Now that Mississippian got beat all to hell and back by a few for a gracious offer, I have a question for the group as to what type of welding equipment to use. It is obvious that TIG is the preferred method. However, gas/oxyacetylene was used for years by some of the best. There is also MIG to consider. Bottom line is I would like to know what those of you who actually weld on firearms parts think about the various systems. Reason I ask is I have a good torch set and am proficient with it. I also have a Clarke 130 MIG (gas) that I have yet to use (although I used MIG for a full semester at the local community college). I also have a Lincoln AC-225 and an older Montgomery Wards 180 that is AC/DC. I realize stick welders aren’t the setup for gun stuff and reserve them for my farm equipment. So, can I happily weld bolt handles and bottom metal with my gas rig and/or my MIG or do I need to get a TIG setup and if so what type. Would an add on box for my DC rig be sufficient (scratch start) or do I need a foot controlled self starting ($$) rig. I have 35 projects in the queue that I have accumulated over the years that will require some type of welding (mostly bolt handles) and need to get started on them. I understand the problems with heat migration and the use of heat sinks and pastes to stop this.

Oh yeah, which should I use to put a square bridge on my small ring receivers?

Never weld on a receiver, never weld on a receiver, never.......

I would disagree on the "never weld on a receiver" comment made by Jeffeoso. I have had tig welding done on receivers more than once to fill erroneous scope mount holes (rear brige and side rails). The welding was done by folks who know what they are doing. Its not something I would recommend for a rank amateur welder (like me) but it CAN be done.

quote:

Originally posted by Thaine:
Now that Mississippian got beat all to hell and back by a few for a gracious offer, I have a question for the group as to what type of welding equipment to use. It is obvious that TIG is the preferred method. However, gas/oxyacetylene was used for years by some of the best. There is also MIG to consider. Bottom line is I would like to know what those of you who actually weld on firearms parts think about the various systems. Reason I ask is I have a good torch set and am proficient with it. I also have a Clarke 130 MIG (gas) that I have yet to use (although I used MIG for a full semester at the local community college). I also have a Lincoln AC-225 and an older Montgomery Wards 180 that is AC/DC. I realize stick welders aren’t the setup for gun stuff and reserve them for my farm equipment. So, can I happily weld bolt handles and bottom metal with my gas rig and/or my MIG or do I need to get a TIG setup and if so what type. Would an add on box for my DC rig be sufficient (scratch start) or do I need a foot controlled self starting ($$) rig. I have 35 projects in the queue that I have accumulated over the years that will require some type of welding (mostly bolt handles) and need to get started on them. I understand the problems with heat migration and the use of heat sinks and pastes to stop this.

Oh yeah, which should I use to put a square bridge on my small ring receivers?

Never weld on a receiver, never weld on a receiver, never.......

When it comes to working on guns, I would leave the Oxy/Acetylene outfit for the purpose of providing heat only. As simple as bolt handles are to weld on, it requires a bit of forethought as to what areas to protect from the heat. Since it takes Oxy/Acetylene longer to bring the surrounding metal to actual welding temperature, you run the risk of burning the steel and ruining the cocking cam surface with that method. Pick a method that brings the metal to the melting point quicker and with more control. When working with guns, quicker is better. TIG is by far the most controllable. And with a high frequency remote start to boot. I use a Miller Dialarc for guns, and for farm equipment I use a Miller "Passport" suitcase MIG.

quote:

Never weld on a receiver, never weld on a receiver, never.......

disagree.....just know what you're doing.....

You can screw up badly on the rear ring and cause very little consequence!

I have a Miller econotig and it works for me! yes, there may be better ones.....but...it does what I want it to do.

I've used the oxy torch with great success just melting corners together on magazine parts......but you can do that with TIG as well.

I'm sure there are folks that weld on the front receiver rings as well.....but I won't, unless it's a simple spotweld to close a screw hole, and then spot and stop in about three seconds...

You never know where those receivers will wind up.....maybe a grandchild will inherit one of them.....play safe!

You need DC TIG (GTAW) and pure argon gas. Mig and stick (SMAW) are out. O\A might be acceptable in certain situations, but as Malm said, it cannot be concentrated to a pinpoint area like TIG.

That being said, your DC SMAW welder could be modified into a TIG machine with the proper components. Have a look around this link:

http://www.weldingweb.com/

There are some threads which address converting SMAW to GTAW.

Get a Miller econotig like Vapodog has.

My next welder will be a tig and Im looking at getting the miller econo tig also.

Go to the bottom of this page and you can click on and read what tig outfit would suit your needs


http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_tips/TIG_tips/hints_tips.html

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
You need DC TIG (GTAW) and pure argon gas. Mig and stick (SMAW) are out.

I would tend to agree, however, I have a friend on the coast who does bolt handles and other gun related projects with a MIG and he does an excellent job! I can't imagine the control one would need to run a wire feed around a bolt handle, but he does it, and he does it good. I just don't have that light of touch.

You can use 3.5 % Nickle rod with a tig

Initially I was not going to dignify this question with a response, as it started by making the false claim that a poster was "beat all to hell and back," which absolutely did not happen in any way, shape, or form. I am going to post anyway, based on the assumption you were trying to make a joke and it did not come across that way when read on this electronic medium. And while his offer may have seemed gracious to some, it was uninformed and made without doing the proper research.

I use a Miller Synchrowave 180. I use it to weld on the front, rear, bottom, top, sides, inside, outside, and anywhere else I need a chunk of metal on a reciever. Have never found anything in a gunshop that can not be done with the Synchrowave 180. You can also stick weld with it, but I have another stick welder set up all the time and just use it.

I have OA welded in the past, but never on guns. The amount of heat you have to dump into a part is obscene. Yes it was done in "the good old days," but so was forge welding. I can forge weld too and would just as likely get a good coal fire going as I would fire up the Victor for a gun weld.

Have absolutely no idea of the spools of MIG wire I have burned up, and would use it after OA welding in a gun shop. It would be great for making benches for the shop, but personally I would not use it on guns.

I would MIG before stick welding a gun though. My forge again would come first. But I do need to go get some more low sulfur coal. Have a couple of knife projects to hammer out, including some welding.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with welding a reciever...if you know what you are doing. The key is to know. Go back and read my response to the "free TIG" thread. I stand by what I wrote as good instruction to anyone wanting to do TIG gun work.

Whether you decide to MIG or TIG this place has about the best wire and rods around if you want good strong welds that will blue beautifully. z1r turned me on to them after Tom Burgess recommended it to him.

http://www.weldit.com/product1.html

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Soverns:
I would disagree on the "never weld on a receiver" comment made by Jeffeoso..... Its not something I would recommend for a rank amateur welder (like me) but it CAN be done.

Bill, you just made exactly the same statement I did, and for exactly the same reason.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
...NEVER weld on a receiver... and when you discover that this statement is not entirely a "law", you'll know why I said it that way.

jeffe

quote:

I would disagree on the "never weld on a receiver" comment made by Jeffeoso.

I think this comment by jeffe was aimed at the beginner/hobbiest etc such as myself.

I want to thank everyone for their responses. All were appreciated. I have spent many of my almost 60 years "accumulating" and realize now that I had better start doing. I have more than enough projects to last me through a normal lifetime and want to get some enjoyment out of them. I want to do as much as possible myself, therefore have acquired lathes and other equipment (no mill yet) to do this work. I also have been attending summer classes at TJC plus classes at the local community college and find that a couple of weeks there provides way more insight than any video or book (and I have read and probably have 2 copies of all the major and most minor gunsmithing books). It's that old tell, show then do bit of education that really works. I want my work to be decent and presentable, that's why I solicited the opinion of those of you that do this for a living or are more experienced as an advanced hobbiest. Looks like a true TIG setup goes onto my birthday list. Thanks again for the info and the links.

And yes, I realize you can weld on a receiver, One of my small ring 98s was touched up by one of the instructors at TJC. However, only after I told him I was going to fill the pit with JB weld and finish it with bake on finish I just doubt if that will be in my league, I plan to keep it simple.

quote:

I can't imagine the control one would need to run a wire feed around a bolt handle, but he does it, and he does it good. I just don't have that light of touch

you'd do it in little "pops"- maybe two per side, not the bottom side. like tacking. takes less than a minute. as long as you penetrate and leave enough new metal to bring the handle down to size, I don't see any problem with using MIG. I think if you did each side and then waited a bit between, the metal would heat less than with TIG.

quote:

Originally posted by Thaine:
Would an add on box for my DC rig be sufficient (scratch start) or do I need a foot controlled self starting ($$) rig.

I learned to scratch start tig at TSJC. It's all they had at the time. Thought I wanted a similar setup until I used one with a foot pedal & HF start. I'll never go back. Bought my Miller Dialarc HF for $500. It's not the latest & greatest, but it works for now. Weighs a LOT!! Not as fun to move as a new econotig. I can also stick weld with it. If you're on a budget, sell your two little ac & ac/dc welders and find a used REAL tig with HF start for not too much more. You'll be happy you did.

welding of any sort requires 3 things #1 a welder #2 knowledge of how to weld and the materials used and #3 PRACTICE in our shop we do a pile of tig work and my chief guy is the AWS natl champ. the only was he can keep up is to do it. occassional welding just isn't going to get your skill level up, it require lots of doing it, the more you do the better you get.