well, i've been uing a porter cable 690LR router on my stock machine, and brush life gets shorter and shorter... burnt through a set in less than 2 months (10?!?! stocks?)

yeah, these are cheap (11bucks a set plus shipping .. call it 20) and the amortization is SMALL ...

but it is a real hassle, as they don't just fail.. the motor gets weaker, and generaly right in the middle of a stock i am cutting FOR MYSELF...

Called PC, they suggested a new router, as I had probably been also shorter through the armature ....

you would think an HD router would last more than 50 hours on a set of brushes!!!!


back to the salt mine

jeffe

I thought PC was the good stuff.

How is the new duplicator coming along?

Terry

Terry,
my poor PC probably as 400-450 hours on it, in the last year... again, the amortization is pretty good, but I expected themt o last "forever" ...

new machine? heh.. pretty well.. i'll be reworking a hitachi m12V, perhaps, to run that one... 3.25 vs 1.75 HP .. and 220vAC!!!

j

Hey Jeffe,

Yeah, probably got a short in the windings, if my dad was alive he would have given you a ration of s.....t over not unwinding it and finding the short and rewinding it by hand.........I watched him do it to many times.

I bet if you find the right shop, you can get it rewound and not have to replace it, but time may have changed. Hell..........I be the truth be known that same armeture is used in many different tools. Might be able to find a new one.......but I may be in left field.

I would view PC as a good quality "HOME" unit. For the normal home shop 400-500hrs would be a couple lifetime.

Funny you should mention this, I have a Porter Cable 1/2" hammer drill that the brushes failed on last week! I haven't gotten around to ordering new ones yet. Also, I think the carbon in them is inferior as there was some length left so I re-profiled them which let me get my drilling finished but they started decomposing again. Maybe you should go to an electric motor shop (though they are becoming rare) and get a different brand of brush and see if you could get a tiny bit stronger spring too.

Jeffe,

Back in the last century when I was an Electricians Mate in the US Navy, brushes and armatures were something we worked on for both preventive and corrective maintenance.

When you are having trouble with brushes, the armature is probably needing some care to. You need a highly technical tool: a wooden stick with some canvas wrapped over the end which is used to burnish the armature.

I would ask PC for their recommended procedures, and follow them.

jim

Hunter Jim, that's waaaay to technical. We use an old fashioned big pencil eraser. It is just abrasive enough...

We use a Milkwaukee 2hp on the duplicator we have here. It gets a LOT of hours.

Forget the amortization, it's a power tool. What more of an excuse do you need to go buy a replacement. When my Stihl chainsaw chain became dull, I said to hell with that, and bought a new saw! Men live for this very moment.

Absolutely Malm, I got a old milwaukee router I've had for 20 years and wish it would burn up so I could go get one of them new ones that ain't so freaking heavy

It must be nice malm - I do all my chain sawing a craftsman chainsaw that's older than I am!!!

Jeffe,

Certainly time for an upgrade. Buy the biggest, most durable router you can find down there in Houston and get back to work!

Need it to be a 3.5" housing ... the bosch 16 v-something or other looks NICE.. but the PC has QD collects... nearly as fast as a KS200

jeffe

Hell of a deal.

About 15yrs ago my wife bought a 14" Harbor Fgt chopsaw for me. As that was the excuse I was giving for not building a 75' wrought iron fence. Cost $50. Lasted 11yrs.

Since then, I've had three different 14" Milwaukee's and not a one has lasted a full yr yet. Brushes, armature once, switches on everyone within a month. Everyone has/had been sent in for warranty repairs. N/C, but, damn it the shipping to Denver still costs. Not to mention the down time.

About the same time I bought the last one they had their own brand on sale for $39 so I got one of those for a back up. Am tempted to set the red one in the alley and close the door. That's usually the way I get rid of junk around here. Let some other sucker mess with it.

I hate to buy China crap, but, the quality and cost makes it almost unbearable sometimes. I paid $240 for the last two red one's.

George

George,
hate to tell you this. the red ones are made in the same factory as "chicago brand" and solid through HF these days....


on the stock machine...

tore the router down, dug out some of the old brushes, noticed one was long "enough".. faced the edges square. put the right side one, which had been burnt longer, in the left, put the longer old one in the right...

reset the gap to be even

cleaned the stater and windings with carb cleaner and 600 grit

blew all the crap out with air

shot some sp something "penetrating lube" in the whole mess,

put it back together...

runs like a top...


btw, here's a hint for PC brushes... drill a hole in the caps and use a small allen (i used a WD40 straw) to hold the spring loaded brushes in while you tighten them.


here's to another 400 hours!!

jeffe

and now I broke my palm sander... i bought that 15 years ago for the wife, and BD...

THAT one, even I can't fix

My trim crew, mills a few hundred feet of trim a year. Most on router tables since they are easier to move from job to job than a shaper. Dewalt routers last longer than PC's, At least the 3hp do. I had a 1.5 hp PC crap after 4 months on a large commercial job. One of my larger Dewalt routers has been going for several years, no brush change, VS switch was the only problem.
Most every thing I have bought that was PC has bit the dust accept for a couple of finish nailers I have. They have a few thousand nails through them. But mostly we use dewalt and senco for finish guns.

I buy mostly dewalt saws, have a few 708's, and othe tools. I like Milwaukee cordless drills, but have a couple dewalts as well. I like bosch hammer drills, they take the abuse.
I dont buy anything from HF, and I have a store 10 minutes from me.

Jeffe

The original machine that I made had the Black and Decker heavy duty and it lasted to over 100 stocks. It failed with a piece armature that was silver soldered came apart and locked up the machine with a hard crash. I still use the second Black and Decker, but we changed to the DeWalt commerial heavy duty with the 1/2 in chuck for the one made at TSJC for the students. I like the larger chuck much better for holding the cutters. I tried a couple of the palm sanders years ago. I had too many problems with the rounding of edges, so back to the hard backed hand sanding.

Sounds like PC aint really up to the challenge.. Dewalt, Bosch, or BD ... but to me, BD is out, at least today...

Les,
I use the palm right after I draw file, to take out more file marks before I take the stock out of the cradle.. certainly wouldn't use it for finish work!

j

Isn't Dewalt, PC, and B&D the same company?
Butch
www.shadetreeea.com

quote:

Isn't Dewalt, PC, and B&D the same company?

Dewalt and B&D are the same company. I thought PC was different.

porter cable used to be rockwell brand

I just called the DeWalt people. Dewalt, PC, B&D, and Rockwell are the same company now. That is scarey to me.
Butch

quote:

I just called the DeWalt people. Dewalt, PC, B&D, and Rockwell are the same company now. That is scarey to me.

I agree with you on that. All tools made by the same people. Yikes.

so, it guess it's bosch ... any complaints on them?

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I would view PC as a good quality "HOME" unit. For the normal home shop 400-500hrs would be a couple lifetime.

Yes.....exactly.....I have a three horse PC varispeed router that I use as a shaper and it's almost 15 years old.....runs great but has probably only run 25 hours in all that time.......

You need an industrial tool and not a hobbyist model.

Jeff, can you post a picture were the router mounts to the machine?
Are you stuck with the round body routers or does it mount on the bottom using screws?

I havent used many bosch tools accept for the hammer drills. If they are built alike you should have few worries.

It's a crap shoot with the other's. I like the old B&D industrial drills and such. Bought one just before Dewalt bought them out.

jeffe,

I have a Bosch router. I'm at work and it's at home so I can't tell you the model number. Anyway, that bastard is built hell for stout. It can smoothly hog out wood a lot faster than I can push it around a piece. I think the smaller hp routers and smaller hp chainsaws are the same. You can cut a big piece of wood, but you have to let the motor spin up to full speed without a load, and then put it on the wood, count five, pull it off, repeat forever.

My only two PC tools are a little 5" worm drive saw that is the "E" ticket for cutting plywood up on a roof, and a jig saw that does pretty well.

I had a 4"x24" PC belt sander once that was a little toooooo powerful. With a long enough cord and 40 grit sandcloth it would have made a great snowmobile.

I forgot about the 4 Bosch jig saws I have, they are the cats meow. The one porter cable jig saw I have is missing a front foot and blows dust right in your face. Stout motor though.
PC's tiger saw used to be my favorite till they changed the body desin, now it is just to big and prefer the Milwaukee.

PC detail sander I have fell apart. Now I use the different rubber pads for sanding odd shapes by hand.

I have a Bosch EVS router that I use on fiberglass. I keep changing brushes and lower bearings but it keeps going and going. I am going to check it however because I either need new collets or a new router due to increased runout.

Ian,
replacing lower bearings and brushes it what I am trying to get away from.. though I might now.

GSP,
the mouting is VERY simple.. 3.5" bored hole in a plate of 1.2" alum (fortal) .. I cut 1/8" slot through one side, and put a 3/8 bolt travising that slice to tighten. SO, yeah, right now, I am limited to rounds.

JC,
when you get a chance, see which model, k? if it's the 16(with 47 letters or some stuff) can you caliper the housing diameter? 3.5" would be perfect, or I'll need to tear down and build another.

Thinking about working over a hitacki mp12, and make a round body for it, as the square shape is mostly for mounting points for the plunge.. I mught could even modify my setup to utilize THOSE mounting points.
I would upgrade the bearings, of course, and if I have to make the body, I'll do double thrust bearings with axial and radial spec.

jeffe

jeffe,

I wrote it on my hand so I'll remember when I get home. I'll take a few pictures also.

JCN

Yeah,the 1617EVS is 3 1/2".I like the light weight,I don't use mine in a table.The best way to check a router's capacity is to measure the diameter of the main bearing.Big bearing take big loads,and I'm not sure about 1617EVS bearing size.The big Elu(Dewalt 625)plunge is a brute of a machine.

You need a Perske or similar router. Completely sealed, use a phase controller to vary speed and use real machine collets. No brushes. Real money, not hobby stuff.

Ian

Thanks downwindtracker2,

No computer at home so I can only post between patients now.

I'll put the pictures up as soon as I can pull away for a few minutes jeffe.

The cylinder section is 3.5" in diameter as downwindtracker2 noted, and 3.35" long.

LD

quote:

Real money, not hobby stuff.

I'm afraid to ask, but what is real money here?

thanks,

LD

quote:

Originally posted by Ian Robertson:
You need a Perske or similar router. Completely sealed, use a phase controller to vary speed and use real machine collets. No brushes. Real money, not hobby stuff.

Ian

you mean something like a columbo 5hp? Let's see, the entire machince was about 2500, not the 4-5k that just a couple hundred pound "real router" would weigh.

Now, if you know of a 3ph 2 to 3 hp router that one could buy for a couple hundred bucks, please let me know, otherwise the "real router" route is cost, weight, and envelope prohibative


JC,
thanks for measuring that for me
j

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I would view PC as a good quality "HOME" unit.

Are you joking me? Step into 90% of any cabinet shop in north america and tell what brand of routers do you find. I'm a cabinet maker by trade and P/C is all I use. Routers (4) , biscuit jointer (2) laminate trimmer (2), hammer drill (1),
I have 11 years on my 690 and have yet to replace the brushes.

Michael

You can keep your PC tools. Every one I have had is let me down.
I have a biscut cutter with a 7 yr old blade because the bolt was so tight it strip (allen). I have to grind the head off to change the blade.
My cousin in law is a cabinet refacer. His Trimmer broke a part, cant remember what part. My compressor started leaking after 3 yrs. I'm not talking about a wrench fix, the gasket fell apart around the intake. And I have had the 3hp routers that your talking about overload using small panel bits. Pain in the rump when your in the middle of a door panel.

Glad they have worked for you