a nut shell Blackbrun's, & Duane's were never designed to be a replacement for factory bottom metal on a factory grade rifle. They were intended to go on higher end customs. As far as manufacturing ease goes and lower cost to the consumer, Remington has already addressed that issue with great success. The $400 walmart special for example. If I'm going commision a rifle in the 8K to 14K range you bet I want machined from solid everything www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Howard, High volume versus low volume when it comes to the management issues I am referring to is relevant to the internal operations of the firm. It is not whether Swift bullets are high volume versus low as compared to Hornady but how managing a business producing 100s or 1000s of boxes of bullets at a time is very different than a business that produces 5 or 10 pieces of bottom metal at a time and all of the related matters of customer expectations, customer requirements, capital, inventory requirements...etc. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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+1 Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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IMO they'd sell in only a few months, depending upon the advertising approach. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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All I have to say is good luck to Swift. I hope they do good with the brand. It takes balls to do something like this in these times. Glad to see it happen. | |||
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Lots of good points bought up here. Some guys think with their heads, others with their heart. Personally, I belong in the latter category. Yes, big invesment up front and then the expense REALLY begins. Oh, you can justify anything you want to...I kind of look at this like a car payment.. Have to make the payment whether I drive the car or not. Right now, the machine is humming every day and have had to bring in help, but a lot of that acivity is devoted to building up an inventory. I wish the folk at Swift well...I have a great relationship with Andy at Sunny Hill, hope the same happens with Swift. | |||
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No synergies. No shared product, production, or inventory cycles. Batch process vs individual build. It's not buying another bullet makers line, it is about the same as swift buying a catch trap line. Or suddenly going into replacement bolts Hope it works out. But ford can't run detamasso either opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Absolutely ----- there has to be more to this than meets the eye. In a modern production environment that has to support a considerable overhead the “Blackburn” manufacturing process/method would be a sure way into bankruptcy!! | |||
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It's not unknown for manufacturers who have excess production capacity to sometimes take up the slack by job-shopping a few outside contracts occasionally. They could have decided that, instead of jobshopping, they would rather diversify somewhat while taking advantage of circumstances. It's also possible that this was an excuse to spend some capital to avoid taxation. It's also possible that someone has an In-Law who needs work and a Partner who insists......(VBG) I just hope it results in success for them. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Swift Bullet Co. Acquires Blackburn Bottom Metal
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