If you need to lose weight, take a look at these photos before each meal.

Dear Forrest B:

Well, that does it, the last six superfluous pounds on my frame will be gone today.

The second photograph with the hole drilled right through the upper receiver lug always brings tears to my eyes.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

well, there's a bubba'ed up loose barrel take'em down ... wonder who owns the top rifle, i could sure enough make em an offer .. might even buy em a brand new rem710 with scope and bore sighted, as a swap

ForrestB, don't you understand, those are IMPROVEMENTS.

I think Forrest is referring to the gag factor of weaver style bases on these rifles.
To me it's like putting on a Tuxedo with a pair of barn boots.
Al tho, I would like to see more pictures of the Obendorf TD.

James

wonder how deep they drilled the holes?????.... .... vague resemblance to the 1's ive got on my burns/enfield.....

And let's not forget the altered bolt handles, recessed stocks. I bet they have white-line ventilated recoil pads too.

No kidding! Talley bases and rings would look So much better.

Makes me want to go out and screw some really low weaver bases on all of my Mauser sporters just like was recently suggested on here.

Thanks for posting these inspirational photos.

Forrest

That first picture made me throw up in my mouth. What a waste.

Those have to be the most expensive Weaver bases in history. What a shame. What is worst is that some smith actually drilled those holes and installed those bases.

quote:

Originally posted by M1Tanker:
Those have to be the most expensive Weaver bases in history.

Easily.

It is plain the owner thought all a scope mount has to do is be totally dependable, strong, adaptable to a number of different ring manufacturer's offerings and offer absolute repeatability when removing and replacing the scope. What a Rube!
How much better off he would have been to use some obscure European offering which would offer several advantages; not the least of which would be the opportunity to make more of his money work for him! In addition, a nice, high set of mounts would allow him to stretch his neck out for each shot. Relaxing.
Seriously, there is no excuse for drilling into the locking lug abutment but whether or not a mounting system has sufficient snob appeal means little to me. Those steel Weaver bases, while a bit on the plain side, are functionally, one of the best base systems available. Since hole spacings are standard (except for some of those European offerings), one can always substitute a more exclusive mount when hunting with the more high toned set. Regards, Bill

Well met Mr. Leeper.

I wonder how much value the rifle lost once modified, 50%-75%?

That's just so bad.

Terry

So if the owner wanted to hunt with these rifles and felt that he needed a scope and asked you for advice, what would you suggest?

I think a red dot sight on either of those would be so very appropriate! Or better yet...a 6x24 Asian assembled variable with see-through mounts.

These are both really nice rifles-the stuff dreams are made of! There is nothing wrong with drilling the action for scope bases,IMO.These are nice,low,simple type bases that get the scope down for quick shooting and great balance.I find top heavy rifles highly undesirable for offhand shooting.I prefer 3 down instead of 4 or 5 for the same reason.Slim and elegant is the way to go.

Shootaway, you are absolutely right in that those are private property and as such, the owner can do what they want.

The bigger point you seem to have missed is that the value of those two collector pieces was slashed when that was done. Fine and rare rifles may be private property. But, as is often said here, one should think of oneself as a caretaker for such things so that future generations can enjoy them for what they were meant to be.

quote:

JBrown: So if the owner wanted to hunt with these rifles and felt that he needed a scope and asked you for advice, what would you suggest?

I would suggest he scope another rifle and use it instead unless he just doesn't care about desecrating a valuable collector item.

quote:

JBrown: So if the owner wanted to hunt with these rifles and felt that he needed a scope and asked you for advice, what would you suggest?

I'd explain to him that it would cost him about $4000 to scope it. When he got through telling me off, I'd tell him why. Then I bet he'd either put it up for sale or put it back in the house. If not, and he still wanted to drill and tap it and he wouldn't sell it to anyone, I suppose I'd do it. A guy's gotta eat and pay bills. Like Duane says: The guy wants a blue suit he gets a blue suit.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Shootaway, you are absolutely right in that those are private property and as such, the owner can do what they want.

The bigger point you seem to have missed is that the value of those two collector pieces was slashed when that was done. Fine and rare rifles may be private property. But, as is often said here, one should think of oneself as a caretaker for such things so that future generations can enjoy them for what they were meant to be.

I agree, if one is not planning on hunting with it.What if someone wants to hunt with it and needs a scope? I don't see any other way.When there is a valid purpose for the holes to be there,they deserve to be overlooked.I believe that they are only ugly when there was an easier way of doing it and should not be there.

There are all sorts of screws on the sides of double rifles and sometimes they are engraved over or between with very expensive picture scene engraving.Perhaps screws can be made to hide the holes when the bases are off.

Hell, boys, a man gotta see whut he shootin' at, ain't he?

Y'all are jist actin' like a buncha snobs.

I'm more amused with this place every day.

Terry

I heard a story of a local gunshop having a double rifle brought in for an estimate of value. The gunsmith came out from the back to be stunned by a best quality Holland and Holland side lock... only to be further stunned when he saw a rather crooked one-piece weaver base screwed to the quarter rib.

The story was that a recent generation had decided the family heirloom needed an Aimpoint.

I never heard what became of it.

Of course they are the customer's property to do with as he pleases, but I hope that the gunsmith, if he used one, at least adviced him against it. The only way to even think about adding a scope to either of those rifles is with a Griffin $ Howe or Jaeger detachable side mount...adding elegance to elegance. Those Weavers and that $4.95 Numrich safety just don't belong there.

"WOW" Thats a real shame ...I love the bolt handle on the take down.
Had this been my rifle and I wanted to use the sights and a scope, I'd would have had to go with a pair of SEE THRU scope bases!

Here's the funny part, guys, If you want them, H&H will fit those bases to your special order rifle. Given the stippling on those bases on the first rifle, that may well be the case here. The quality of work could easily be that of such a shop. Competent but not too special.
I don't find either of those bolt handles offensive in the least. In addition, the safety, which may or may not be a 4.95 Numrich item, is also perfectly acceptable and I have seen such on quality bolt action rifles for years.
Look, I dislike homely, slipshod, work as much as the next guy but the work done on these appears to be of decent quality; if you discount the poorly located bases on rifle #2.
I have turned down a few drill and tap jobs over the years when I felt the rifle shouldn't be altered (the first 270 to leave the factory was one of them. A very nice Mauser sporter was another.)but if the pictured rifles were mine, I might very well have done just as was done to them (except for those misplaced bases!). The option would be to sell them (and I would, typically, lose my ass anyway. Alterations are totally unnecessary. The fact that Leeper owns a rifle seems to be sufficient to drive it's value into the basement. I only had one customer who was as bad at trading and selling as I am. He and I traded an action back and forth for quite some time until neither of us could afford the "boot" any more. I think I paid him 200.00 to keep the action and he gave me 200.00 to put a used barrel on it. We split the cost of a Fajen stock and he gave the rifle to his nephew to get it out of our lives!) and replace them with something I could use.
A detachable side mount is nice enough but, let's face it, the installation of such might hurt the value of the rifles just as much or more than the installation of conventional top mount bases.
I apologise to those of you with more cultivated tastes. As a poor man from a poor background, I sometimes lean too much to the utility side of things. Why else would I still hunt with a Lee Enfield?! Regards, Bill.

Bill you da man. I agree with you whole heartedly. The only remark I would make is that if you think you do a piss poor job of trading and selling you have never watched me in action at a good gun show. I could walk in to a gun show with a matched set of Purdy's and come out hours later after lots of astute negotiating with a used model 1100 and be very happy that it only cost me a $100 to boot.

I'd hunt in the rain with it too!!

The funny thing is that they think it is worth $5000.00+ the way it is and won't conside a reasonable offer.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
The funny thing is that they think it is worth $5000.00+ the way it is and won't conside a reasonable offer.

they thought my $750 offer wasn't "acceptable" .. LOL, I offered to pay for shipping

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
Of course they are the customer's property to do with as he pleases, but I hope that the gunsmith, if he used one, at least adviced him against it. The only way to even think about adding a scope to either of those rifles is with a Griffin $ Howe or Jaeger detachable side mount...adding elegance to elegance. Those Weavers and that $4.95 Numrich safety just don't belong there.

Yeah, four holes on the side of the action are better than four on the top, and with the side mount you get to butcher the stock also....

With the weaver mounts as shown in the photo the new owner could have them replaced with whatever he likes. Maybe claw mounts?

Will the targets the bullets hit have any appreciation for how allegedly unattractive those rifles are? Just askin'...

The animal, Target, bullet, Will not care one little bit.
But it's as out of place as brown shoes and a tux.
I think weaver/Picatiny style bases have there place But not one a custom rifle.
Give me Talley PLEASE

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
I think weaver/Picatiny style bases have there place But not one a custom rifle.
Give me Talley PLEASE

Talley rings look much better that any Weaver style rings I have seen. The only problem with Talleys is that they mount the scope higher than some of us like.

A couple of years ago, I bought an Oberndorf Type B in 9.3x62, from a guy I have known for years, this after trying to buy it for some 16 years.

I had EAW "swing" mounts professionally installed by one of the oldest and most respected gunshops in Vancouver, BC and all seem well. The rifle shoots "lights out" and handles very well.

The previous owner happened to be at my place sometime later and was looking into one of my gunsafes and spotted this rifle. In his affected and false "British" accent, he loudly declaimed "you have vandalized it".....I jost laughed at this nonsense, as the chap in question is a city boy with NO bush-hunting experience and continually buys and sells rifles to give himself the feeling that he IS "Lord Eustace Percy Lancelot Chomondeley-Petcherbum...all Canucks know ths type.

The FACT is that I want to SHOOT and USE this fine old piece and that is what it was built for. I have four original P-64 Mod. 70 Alaskans in .338WM and YES, I hunt them in pouring rain and even on horses.....bloody bounder that I am!

Brno ZG-47s in 9.3x62, 21/22 rifles in divers chamberings and other "rare" guns, I own 'em, I PAID for 'em and I D&T, scope, use and hunt with ALL of them and fully intend to continue.

Guess I have something in common with Leeper, I see no point in not using a rifle and, I HATE those clunky G&H sidemounts, even the EAW ones sre a royal pita. I like the steel Weavers, better than Talleys and use them a lot as they work.

Actually, it is a very symbiotic relationship between those who buy irreplaceble antiques only to mutilate them and ruin their value, and those of us who seek investment artifacts.

Each time one of you halves the value of your possesion, you increase the value of ours by some percent. Keep up the good work!

I am a gunnut, hunter, mountainman and retired wilderness worker, I am not an urban "collector" of old guns, I use mine and often. I do NOT ...mutilate... guns and do not alter truely pristine, unfired ones, but, I DO customize rifles that are 95% or so and I have guys like Ralf Martini do my work....which ENHANCES the value of a slightly used Brno 21 or P-64 Mod. 70.

Investment is fine, but, guns are for using, not for hoarding and gloating over like some latterday Uriah Heep.