quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick 0311:
I can “almost†understand someone mixing up a 25-06 and a 30-06 or other rounds based on a common sized/length case...but how in the hell does a guy load a much shorter 308 into an 06 length bolt action rifle without noticing it?

Right after I got out of the Marine Corps me and my cousin were out hunting deer. He spotted a Porccupine on a rock way down below us and started shooting at it with his 30-06. He ran out of ammo and so I gave him some of my 270's to shoot. He eventually killed it, but it took a while.

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
I can “almost†understand someone mixing up a 25-06 and a 30-06 or other rounds based on a common sized/length case...but how in the hell does a guy load a much shorter 308 into an 06 length bolt action rifle without noticing it?

Hey Rick, how in the hell can someone run a stop light without noticing its red \

I rolled a 7 mag down a 338 once. Most of us mere motals have done something supid by not paying attention, more than once in most cases.

Billy,

Hey, I’ve run red lights also...but I knew what car I was driving!

Busted up laughing a few minutes ago watching Fox News. They showed a security camera shot from a convenience store where a woman gets whacked by a car that crashes through the front door right behind her as she was coming in. The police said the person driving the car said they “accidently†stepped on the gas instead of the brake!!!

Yeah, both pedals are rubber covered and look sort of similar, and the stupid car manufacturers continue to insist on putting them right next to each other...I can see where someone could easily mistake one for the other!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Maybe I’m a weirdo...but I normally check to see that I am loading the correct ammunition way before it ever gets put in the rifle where I would have the chance to see what it “feels†like when being chambered.

I have about 25 years full time in gunsmithing, in that time I have seen two guns that had the wrong ammo run through them. In both cases the guys swore they did not have any other ammo with them. In both cases when the guns were taken apart the brass told the story, there was enough marking left to read the caliber of the brass. Clearly they did have more than one caliber with them.

In one case the bullet was extruded down from 308 to 257, When I pulled the barrel there was an obstruction, I took a cleaning rod and pushed out a bullet that was very long and weighed just over 165 grains. That settled any questions in that case. That was a Mauser 98, the stock was split, magazine swolen, and the extractory is probably still in orbit. The bolt could not be opened until we removed the barrel, the case had flowed back and made quite a mess. The rifle was donated to the local hunters safety folks.

The second was a Browning A-Bolt, about 70% of that gun was destroyed. In this case the customer swore he only had one kind of ammo with him that day. I knew him so I asked him to hear me out. I suggested that he had his favorite jacket on that day as it was cold out. Further I suggested that he had been shooting the other caliber the previous trip the the range, and pulling this last round from his pocket he never checked it. About that time he went white. Luckily he was wearing glasses, no long term injury.

Bottom line is when you start feeling too familar with things you get lax in checking the details. Rick is right, this is not a hobby where you will get away with that often.

Jörgen!

The artickle about the blown up Weatherby MK V was in Jaktjournalen a few years back. The guy that got hurt was a Norwegian! He was a young guy that during a training session at Lövenskiold rifle range was asked to try a hunters rifle and the rifle came apart in his hands.

I´m pretty sure this was the story that was printed in the huntingmagazine!

This has been discussed before here at AR some time ago.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp.../623101021#623101021

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp.../r/93810574#93810574

Is that the bolt head from a Savage rifle in the picture?

I bet Rick will live forever, sounds like a perfect man. I certainly can't understand chambering the wrong round and I can't see myself doing it but I'll never say it's not possible, if it wasn't possible then I wouldn't have to take steps to prevent it. Those who claim perfection and everybody else an idiot are usually the worst offenders.

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
I bet Rick will live forever, sounds like a perfect man. I certainly can't understand chambering the wrong round and I can't see myself doing it but I'll never say it's not possible, if it wasn't possible then I wouldn't have to take steps to prevent it. Those who claim perfection and everybody else an idiot are usually the worst offenders.

Point out where I said it wasn’t possible...or that everyone else was an idiot.

If you’re gonna quote someone, assign your meanings to their words, or place words in their mouth at least take the time to be accurate about it.

You stated pretty much the same thing that I did when you said that “I wouldn’t have to take steps to prevent it.†Since this has never happened to you, and you still take steps to prevent it, and you also can’t see how it could happen, (all your statements) how are we opposed on this?

You don’t have to be “perfect†to not be “careless†when handling firearms...and in my opinion (just my opinion) having similar but non-compatible ammunition sitting around so you can accidentally load it is careless behavior, and in my opinion people that are prone to careless behavior should avoid dangerous activities.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

quote:

This Swedish story is quite new to me. I think that I ought to have heard it as I live in Sweden - are you quite sure that it really happened here?

Fritz

...don't count out lever guns such as the Winchester Model 88. This rig, chambered to .308 Win, will handle nearly any deer situation.

Yes i ame sure it happened in Sweden.
There was an article in one of the Swedish huntingmagazines.
The injuried was a gunsmith who should test a customers rifle, with the ammo the customer delivered.

I have also discussed this incidence with Kennet Skoglund at Norma, where they have done som tests on this combination because they have produced the ammo. As he said the 7mmrem in a 270wea gives a surprisingly high peakpresure..

I've read your and Stefan's commentaries on my input. Obviously I had missed or forgotten that story.

Anyway, a quite unpleasant accident for the shooter.

Fritz

Rick, I believe where we differ is I don't think the people who have done this are the same people putting oil in their radiator or not knowing the difference between a gas and a brake pedal, at least not all of them, some are sure to be idiots. It can happen happen to anyone, and if a person doesn't think it can happen to them then they're in trouble IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
Rick, I believe where we differ is I don't think the people who have done this are the same people putting oil in their radiator or not knowing the difference between a gas and a brake pedal, at least not all of them, some are sure to be idiots. It can happen happen to anyone, and if a person doesn't think it can happen to them then they're in trouble IMO.

I guess I need to insert more smiley faces into some of my posts.

Did you REALLY think that I was serious with either of those analogies...even though I only used one of them. The radiator deal wasn’t mine!

There are many things in this world that I know for a fact happen...and I even know why most of them happen...but that doesn’t make it any easier to understand.

quote:

Did you REALLY think that I was serious with either of those analogies...even though I only used one of them.

Well, if it would have been anyone else I would have thought the writer was just joking, but when I saw it was Rick I figured it was serious.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Did you REALLY think that I was serious with either of those analogies...even though I only used one of them.

Well, if it would have been anyone else I would have thought the writer was just joking, but when I saw it was Rick I figured it was serious.

Actually calling you a little twit was about the last serious comment I have made on this forum.

I don’t think you would ever load the wrong ammo though...after all BB’s only come in one size!!

quote:

Originally posted by x-51:
Is that the bolt head from a Savage rifle in the picture?

Yes, it was shot in a Savage long action. The shooter walked away unscathed and except for the not bein able to open the bolt you couldn't see anything wrong with the gun. The Savage handled the failure perfectly.

Say what you want about "cheap" Savages, they are safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by x-51:
Is that the bolt head from a Savage rifle in the picture?

Yes, it was shot in a Savage long action. The shooter walked away unscathed and except for the not bein able to open the bolt you couldn't see anything wrong with the gun. The Savage handled the failure perfectly.

Say what you want about "cheap" Savages, they are safe.

I’m too stupid to know how to post pictures on here, but if you PM me with an email address I’ll send you a picture of a Savage that looks like a peeled banana. The top of the front receiver ring is completely gone (not just broken up, its GONE!) and the side rails with small parts of the side receiver ring still attached are bent out like someone took a splitting wedge and whacked it on the face of the receiver.

Fjold, here is the savage action from Rick. Looks like a steel banana --- no whipping cream.

Mr. “Analog-Man†thanks you, Chic! As you know from the other day I haven’t even figured out my new cell phone yet, let alone how to post pictures on here.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Fjold, here is the savage action from Rick. Looks like a steel banana --- no whipping cream.

I'm guessing a factory round did this???

Meant to ask you malm, did you ever find out any more about this gun or the circumstances of the accident?

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
http://www.subguns.com/boards/reloadingarchive.cgi?noframes;read=4022

Man...reading that made me shiver. Really scary stuff, hope people take note of it.

Rick, and Dempsey......There actually used to be a tractor called the "Oilpull". It used oil, instead of water, in a crude radiator, to cool the engine...Also, back during WWII, it was not unheard of to put number 10 oil in the radiator of an old jalopy, when antifreeze was rationed. It worked fairly well, and sure didn't freeze in the winter. Grant.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Meant to ask you malm, did you ever find out any more about this gun or the circumstances of the accident?

Haven't heard a thing. I am waiting with baited breath though. Can you imagine, you've got the game in your crosshairs, you gently squeeze the trigger and... The unbelievable part is that they couldn't locate the scope.

quote:

Originally posted by malm:
...The unbelievable part is that they couldn't locate the scope.

Yeah, those "Redfield Style" rear Scope Bases aren't very strong.

I wonder if people are not completely honest with themselves.....

At the moment I get up at 0545 for stalking. In 2 months time I have to get up at 0330 for first light. Do that 3-4 times a week and mistakes start to look a little more likely .

I shoot 6mm rem, 6.5x55 and 7x57 all in remington brass and a 30-06 in Norma brass. Bolts and ammo are kept in standard places in the cabinet and I do check I've got the right ammo before I go (different colour ballistic tips are a great help) and before I start loading - but check all the rounds in the box..... No doubt that my 98s would fire 6mm rem or the 6.5x55 (US brass with .473 head) in the 7x57 or any of them in the 06.

Must be more careful!

quote:

Originally posted by Oldmodel70:
Rick, and Dempsey......There actually used to be a tractor called the "Oilpull". It used oil, instead of water, in a crude radiator, to cool the engine...Also, back during WWII, it was not unheard of to put number 10 oil in the radiator of an old jalopy, when antifreeze was rationed. It worked fairly well, and sure didn't freeze in the winter. Grant.

Pardner,

I didn’t make the comment about oil in the radiator, someone else did.

When I was going through school I worked at a local gun range mostly for the free shooting it provided. This provided countless "war" stories and numerous hours of laughter which turned into an appreciation for the ignorance of the general public.

One night, while sweeping up brass on the rifle range, I happened across a pile of odd looking rounds. There was a FULL BOX of 7mm Rem Mag ammo that all looked like the 308 in the picture above...split down the neck and shoulder and blown out to what I am thinking was a 7 STW...but who knows. Not one round...but 20 of them! You would think intuition would have kicked in after the first or second funny looking spent case.

the guy I worked for at a gun range while at university shot a 308 through a 25-06 out the test port in the back of the shop. the whole right side of the action blew out into his face (left handed shooter) welded the bolt shut and the bullit was just sticking out of the end of the bore about .25 in it was a sako and a customers rifle. it burned a hole in the right side of the action and bug chunks of the stock action magazine trigger scope were all over the place we were all in the other room heard this huge boom then dull thud of dude hitting floor and jingling of little pieces of rifle raining around him he recovered fully with some scars after short hospital stay

Too embarrassing to admit but it is true that I chambered a 308 round in my 270 two weeks ago. I was lucky enough to have caught it and rejected the round. I don’t know how this could have happened but it did. Somehow luck is on my side.

As a safety measure, I will only have one ammo box on the bench at a time. Every time I switch rifle I will switch ammo box. Any better routine you can suggest?


Danny

Friend was at the local range shooting his .338-416 Rigby Imp. Also had some 300 Ultra rounds in another box, on his bench. A curious bystander asked about the new Ultra round and was shown one by the shooter. The visitor put the round back into the wrong box and it ended up in the chamber. After a couple of "clicks" instead of "bang" the shooter discovered the error. Both are non-belted cases and there could have been quite a mess had the Ultra gone bang. It was a Wby Mk5, set up for single shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boy:
Too embarrassing to admit but it is true that I chambered a 308 round in my 270 two weeks ago. I was lucky enough to have caught it and rejected the round. I don’t know how this could have happened but it did. Somehow luck is on my side.

As a safety measure, I will only have one ammo box on the bench at a time. Every time I switch rifle I will switch ammo box. Any better routine you can suggest?


Danny

That is the best way to do it. Heck, I have two .223's, and have seperate boxes (and headstamps) for each. But I am a bit paranoid.

quote:

Originally posted by NEJack:

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boy:
Too embarrassing to admit but it is true that I chambered a 308 round in my 270 two weeks ago. I was lucky enough to have caught it and rejected the round. I don’t know how this could have happened but it did. Somehow luck is on my side.

As a safety measure, I will only have one ammo box on the bench at a time. Every time I switch rifle I will switch ammo box. Any better routine you can suggest?


Danny

That is the best way to do it. Heck, I have two .223's, and have seperate boxes (and headstamps) for each. But I am a bit paranoid.

I would call that smart, not paranoid.

quote:

Originally posted by malm:

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Fjold, here is the savage action from Rick. Looks like a steel banana --- no whipping cream.

I'm guessing a factory round did this???

That looks similar the Sako failures with the bad batch of stainless barrels that they had. Was this one from a barrel obstruction?

No, the owner claims it was a factory round. The barrel was intact. The brass was still in the chamber, but of course, the case head was gone as was most of the rest of the gun.

this is consistant with my theory that the crf actions do not stand up to the serious errors we make as shooters and reloaders.
here's the PF bolt.....


and here's a CRF bolt.....

Wipe your eye's Vapo and look again.

quote:

Originally posted by malm:
Wipe your eye's Vapo and look again.

My eyes are just fine.....my point is the cutouts for the casehead is typical for the CRF...yes...the bottom photo is not a crf....but the case head is unsupported just the same as a CRF...

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by malm:
Wipe your eye's Vapo and look again.

My eyes are just fine.....my point is the cutouts for the casehead is typical for the CRF...yes...the bottom photo is not a crf....but the case head is unsupported just the same as a CRF...

You are wrong. The bottom photo IS a CRF. I was wrong in that I didn't notice that! Sorry...

quote:

Originally posted by malm:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by malm:
Wipe your eye's Vapo and look again.

My eyes are just fine.....my point is the cutouts for the casehead is typical for the CRF...yes...the bottom photo is not a crf....but the case head is unsupported just the same as a CRF...

You are wrong. The bottom photo IS a CRF. I was wrong in that I didn't notice that! Sorry...

Do you know if this was a WSM cartridge?
I was trying to find a polite way to ask "are you sure that's a pushfeed"? The first WSMs made by Savage had the regular size barrel shanks and a modified CRF which they later made larger for safety considerations.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
"are you sure that's a pushfeed"? The first WSMs made by Savage had the regular size barrel shanks and a modified CRF which they later made larger for safety considerations.

Fjold, if you're referring to this photo


the only time I've ever personally seem that design from Savage is in the RUM chamerings. Not to say they didn't also use it else where.

As to CRF or PF.....well...by my definition a CRF is a bolt that actually grasps the case head as the round feeds up out of the magazine....or in other words the bolt does not have to close on a chambered round to extract the round.

Your guess is as good as mine if that is a crf or not. Personally I don';t like it.....but then I don't own any Savages.