I just had a thread about a new stock I'm finishing. Thanks for all the input and advice.

Next question, is pillar bedding better than good ol glass bedding?


Simdow

IMO no...pillar bedding is not better.....but many will disagree.....A good job of glass bedding is as good as pillars.

I believe a great deal has to do with the caliber. On the real heavy hitters a combination of both is the way to go.

I believe the function of pillars is to eliminate "crush" of the stock material when tightening tha action screws. Glass bedding does not provide any way to eliminate this "crush".

eddieharren is right about the "crush" issue concerning pillar bedding, however, I've not heard of anyone doing a pillar bedding job without a glass bedding job in conjunction with it. I suppose that it could be done but, I always do a pillar job when I'm glassing the action.

what is pillar bedding?

Hello,
Think of two columns with a hole in the middle of each one and this is where the action screws go. These "pillars" act as support under load/stress from the action screws so as to not crush/squeeze,etc. the stock when the screws/fasteners are torqued/tightened. Usually of aluminum but some prefer steel, etc. Both work fine.
Some will use glass pillars by using a straw or similar device and when bedding the action, actually construct a column/pillar of glass/bedding compound instead of alum/steel.
Your old original Mausers were all pillar bedded in a sense due to the method of the floor plate/bottom metal making mechanical contact up front and a steel pillar in the back action screw. Not a new concept and is a good system. The glass bedding is to assure even constant contact with stock surfaces and action/barrel surfaces over the surface of the bedding area. With wood and some synthetics, the stock material can be squeezed or crushed with lots of torque on the action screws and can cause erratic accuracy problem.

quote:

Originally posted by eddieharren:
I believe the function of pillars is to eliminate "crush" of the stock material when tightening tha action screws. Glass bedding does not provide any way to eliminate this "crush".

This is also my understanding of the subject as well. The amount of cruch is how much after full glass bedding?.....something like .0000000000000001 microinches?

if you like pillars, do em both?

jeffe

Simdow, pillars and glass bedding are used to address two different sources of trouble regarding rifle accuracy. In stocks that are easily compressed, i.e. soft wood, cheap plastic, etc. pillars are used to support and maintain the vertical alignment of the action and bottom metal when seated tightly in the stock. Maintaining this alignment is critical to accuracy.

Glass bedding on the other hand is used to support and prevent the lateral movement of the action during recoil. Most weapons can benefit from glass bedding to one degree or another, but not all weapons require pillars.

I have found that generally, rifles who's actions are round-bottomed e.g. Remington, benefit more from pillar-bedding than rifles with flat bottoms e.g. Ruger, Mauser, Winchester. When action screws are tightened on round-bottom actions, the round profile can act as a wedge and force the stock sides apart. It is also somewhat easier for the round actions to pull to one side or the other when tightening the screws. Pillars can help minimize/eliminate this.

OK, here is a little more info.

This is a a-bolt in 300WSM, I've been shooting 150gr and 1658 grn bullets.

I don't feel like this is a "large " caliber but some may think differntly.

eddieharren you talk about the stock being crushed.This stock is a laminated one, does anyonethis=ns it would be too soft?

Malm, it sounds like you think I could benefit from doing both, and I tend to agree from what I have read here and other places.

Next question,
Is there differnt types of bedding material that work differntly? If so what do you guys prefer?

Simdow

Simdow, I think any wood stock has a tendency to "crush" when torque is applied to the action screws. How much "crush" is relative to wood density and the amount of torque that is applied. That is prcisely why I always use pillars made of Al or steel. I use Brownell's Steel Bed for all my bedding work.

My use of pillars are in soft materialed stocks, such as plastic or cheep wood. I have never seen the need of pillars in a laminate, but of course, it would not do any harm either. I also use steel-bed, haven't used "glass" the last 10 years.

For bedding I've used Acra-glas gel for quite a while but recently have switched to Pro-Bed 2000 from Score-High. You can get it either through Midway or directly from Charley Robertson: Score-High Gunsmithing

quote:

simdow: Malm, it sounds like you think I could benefit from doing both...

Interesting. That's not what I got from his post.

quote:

malm: Most weapons can benefit from glass bedding to one degree or another, but not all weapons require pillars.

Jaywalker

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:

quote:

simdow: Malm, it sounds like you think I could benefit from doing both...

Interesting. That's not what I got from his post.

quote:

malm: Most weapons can benefit from glass bedding to one degree or another, but not all weapons require pillars.

Jaywalker

Me too!

I do not know how to use the quote lines but these are the lines that made me think you were saying both could be benificial.

"pillars are used to support and maintain the vertical alignment"

"Glass bedding on the other hand is used to support and prevent the lateral movement"

Malm, I thought this ment that each type of bedding served a different purpose, so by doing both you would improve both 'lateral movement" and "verticle alinement".

Obviously you know what you were saying, this is just how I read it.

Simdow

To be effective, you do need to address both problems, but, at the time I didn't know what you had. Laminated stocks with their vertical pannels are less prone to crush than other wooden stocks and so your stock would more than likely fall into the "probably not necessary" catagory for needing pillars. But, adding pillars wont hurt. That's what I meant. Did that make sense?

malm,
You always make sense

I used to pillar and glass bed every Mauser, now I don't to either to .223s if they sit nice and flat on the inletting.

As John Farner says, round bottom receivers need more help.

Hard kicking calibers need more help.

Yes, makes much sense.

Thanks everybody for all the input. this has to be the best forum on the web for people with our affliction

Simdow