Jeffe, I do have a dog in there. I have a set of SS Warne scope rings that are still in Ricks possession, I had to pay for some lousy work that I didn't ask for. He didn't do half what I did contract for, or ask for. Took a year more than he said it would. I sent him e-mails and phoned untill I was blue in the face, and finally wrote letters and even sent him a SASE envelope, and the man don't answer, won't answer, so your suggestions don't mean jack squat. Just pee in the wind! What is it you don't understand here, about what I've wrote here. Write, call, wait. Hasn't every one involved here just said that they done all that. What you are suggesting. Your suggestions to do what has been done over and over, over a great period of time is really puzzling, funny in a way. Like what the hippie colony crwd would call real trippy. Enuf said. Wayne

Wayne,
I think all these things have been said, repeatedly. I think John has f'ed this up. I also think that beating and beating and beating the same issue "just aint right" as a texas hayseed would say... or this arkansas one.

Send him another registered letter, as Terry got his reply quickly "now".

Or is the matter than you aren't interested in resolution, rather publicly complaining about it?

Wayne, Be sure to note that I would be of the same opinion if a fella had a trade going bad with you. And have repeatedly said things along the lines of "great, it's out in the open, now fix it"

jeffe

No one has been "beating the issue" for some time, Jeffe, Mostly they have been trying to convince guys like you that what you suggest, writing a letter to the guy will "fix" things. That is the issue. They guy doesn't respond to cummunication, much less fix things, hell, he ain't even there. Getting things out in the open doesn't work with this Ricks fellow. Can't you read? That is what Poulsbo's original post states. The guy is in California, which is really immaterial, because even whe he is home he don't respond.

I'd like to go on to something more pleasant on the subject of guns hunting or something more pleasant, rather than responding to silly catch-22 type suggestions like yours to write letters, when it's been said over and over that the letters have already been wrote and put in the mail with no response, or fix.

Your statement "Wayne Be sure to note" etc is the oldest dirty trick in the book, turning the thing back on a person to insinuate that maybe some trade is going bad with him. Also the most chicken. The attempt to insinuate that maybe I would do a bad trade with someone. Isn't that an an attempt to disparage my rep and put me off on the defense, "Hey everybody, maybe this accuser ain't no angel either and here's how I would feel."

Isn't that what that's all about, Jeffe.

Well my friend, little things like that gives insight into "your character" my good friend, that one I learned from my grandmother and her folk wisdom about dealing with people some 60 yrs ago. "turning it back on the one you've wronged, or intend to wrong, and has caught you out. Imply that maybe he is guilty of something too. Put him off.

Come to think of it, that worked pretty good for OJ, didn't it!

If you read this, go back and read your last post, and think it over, see if you can follow what I'm saying.

Well, maybe I'm just an old frontier dinosaur who's time has passed and I can't adjust to the modern style where what's right is right, and not what is right is what you can get away with or whatever you can make people believe. Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by walex:
Your statement "Wayne Be sure to note" etc is the oldest dirty trick in the book, turning the thing back on a person to insinuate that maybe some trade is going bad with him. Also the most chicken. The attempt to insinuate that maybe I would do a bad trade with someone.Wayne

Wayne,
I will appologize for not being entirely clear on my analogy. i must have come over entirely wrong. I said I would of the same opinion (and have repeatedly been) if a trade went bad. In NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM did i say a negative of you.
Since tone and intonation are impossible to translate over the internet, I have a simple policy... assume good intent. (unless it's AC)

in noy way shape or form did i intend to (by omission) say a negative about you.

jeffe

Just mentioning something like that and throwing it out there would look like intent to any reasonable person. Otherwise, why would one make a statement like that. If it just came out wrong then I can understand that . If I'm just touchy, then sorry about making a fuss about it. I'm more comfortable with the happy mechanic and nuts and bolts of the gun stuff, happier in the shop whitlin' wood than this personality problem business end of it stuff. Wayne

Wayne,
you and me both!!

no bad intent, from my end.

Would be far more fun shooting the stuff around a walnt scrape fire than this part!!

jeffe

How about the paper work that goes with the business end business? Every keep you outa the shop cookin the books instead.. Got enough here in the fish biz too sink the boat, this time of year. Wayne

Amazing thread here, really! I am saddened by the path Mr. Ricks has chosen, his business acumen is, well, of the worst sort to say the least. I hope all ends well for those affected. I know that I don't want to do business with an individual like that.

But, the real reason for my post is that I am very angry at the the post's made by the resident "expert" smith's that have jumped to Mr. Rick's defense. This is not the first time I have seen threads where these experts trash us "assholes" that "waste their time". To me this is simply intolerable! Especially when these experts use this forum to advertise to us "assholes". 'Course, maybe that is why my business goes to some amazingly talented individuals that have successful business's to run and not whine about their occupation. Hmm, maybe that is exactly why I choose them to do my work.

Unbelievable!

Huntr

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Wayne,
I'll ask you a question in answering yours. What does venting on line accomplish, once it's been said?

Actually, I saw a situation resolved due to venting on-line. It was IMPOSSIBLE to resolve with the party in question, but when the dirty laundry was hung out in public often enough, that party finally decided to make it right.

This is not intended to be a commentary on Mr. R., as I wish him the best and I hope his customers will all be satisfied.

HUNTR338

quote:

But, the real reason for my post is that I am very angry at the the post's made by the resident "expert" smith's that have jumped to Mr. Rick's defense. This is not the first time I have seen threads where these experts trash us "assholes" that "waste their time". To me this is simply intolerable! Especially when these experts use this forum to advertise to us "assholes". 'Course, maybe that is why my business goes to some amazingly talented individuals that have successful business's to run and not whine about their occupation. Hmm, maybe that is exactly why I choose them to do my work.

Unbelievable!

Please show me or anyone else where the resident "expert" defended Ricks. It didnt happen. Bill Leeper who is highly respected as a gunsmith and individual tried to explain what may have transpired. He was not defending him and no one was calling customers "assholes". There may be some but no more than in any other business situation. I have read this whole thread with interest. What is "unbelievable" to me is that you could have put that twist on it. Now if you want to include yourself in the asshole group so be it, it was no one elses call but yours.

None of that or your rant will even be a hill of beans towards getting any of this resolved. I hope that they do get some resolution as some I consider friends. It is disheartening for them to be in this situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Perhaps, instead of being "in on some scam" he is simply working for a contractor. Perhaps he is doing this because he was offered the opportunity to take a job which offered him a better and more certain income for the immediate future. Perhaps he felt that he would be a fool to pass up this opportunity. Maybe he felt he could do this and return to catch up on his gunwork at a later date. Perhaps he should have simply returned all parts and told his customers to "go fish" but perhaps he was sure this would be a temporary hiatus so did not. I don't know. All is conjecture.
I do know that the incidence of "burnout" amongst gunsmiths is fairly common. Whether this is because they are simply poor businessmen or poor time managers (this is often the case)or their customer bases contains a higher percentage of aggravating assholes than is tolerable, it's hard for me to say. It is a bit of a concern though. Especially since so many of these are very competent or even talented gunsmiths.
I hope this situation resolves itself to everyone's satisfaction and John can quit getting this virtual flogging!
I'm a bit behind schedule myself and am feeling pretty nervous! Regards, Bill.

Customstox,
Did ya read this??? The workd asshole was taken from his post.........can ya read? I don't know, am I an asshole, hell, you did work for me before...........and were more than happy to take my money! Maybe it is just after the check clears we become assholes.

Huntr

Huntr

Hunter,
just trying to understand, which of the 6 remaining rifles is yours? Or, perhaps I should say which of the THREE is yours, as i know who/what of at least 3 of the ones he had last.



or, like wayne, you got screwed in a past dealing with him? No, ricks ONLY, as this post is aimed for him, especially.

jeffe

Huntr,
Yes I can read and I do not see him defending Ricks. I see him trying to explain to the folks that do have items in limbo what could have happened. No one knew at that time what all the circumstances were. Bill did mention that his coummunications were poor and that is probably the worst error. If his life is in that much disarray he needs to get it fixed, but he does need to cummunicate and he has failed miserably in that respect. Your anger still seems very misdirected.

Huntr,
Seems a classic case of a statement being slightly twisted out of it's context and intent.
My statement was meant to point out that perhaps a given gunsmith's- or any other tradesmen's for that matter- customer base included more than the usual amount of "aggravating assholes". At no time did I intimate that all customers are assholes or even aggravating. It is a sad but certain fact that some people are!
I was pointing out that, if one was to encounter too many of this group, it might cause him to decide it isn't worth the aggravation to continue in his business. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just that it IS.
Some people, otherwise sterling in character, are not able to handle some of the pressures which others may handle in stride. This may very well be nothing but a personality flaw which is simply hard for those not so afflicted to understand.
I have trouble understanding why a person might have an unreasoning fear of harmless snakes but I know that some do and avoid offering them a snake to handle.
In an attempt to be perfectly clear, I want to emphasise that this may have absolutely nothing to do with this particular case. I'm NOT saying John Ricks, or anybody else on this board, might be personally defficient in any way. I am only trying to say that there are reasons for a certain amount of tolerance in many situations.
This is of course a gate which swings both ways. Sometimes an individual may seem, by his manner, whether in writing or in person, to fall solidy right into the middle of the "aggravating asshole" category. The reality may be that this is only a reflection of his inability to communicate in any other way and not a true reflection of his character. So we, as gunsmiths or, indeed, as human beings, have also to show a certain amount of tolerance as well. Happily, most do. Otherwise, we would all be constantly fighting over slights real or imagined and doing very little work! Regards, Bill.

Jeffeoso, You have a PM.

Boys! What we need here is a mediator, not a moderator.

What's happening here is that that the male juices are boiling over.

If you all have listen to the radio ad lately, you will know that what happens next is that every one will get to much DHT . DEE HAITCH TEE.

Next thing you know your hair will fall out, and you will have to buy their treatment plan.

Or smear camoflage paint over your bald spot when you go hunting.

Wayne

Wayne,
like i said, i aint got my mod hat on... we tend to be light on the controls!!

i am stating my opinion....

and today i find out i know 4 of the 6 rifles he still has...

jeffe

What no come back on the DE-HYDRO-TESTOSTERONE blurb? Thought I'd get blasted on that One!

Nobody touchy about that, or, maybe no one wants to admit to it! HA Wayne

Wayne?
What's DHT do? I've got a full head of hair, so i don't keep up with that
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:

My statement was meant to point out that perhaps a given gunsmith's- or any other tradesmen's for that matter- customer base included more than the usual amount of "aggravating assholes" ... I was pointing out that, if one was to encounter too many of this group, it might cause him to decide it isn't worth the aggravation to continue in his business. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just that it IS.

My view is that once one accepts a commission from an "AA" then that "AA" become a customer and should be treated as such.

If a gunsmith or any professional decides, for whatever reason, to take a sabbatical he should first notify his customers, give them an honest estimate of the duration, and offer to return their parts and deposits if the customer so desires.

Imagine if you dropped your truck off to be serviced and the mechanic thereafter decided he had enough of his "AA" customers and closed up shop for a while. You'd be pretty peeved about not being able to access your vehicle while the mechanic was engaged in a little R&R.

The same is true if you had left paperwork with an attorney, x-rays with a doctor, or semen at the fertility clinic.

I don't personally know any of Mr. Ricks customers, but it sure seems that he's the one being the "AA" in this situation.

ForrestB,

I am totally with you, and I believe this example does not benefit the custom gun trade.
In my opinion, a courtesy call from John Ricks to his customers, would have made all the difference in the world.

Roland

Jeffeoso --- There's a goofy ad on the radio here for a hairloss clinic, and their pitch is that DHT ( D-Hydro- Testosterone) is what makes your hair fall out, and they can cure it for you. It's somewhere in the Rush/ Dr Laura time frame. You probably got more stations where you are, and you don't sound like a Dr Laura fan, so you probably missed it. Wayne

I happen to be a business owner myself, and I agree with Forrestb also. I wouldn't think of stiffing a customer no matter if he was an AA or not. That is not how a successful business is run. I have to deal with many people that some here will call an AA every day of the week. I just look at them as another source of income, and if they are willing to spend their money, I am willing to do the job for them no matter who they are. I happen to own a service station and deal with people with problems all day, some have no idea what they are talking about, and some are just price shopping but that is part of the deal. MHO is that Mr Rick's behavior is way out of line and very unprofessional.

ForrestB,
Once again many have missed my point entirely. I'm really beginning to think my communication skills are non-existent at best.
I said, and I hope I'm able to make this understandable, that dealing with certain types of people or certain pressures might cause a given individual to throw in the towel. At no time did I say a tradesman or any other businessman had the right to keep work or parts or rip off a customer as a response to that customer's personal manner. He does, of course, have the right to refuse the work in the first place or even hand the parts back and tell the ex-customer to hit the road. This is an entirely different matter however and has nothing whatsoever to do with a business failure or a failure to fulfill a contract.
At no time did I say it was acceptable business practice to leave customers in the lurch. I only pointed out the truth and that is that it happens. I then tried, apparently unsuccessfully, to theorize about possible causes.
That some businessmen and women are able to tolerate anything from a customer as long as the dollars are there only illustrates a point I tried to make. Some can do that and some cannot. Some are very tolerant of abuse and some are not. Some can go to sleep at night and leave their job back at the office or the shop and some cannot. Some can tolerate inadequacies in others and some cannot.
Do I think John is right or wrong? I don't judge. Could he have done better for those customers still waiting? Probably.
I have been reminded that John posted on this forum that he was going to be closing his business down and would be completing the work he had on hand as he was able. He also said he was going to be out of touch. Perhaps this posting was unseen or, like many of mine, misunderstood.
As I said previously, this sort of thing is of concern to me simply because I hate to see such things happen. This for the sake of the customers and the gunsmiths involved. Regards, Bill

I imagine that you have looked into anything that may be possible legally. Small claims, in most areas is quite inexpensive. If you have sent mail to him, you must know his address. Just an idea, and one that you more than likely have explored already. Bob

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
I imagine that you have looked into anything that may be possible legally. Small claims, in most areas is quite inexpensive. If you have sent mail to him, you must know his address. Just an idea, and one that you more than likely have explored already. Bob

John Ricks and I have exchanged emails and he has agreed to ship my rifle back. All of this has taken on a life of it's own. John hasn't done anything illegal, He's just late completing the work.

I read on the other post were someone compared him to the BTK killer! Damn

Terry

I have sent John a letter requesting a resolution to my two projects in his possession.
He has a time frame in which to contact me.

I have no hard feelings for John, and I do not wish to prosecute him on this or any other forum. It is just time to move on.

My only suggestion to those with projects in his possession, is to send a certified letter to him, detailing what you want to happen.

Well, after 2 years and the rifle still not done, last weekend I managed to get John to stick around the shop long enough for me drive over and collect my property. I'll have to locate another gunsmith to safety check the work done thus far and to finish the project. In our conversation John basically told me he's really only interested in doing big bore projects. Dang, I wish he'd fessed up to that a looong time ago...

John said he's completing a number of projects (clearly, mine was tail-end charlie) and then was going to focus on other interests. It seems he's going to be around the shop for awhile, so now's the time to contact him if you need to.

Glad that's over,
Pud

John has shipped my two projects to Tip Burns in Canyon Lake, Texas and refunded the monies I had paid to him.

I'm 'Travel'n Texas'this morning. After doing the news, Peggy and I are off to see Tip and talk about the projects. Looking forward to making progress.

I DO NOT have a dog in this fight. I don't know Mr. Ricks, have never had any work done by him, and don't want to comment on any of his relations with his customers.

HOWEVER, I have been buying/building/selling/gunsmithing rifles for over 50 years, so I have a few guidelines I use for my own dealings, which one or more AR readers may find worth thinking about...

1. Gunsmithing, like exotic sports car building, is most often a hobby which more or less becomes a business. Too often, the gunsmith can't separate the two in his own mind. He begins under-capitalized, quickly becomes over-committed, is too dependent on outside suppliers, and has no concept of how to balance his work/life/ hobby schedules.

This almoSt always leads to business failure sooner or later, usually after no more than a very few years.

2. Very few gun-related businesses last more than 3 years in their original business mode...that is, the ownership, business structure, field of specialization, staffing, location, or some combination of the above, change frequently. If you don't believe that, just sit down and try to list half a dozen gunsmiths which have had none of those changes in the past 5 years. Each such change is a business disruption to some degree or another.

3. Business disruptions lead to unhappy customers, so if you want a happy experience all the way around, consider the following as useful guidelines:

A. Try to do business with a person or firm who has had no changes in name, location, or ownership of his business for 5 years or more.

B. For a specialty rifle, pick a reputable supplier who has been firmly established in just that particular specialty for 5 years or more.

C. Any time you opt to deviate from A & B above, consider your investment just the way you would an investment in the stock market. That is, don't expect to be able to say exactly WHEN, or IF, it will pay off, and don't invest ANYTHING you cannot emotionally or financially bear to lose entirely.

I learned these rules the hard way.

I special-ordered a DG magazine rifle from RSA's biggest arms company...it took over 6 years to get delivery. Not because anyone was dishonest, but because of changing governments, retirement of the principal owner, US embargos, my moving to another country, etc. Another time I sent a Magnum Mauser action to Bliss Titus' shop in Utah to get it barreled up in .458 Winnie. Bliss had the audacity to die ithout scheduling it through me, and I eventually had to send John Jobson (former Camping Editor for Sports Afield) and the Sheriff to get my action back as the new shop owner would not even respond to my inquiries...that episode took 3 years to get the action back. One currently famous U.S. barrel manufacturer "lost" my rifle, then when he did "find" it, he did un-ordered work, did not supply the goods asked for, and returned the rifle with a different scope (a cheaper one) than the one it was wearing when sent to them. Others have decided they know what I want (or should want) better than I and have not done work to the specs provided.

There are many other instances too, but the point is simply this...

Anytime you become involved in buying hobby things related to emotions, at least in the guns area, you ARE taking a BIG risk, whether you should be or not.

So, CAVEAT EMPTOR, and at least remember rules A, B, and C, above. They certainly have worked for me since I began using them to temper my judgements as to when/where to purchase either goods or services.

Dear Bill, many thanks for a circumspect, wise and humane posting.

And one gem I wanted to single out:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I do know that the incidence of "burnout" amongst gunsmiths is fairly common. Whether this is because they are simply poor businessmen or poor time managers (this is often the case) or their customer bases contains a higher percentage of aggravating assholes than is tolerable, it's hard for me to say.

Carcano

I have heard from John on May 4th.

Here is what he said:

"As you all are aware, I have been out of the gun shop for some time due to other pressing matters.

I will be returning to shop work starting May 9, approximately Monday through Thursday, to complete the rifles in backlog. I have 7 guns to complete for various customers. I will complete the work as soon as possible while maintaining a quality job.

My apologies for the disruption. The work will be completed and a satisfactory product will be returned to each of you.

I will be checking email nightly and prefer email instead of phone calls as I am trying to maximize shop "hands on" time.

After this workload is complete, I will no longer take in gun work.

Thanks!"

John is competing a 404 Dakota for me on a Brno 602 action. When he took my job in May 2004, he said it would take about 18 months to finish. He is still on target for my work.

I have every faith in John to compete this and his other promised projects, in spite of some setbacks.


Regards,

Bob

I am not going to enter into this fight. I do have considerable experience with custom firearm work over the years and have learned a thing or two.

1. Most custom gunsmiths are not based on a viable business model. There are some; your challenge as the customer is to figure out beforehand if the smith your planning to work with is on a solid business plan. I have heard many post that they can't afford a D'Arcy Echols rifle, yet he and gunsmiths in his class have worked out what it takes to do custom rifles and stay in the game long term. I seperate the viable business interests into two camps, 1. custom gunsmiths that take on complete jobs. 2. Smiths that do only certain work like Dan Lija, Walther, and Krieger, they will not take on work outside their business model or tooling capability. The first group has long established names, Echol's, Ted Yost, Dan Burns, Bauska, Bill Adair, Turnbill, Rons Gunshop, Jarrett, Dave Gentry are just a few.
These guys take time and don't work for free, they do produce as solicited though.

2. Discount pricing: First big clue your going to have issues either in quality or the time it takes to get your rifle completed.

3. Ask up front how long it will take to complete your work, if the answer is 8-12 weeks, use 12 weeks as your baseline and add more time to the estimate in your head. Remember when you are getting an estimate that many smiths won't even start a project until all the parts are together. I am having a model 70 made as we speak, I wanted a Krieger tube but they were quoting around 16 weeks delivery of a barrel, I want the gun for this fall so 16 weeks was too long and I chose another barrel, not the smiths fault at all.

3. Understand how your smith orders parts, many gunsmiths order parts in large orders, they stack up orders until they get a minimum required purchase quanity. This is done for ecomomic reasons to buy their parts at reasonable prices so they can pass this back to you the customer. Find out if this is how your gunsmith does business, it is common practice for smiths that do a lot of barrel work to do this type of purchasing. You need to know up front if your project is in the que on a parts order that isn't going to happen for 6 months. Your options are go get the barrel yourself, pay more so a single order can expedited, or understand the wait and program for it. Yes Brownells is always there to order parts from, but most of us aren't willing to pay for a rifle when all the parts are based on Brownells prices, most dealers are looking for parts that are at least 20% less than Brownells list.

4. If your smith isn't 40+ hours a week doing gunsmithing your on shaky ground from the start. Hobby and part time smiths ( and there are some very good ones ) have other distractions in their lives which they have pre identified are their priorities, what are you going to change when you enter into this customer base? I have seen a couple of handfuls of guys that do checking that do it part time as a hobby. Some are very good, and are very reasonably priced, and a couple are actually pretty good at their turn around times, this is the only instance in the custom gun world I have had any luck with part time work. The smiths that need extensive capital invested in their tooling and machinery I have yet to see work on a part time basis.

5. Gunsmithing is a multi disipline trade. It encompases working in wood, plastic, metal, plating to name a few. Don't presuure your smith to do work he isn't comfortable with. The common areas to expect your gunsmith to outsource are plating, heat treating, fabrication of EDM parts, and checkering. Find out what he doesn't do, ask who he intends to use and get a feel for what these turn around times are, these are very typical delays in the custom gun and I have multiple times instructed my gunsmiths to use a different source on these services because the normal outlet he uses is slower than the the second coming, and I am unwilling to wait 6 to 8 months for something that should be turned around in 6 weeks. My smith that I know and trust is an example on this he absolutly refuses to do any benchrest barrel work. Hard rule, he is very honest and the benchrest guys are very picky and he doesn't belive he gives them what they are looking for, if you ask him he will discuss where to have that work done by smiths that specialize in this work, and he will send it out. He sold his big lathe a few years back because it wasn't generating enough revenue, and simply won't take on that work now.

6. Use gunsmiths you have worked with in the past and had sucessful outcomes if at all possible. If your smith can't do what you want ask him for a recommendation, then do some homework before commiting.

7. And the last safest rule: Buy a factory gun if at all possible before thinking about the custom route, it is a lot more expediant to tweak a factory rifle into what you want.

I called John a week ago Sunday. He answered the phone and what he told me parallels the information that Shadow posted above.

John's had my pre64 Mod 70 action for a 338-06 since Feb 2003. A significant delay occurred, out of John's control, when as we were in the process of ordering the stock, Mel Smart at Acra-Bond passed away... dang, woe is me. I'm sure Mel was bummed too. It was many months before Rod Rogers was able to ship the stock I wanted.

Up until Aug of last year, I felt John's progress was roughly on-track with the original estimate, barring unforeseen delays. Evidently, the difficulties began when a co-owner (non-faimly member) of the family's co-owned construction business in California died suddenly. John went down there to help keep the business alive in the short term and prepare the business to be sold. John is working to complete the backlog of work and he's apologized for the delay.

As I look at John's actions, the only mistake he made on my account is not communicating with me. Other than that, it appears that what he really did was; he sacrificed his business in order to help keep a family member from losing theirs. While I may have been inconvenienced by the situation, I can only conclude that John did the right thing.

For those stirring the pot with the bad-mouthing trash talk on a public forum like this... well, there's a donut rolling somewhere that you're welcome to take a stab at with whatever physical shortcoming you have at hand.

The argument of business practices and customer relations aside for a moment... I couldn't help but wonder if some of the people posting on this thread realize that a fairly good set of directions to Mr. Rick's home/business were posted on here along with information that he is away from that home/business for a prolonged period of time...and that he seems to have a large supply of firearms stored at that home/business?

Whether you love the guy or hate the guy, is this really a smart thing to post on a public forum? Especially since some of you have rifles sitting there at said home/business???

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
I couldn't help but wonder if some of the people posting on this thread realize that a fairly good set of directions to Mr. Rick's home/business were posted on here along with information that he is away from that home/business for a prolonged period of time...and that he seems to have a large supply of firearms stored at that home/business?

No, but I'm sure they do now.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
I couldn't help but wonder if some of the people posting on this thread realize that a fairly good set of directions to Mr. Rick's home/business were posted on here along with information that he is away from that home/business for a prolonged period of time...and that he seems to have a large supply of firearms stored at that home/business?

No, but I'm sure they do now.

Well, if you think any theives need it pointed out for them you are dreaming.