The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Polishing the inside of your actionGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Several people have asked me about polishing the inside of an action, and I’ve just had the opportunity to photo one I’m working on. I use a 320 grit mold stone. A 3/4” x 1/4” stone will need to be made a little narrower to fit in the raceways of the action. I usually use an old file to shape them to size. The piece I use is longer than the one in the photo (they can break when you drop them on concrete), but I start by placing it into the raceway, and moving it back and forth. Some have recommended ATF for lubrication. I use water. Either way, you need some sort of handle to move the stone. I use a small screwdriver or old file.   A longer stone (which this one was) will bridge the gap over the thumb cut-out. This will ensure that you're keeping the surface straight. The stone will start out flat on the bottom, but it will break down with use and conform to the same shape you’re polishing.  By exerting a little left or right force, you can use the square edge of the stone to polish the top and bottom sides too.  You want to use the same stone to polish the opposite side on the rear bridge as well. You can also use this same stone to polish the area where the bolt body rides. The areas are shaped differently, but the stone will break down to the contour you’re working on.  You want to take long, even strokes, and don’t get too impatient. Go slowly to remove all of the tooling marks, and the results are worth the effort. Much more efficient that the advice to cycle your bolt a few hundred times… | ||
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What about gluing that stone to a stick or piece of stock for a handle? Will that work? | |||
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I've tried that, but went back to this way. 1) gluing / curing is time consuming. 2) I find that this gives me more control in how and where pressure is applied. But that's just me... maybe it will work for others. | |||
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Being more of an Alaskan gun plumber - rather than a real smith - I cut off a foot section broom handle and shaped it flat on top and bottom - so it fit the rails - and wrap a piece of fine grip emory paper around it and use it to hone the flats and sides. I use a piece of round dowel slightly smaller than bolt body with another piece of emory around it for the bottom. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I like your ideas and photos...thanks!! Duane | |||
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Hot melt .. Glue gun.. apropo
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Gesswein at Gesswein.com sells a power reciprocating tool if you do a lot of that work. Gesswein peddles the tools and materials used by many plastic injection mold makers to polish the molds Reciprocating stoning tool | |||
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When the machining marks are completely polished out, does the increase in ID and in the looseness of the bolt body in the receiver bore affect accuracy. In other words, does the bolt get sloppy enough to actually matter? BTW, the visual effect is quite impressive, a detail that many will see, but few will realize what they are looking at until it is pointed out to them. Nice work! Mike Mike Ryan - Gunsmith | |||
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Mike - Material is obviously being removed, and this will increase the tolerances. However, we’re talking about very, very little material being removed. Think of the tool/machine marks as having peaks and valleys: we’re just knocking off the peaks to smooth out the valleys into a nice flat surface. The only thing you’ll notice is a much smoother operating action. | |||
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New Guy Could you show us a photo of one of your completely polished (inside and out) actions. | |||
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The one I've been working on is almost done.   That's our own Duane Wiebe's bottom metal by the way. | |||
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Beautiful work. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Chris, that is looking good. 9,3x62? English "tooth pick" stock? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Is there another type?  Caliber is 404. | |||
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Nice work. Makes me happy to see soemone going the extra mile in an attempt to make everything "right!"  i use JB weld to stick my stones on aluminum handles. THink they are 1/4x3/4 stock or something like that. If you do some searches Jack Belk made a lot of posts here about 7-8 years ago and many folks have his Word doccument polishing files. Much of it was published in ACGG's "Gunmaker" last year. Don Klein also had a stoning article in there last year. I used Belk's info to do things the way I do them today. I keep all of my stones (150, 220, 320, 400, 600 grits) seperated into different Tupperware containers with ATF in them. Keeps the stones well lubricated and aids in metal removal and smooth finish. But everyon needs to find a way they like that gives them their desired results. Actually, I have a lot of Tupperware and have seperated my stones not only by grit, but by stone type. I keep EDM and mold maker stones seperate, as well as India and plain aluminum oxide and silicone oxide stones. Going through a big reorganization of stones just this week. It is overkill, but I like things to be organized. Most folks don't need this level of analility!  As for dimensional changes, what is being polished in the pics is where the bolt moves back and forth. That is a totally different bearing surface than where the bolt is at lock up. so no accuracy degredation will occur. If the round part of the bolt raceway is overpolished, then the bolt can ride too low in the action and I guess sear engagement and firing pin strike location issues can pop up. | |||
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Does this increase any bolt wobble? | |||
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By the by; you asked me if i wanted to shoot your double at the DSC shoot, then you vanished what happning? | |||
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That receiver looks great. Looks like a Persian. | |||
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For a Mauser action being selected to go custom is like winning the lottery, when you consider the millions made. All you have to do is let one Mauser creep its way into your life. Then its all over and its alureing power takes hold. It's got you where it wants you. Polishing it, working it over and over perfecting and perfecting. When you are done with that one, it would be a shame for it to be "lonely". About that time another one creeps its' way into your life and so the story goes. Over one hundred years old and the enthusiasm for it lives strong. What a legacy. Nice work!! Timan | |||
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Really nice work Chris. I guess this is what a guy does when his wife is pregnant.  ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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I think the Brownell's tool is a piece of crap. I would give somebody a decent price. Butch | |||
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Sorry, Bryan. I saw Glenda on the way out and said goodbye. The event obviously ran longer than I (all of us) anticiapated (I hope they speed things up next year), and I had to make a hasty retreat. Good to see both of you though.
I hope you don't know something I don't! We're actually celebrating the little one's first birthday today. As a friend of mine told me (he has 3): "One is not enough and two is too many." | |||
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I guess it does some. Maybe .739%. Do you keep a dial indicator mounted onto your reciever to measure wobble with each bolt stroke? If the anser is "No," then you should not notice any additional bolt wobble! But yes, technically it would be slightly more. One of those things that looks good on paper but in real life just falls through the cracks. This is assuming you do not go ape and polish things far beyond what is required to clean up all tool marks. | |||
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No dial indicator, however, my springfield bolt sometimes closes (wobbles) rough when rapidly reloading for a second shot | |||
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Bryan - you bring up a good point - not about over-polishing, but about bolt fit. I have seen both military and commercial mausers (FNs) with bolt fit that was too slopply for my taste. I've been told that they can be "tightened up" by heating and squeezing the rear ring, but I've avoided that by buying actions that have a good bolt & receiver fit. I also buy good bolts bodies when I can find them. Sometimes another bolt will fit better than the original. | |||
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Be reminded that a Mauser receiver actually has a lot more steel removed in the rear ring. Than the M-70 or the Dakota 76. The 3rd lug cut and the bolt guide rib cut contribute considerably to bolt wobble. I've experimented with bolt VS receiver tolerances. I've found the by making closer tolerance parts. The bolt wobble can be reduced by 50%. I like .007 tolerance bore vs. bolt. This can be maintained when working with a prehard receiver blank. Post machine heat treat (case hardened 8620 receivers) will require bolt receiver tolerances be opened up so they will go back together after heat treat. You can straighten all you want, but it will never be the same. With the more open tolerances the bolt head wants to hit the back of the front ring as the bolt picks up a cartridge. It's true mauser made tolerance for dirt but they also made tolerance for reassembly after case hardening. To make 20 million bolts and receivers getting them all back to the straightness they where machined as would be hilarious. They didn't need perfectly straight receivers and bolts. I think they were after bullets downrange from a safe reliable reasonable accurate system to kill or wound the enemy. Made to easy to manfacture open tolerances. slam bam get it done kind of machining. Timan | |||
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I think the average gun nut would flip if he knew how crooked bolts, receivers and barrels are. | |||
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Chris, Where do you buy mold stone? ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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yeah well you dress funny.  | |||
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i suppose all this leaves out a drill and grindstone huh    | |||
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Interestingly, while reading in Ludwig Olson's book this evening about Wilhelm Brenneke, on Page 264 - " Brenneke also designed a means of preventing the bolt handle from being raised inadvertently and thereby causing a misfire. This consisted of a spring loaded ball in a small box fastened to the right side of the receiver bridge. Also in the small box on the receiver bridge was a spring loaded lever that bore against the extractor and greatly reduced sideward play of the bolt as it was moved rearward." Anybody ever see one of these contraptions? | |||
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I have seen one rifle with a ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene insert in it to reduce bolt wobble. This seemed to do the trick. I have also seen UHMWP inserts in the tips of setscrews used to take the slack out of sliding parts in other applications | |||
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Just a homemade one someone did by putting a coned hole in the receiver bridge and a spring and ball in the rear scope mount. It worked, I wished I saved that thing or at least got pictures. Don | |||
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My efforts to order from Gesswein resulted in the following:to get 24 small stones (about $50) would cost $30 to $70 to ship. Does anyone have a source with more reasonable shipping costs? Thanks. | |||
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It would be fun to see a photo of the completed rifle that the polished action was used for. | |||
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I get them from my local supplier (Msc) their shipping might be cheaper. But I always just picked orders up so maybe not. Don | |||
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I guess it was rust blued "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I have a Brownells tool I would also give someone a great deal, I still prefer my version of Phil's "Alaskan" wooden dowel tool. | |||
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