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This reminds me of conversations with My Bride about her own game-hunting tools, that is, her hair, clothes, decollettage, makeup, jewelry, etc.(VBG) I tell her that she needs to decide whether she wants to look her most attractive to men or be praised by her female friends, 'cause she FOR SURE can't have both at the same time!

Same way with 'desecration', you gotta decide whether you want a better game-hunting tool or whether it's more important to look acceptable to your friends.

If your concern is about ergonomics or reliability, then it's valid IMO. If your concern is about cost or Political Correctness or snob appeal then IMO you probably need a reality check.

BTW the top safety looks like an FN one. IMO the left-side FN wing is absolutely, hands down, THE BEST 2-position Mauser safety ever invented for scope use. The factory Brno 21 is good also and IMO maybe even a little better for iron sight use than the FN since it's lower, but I really like the simplicity and reliability of the FN with a scope on a non-DGR.

Sorry, I know it isn't Politically Correct to praise such an inexpensive non-snob accessory. And HORRORS, it's actually a FACTORY product, so how could ANY self-worshipping snob hold his head up among his peers?(G)

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Weaver mounts either. But it's because they're sharp-edged, awkward and ugly, not because I didn't spend enough.
Regards, Joe


__________________________
You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think.
NRA Life since 1976. God bless America!
 
Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Bad form. I apologize to Dewey and the rest of the board.


"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
 
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003Reply With Quote
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And I have my eye on a 1932 Packard V-12 roadster in pristine original unrestored condition. If I buy it, I'll replace the engine with a big block Chevy crate motor and of course a killer sound system, the kind with a huge amp and ultimate bass speakers. And maybe an air conditioner from J.C. Whitney. I like to get out on the road you know, not one of those snobs who keeps his cars in a climate controlled warehouse.


NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS.
Shoot & hunt with vintage classics.
 
Posts: 9487 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 11 January 2002Reply With Quote
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...Lowest common denominator..., well, your rant certainly demonstrated that, but, I suppose that is to be expected from a ...Bubba..., eh?

I was just looking at a 1940 Packard coupe in Osoyoos, B.C. a week ago, yesterday. This is in Canada's "desert" country, not quite the same thing as you have in Texas, but, there were a 1927 Nash, a Hudson of about the same vintage and many other old and decrepit vehicles, plus this Packard under a shelter of aluminum panels.

I like to see these old cars restored, although most here were grabbed by American "collectors" and "hot rodders" in the '60s and '70s, plus the BC climate is really hard on them, so, they are few and far between. The Packard is VERY original and with a good going over by a pro mechanic who specializes in such work, it would once again purr along the highways of the Similkameen and Okanogan, radio playing and passengers in a reverie of the fabulous BC of long ago.

I will stick to guns and leave such other "goodies" to those who know more about them.

Funny, the wear from it's life as a working tool in Africa that is on my Obie 9.3 is perfectly acceptable, it would seem, yet, any use I put it to in wilderness B.C. is somehow a desecration? Whatever, it is a foolish argument and I agree with Bill Leeper and the others who carefully use their guns.
 
Posts: 2366 | Location: "Land OF Shining Mountains"- British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 20 August 2006Reply With Quote
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This Packard doesn't need restoring, like new in 1932, but I'm gonna make it better, more to MY liking. To hell with those snob purists who say "leave it alone, it's valuable", I can afford it and I'll do what I want! middlefinger


NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS.
Shoot & hunt with vintage classics.
 
Posts: 9487 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 11 January 2002Reply With Quote
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And I gotta ask myself what we'd think if folks like Harry Pope, Seymour Griffin, James Howe, A.O.Niedner, Augie Pachmayr and others had said, "Oh, that superb (Ballard, Mauser, Springfield, Winchester, substitute whatever name you worship here) is simply TOO CLASSICALLY ORIGINAL for me to desecrate with my alterations so I'll just leave it in original condition for posterity!"

Bah.

If curious folks had never tried to improve on the originals then we'd still be using rocks & clubs and living in caves.

Picture it(G), I can see it all now(BG), by the light of the fire the old cave man patriarch is holding up a large jagged rather unwieldy rock and praising its pure old-time original form and shape, while a younger cave man is over in the corner busy experimenting, making different sizes and shapes of rocks to see if he can improve their performance. The old cave man notices his companion's activities and immediately starts remonstrating with him about the 'desecration' of the older original rocks........(VBG, I couldn't resist, please pardon)

If you like those old original rocks then buy some of them and preserve them (that's what I do) but please don't criticize others for wanting to make some of those old rocks work better (I do that too).
Regards, Joe


__________________________
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Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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I cried about my shoes until I saw a man with no feet. Be happy with what you have, be happy for others for what they have, and stop arguing.
 
Posts: 7090 | Registered: 11 January 2005Reply With Quote
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J.D. makes the point I consider most realistic on this issue and his approach is identical to mine.

I seek out and buy certain rifles BECAUSE of their utility, not, because they are "rare" and "may" appreciate in value. I do not modify really choice specimens and would not, but, opening the mount holes to 8/40 and installing a good synthetic stock on a P-64 Alaskan in .338 or .375, as mine are, is not defacing an original, IMO.

We are talking about production rifles here, not, "The Pieta" and some of the extreme rhetoric is both uncalled for and ludicrous.

I will BET that if the two with the aggressive comments were to find a Brno 21/22 rifle with a completely "toasted" bore, they would be only TOO happy to have a fine custom rifle built by a top maker on this action. I notice that such people are always eager to try to pay lowball prices for original parts from rare rifles, could they by making up "collectibles" from these and considering the products of that exercise to be "rare" artifacts, etc.?

"Horses for courses", IMO and while I will NOT modify my minty pair of ZG-47-.30-06s or my nearly mint 21H-7mm, I have no difficulty in modifying a rifle that has a broken stock, ruined bore or holes drilled in it long before collecting such rifles became popular and they were just bushman's tools.
 
Posts: 2366 | Location: "Land OF Shining Mountains"- British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 20 August 2006Reply With Quote
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why not issue sharpies with tickets to the louvre?


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

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Posts: 40010 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Dewey, I understand where you are coming from but the fact is those rifle's are pristine and not rebuilt wrecks. I would bet with the amount of value "lost" when these rifles were modified the owner could have built a scoped rifle and come out far ahead financially. I'm sure some will say resale value doesn't matter as long as they get what they want. We'll in this case it does/did because both rifles are for sale and will suffer greatly from the bad choices thier previous owners made while in thier ownership.

Terry


--------------------------------------------

Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
 
Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Good point and I agree, I simply tend to be rather pragmatic about guns as they are tools first to me. I could have bought a very sanitary Brno 21F in 8mm a couple of years ago, for $695.00 CDN, but, passed as I could not bring myself to D&T that lovely receiver...but, I told the guy I mentioned that I would, to a chorus of howls, moans and assorted noises......

The really difficult one is finding ZGs with a minty action that are otherwise fubared and I would prefer one of them to any Obie I have ever examined. I have a 9.3x62 and decided against installing the Satterlee safety on it that I got from you just to keep it original...so, although I am a Canuck Viking "barbarian", I am not immune to the blandishments of the "pukka Sahib" class........ Wink
 
Posts: 2366 | Location: "Land OF Shining Mountains"- British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 20 August 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
why not issue sharpies with tickets to the louvre?

I hope you're not trying to compare a 'limited-edition' Manet print (production rifle like an Oberndorf Mauser A or B) to a one-off original oil by Manet (custom Mauser by Ralf Martini or G&H). Sorry, that's a little too extreme for me.
Regards, Joe


__________________________
You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think.
NRA Life since 1976. God bless America!
 
Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Yeah,Dewey, I've got a minty 21H carbine in 7X57 that I would love to put a low bolt handle and 3-position safety on. Because the action and stock would need to be permanantely altered I just can't bring myself to do it and settled on a VERY high set of Conetrol mounts. It's only worth a fraction of what the rifles pictured would draw in original condition.

On your ZG-47 couldn't you just get a new firiing pin, cocking piece and trigger; then get have the parts fitted and timed? I would think you could switch back to original and not have any permanate alterations. Sort of like having your cake and eating it too.

Personally, I like the ZG-47 safety!

Terry


--------------------------------------------

Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
 
Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002Reply With Quote
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I have a plethora of "bubbaed up" Mausers. Most all of them have Weaver bases. A couple have Numrich wing safteys. I dont mind either, then again none of mine are collectors items. They were all made from relativley low value actions and some were already altered. However! If I had one of the rifles pictured in their original condition I would NOT have altered them. Its not a snob thing, just common sense. They are now worth less then they were worth before. Better to have sold them and used the $$ to build a custom to your desires.

My Dad once had an original Oberndorf Sporting rifle in 300 savage. Before he bought it from a pawn shop back in the '60s, a previous owner tried a "do it yourself" scope mounting job and screwed up the driling job. It was enough to make a grown man cry. If that gun was still around I would have a competent smith fill the holes and restore it to original. Not a damn thing wrong with a Classic rifle in its original configuration.



AK-47
The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like.
 
Posts: 10188 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001Reply With Quote
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What are you crying about. Basically it is just a pait of rebuild Mausers. In Sweden you can by rifles like this in bundles for less than 100$ each. The top one a little cheaper, because of the poor wood quality.

Another thing about all you eksperts, please come up with a tecknical argument for not drillimg in the frontlug. The hole would be positioned in the most beefy area, where there is no thrust from the upper lug, due to the ejectorsplit.

There might be a bit of humor and ironi used above, but frankly i have seen way to manny of those old ratteling mausers, to become excited, by a couple of ordinary ones
 
Posts: 571 | Registered: 16 June 2005Reply With Quote
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