For the longest time I have limited myself to roughly 350-400 yds for hunting big game, and at this point still do. But times are changing. Equipment has changed, technology has changed and common knowledge of precision shooting has exploded.
I have enjoyed watching You-Tube channels of F-class shooters and learning from their expertise. Not long ago a comment by Erik Cortina struck me, he said that 600-700 yards is easy, but 1000 yards is another world.
The question I want to ask is this. How far can a modern precision rig reach out in average (relatively calm) wind conditions without the wind becoming a major factor?
I know, it depends. Feel free to fill in the specific blanks with your answers. I figure if wind can be made a non factor at certain distances, then re-defining what is an "ethical" hunting range shouldnt be too hard. What are your thoughts?

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The question I want to ask is this. How far can a modern precision rig reach out in average (relatively calm) wind conditions without the wind becoming a major factor?

Far more dependent on how well the shooter can shoot. Then the rifle, cartridge combination.

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Originally posted by p dog shooter:

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The question I want to ask is this. How far can a modern precision rig reach out in average (relatively calm) wind conditions without the wind becoming a major factor?

Far more dependent on how well the shooter can shoot. Then the rifle, cartridge combination.

Yes and no. But that wasn't the question.

Equipment and components does come into play. A sub MOA rig with a very high bc bullet will wipe the floor vs lets say me and my model 88 and some plain vanilla hornady interlocks. But I digress.
The discussion I was hoping to have is how far can a competent shooter with proper equipment reach out BEFORE the wind becomes a major factor?

wstrnhunr--I have a large flag on a pole and at my mailbox maybe 40 feet away, two smaller flags. A neighbor caddy corner from me has a large flag maybe 100 or so feet away. It is more the norm than uncommon that all the flags will be doing something different. Very common for my flag to be waving and his limp. What the wind is doing where you are shooting from doesn't seem to be the case even a few feet away.

I guess to me too far on unwounded game is once your time of flight is about a half a second or longer.

Animals are unpredictable, and once you get out there far enough, you have more chance the animal will move unexpectedly far enough to give a nonfatal hit.

Wind movement distance depends on your skill reading the wind, BC, velocity, wind velocity, and target size. The energy of the projectile must be sufficient to inflict fatal damage, and generally

I think shooting longer range is fun and great practice; but should be saved for either escaping game or the target range. Military use is a whole different story.

I don’t think any one cartridge is “best”. A .50 BMG is great for long range, but might not be the most shootable or practical.

If you don’t know the practical points on your round by personal experience, you are shooting past your skill.

While a big magnum makes the effects of the environment smaller, they are also harder to shoot well, and more expensive to shoot enough for good practice. Good skill with reading the wind and knowing what your rifle does more to make the decision of what is best than any mathematical calculation.

1000 yard rifles have made hunters lazy. We used to stalk game. For every video of a 700-1000 yard kill, I am willing to bet there are three times as many gut shot animals that wait for the blessed coup de grace or are never found.

If a bow hunter can get to 35 yards, I would like to know how a rifle can't get to at least 300 yds.

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Originally posted by crbutler:
I guess to me too far on unwounded game is once your time of flight is about a half a second or longer.

Animals are unpredictable, and once you get out there far enough, you have more chance the animal will move unexpectedly far enough to give a nonfatal hit.

Wind movement distance depends on your skill reading the wind, BC, velocity, wind velocity, and target size. The energy of the projectile must be sufficient to inflict fatal damage, and generally

I think shooting longer range is fun and great practice; but should be saved for either escaping game or the target range. Military use is a whole different story.

I don’t think any one cartridge is “best”. A .50 BMG is great for long range, but might not be the most shootable or practical.

If you don’t know the practical points on your round by personal experience, you are shooting past your skill.

While a big magnum makes the effects of the environment smaller, they are also harder to shoot well, and more expensive to shoot enough for good practice. Good skill with reading the wind and knowing what your rifle does more to make the decision of what is best than any mathematical calculation.

You make a lot of good points. Over the years I have been quite comfortable using plain vanilla equipment and calibers out to 300 yds with virtually no regard to the wind at all. To illustrate a point, a lot of F-class shooters shoot a 284 Winchester using bullets with a G1 Ballistic coefficient exceeding .650. No magnum required. Personally, with a similar setup designed for hunting and after putting in necessary practice, I dont think that 500 or even 600 yds would be unreasonable. Maybe the greatest limiting factor under those circumstances would be the performance of the bullet. Again, this is not something I have done nor am ready to do. I just think that having a dialogue about it isn't a bad idea. I am all for giving big game animals all the ethical consideration they deserve. And if that means sticking to my past personally enforced limitations, then so be it.

This is a scary topic because there are those who will say it should NEVER be done while other will say the shot should be taken without regard for the conditions. They're both very wrong!

I have a limit of 10 MPH for wind (Not gusting), 5 is much better and very do-able at the ranges I'm willing to shoot.

FOR ME: generally speaking the ranges need to be around or under 700 yards and I DON"T shoot if I can reasonably get closer, My shooting rest and position needs to be perfect, animals needs to be calm and stationary (broadside) and the wind needs to be cooperating AND I need to have PLENTY of time. No time, No shot, period!

That's just scratching the surface and obviously the rifle/scope setup needs to be top flight and the shooter needs to be popping caps minimum 2x per month and 4 times is even better. I have rifles specifically for this purpose so not to burn the barrels out of the racehorse hunting rifles (but that will happen too over time) although they need a thorough workout every month too.

With that said: I'll shoot a TARGET as far away as I please and under any and all conditions. This is the only way to KNOW what one's comfortable range is.
Yes, 1000 yards is twice as far as 700!!!!!!

I know Tooele isn't far from me so we might pop a cap together someday.

Zeke

Some great comments here. I'm glad to see this isn't all a bragging session about supposedly never missing any animal within 3 zip codes of your "sniper" rifle.

I've set up several 1/2 MOA hunting rifles, with real serious glass, and worked up loads that will shoot tiny groups at silly distances. I set up a programmable rangefinder to my exact load trajectories, carry a Kestrel, etc.

In hopes of extending my ethical hunting range I set up these rifles, learned precision reloading, and built a range with targets out to a bit over 1,000 yards (more recently a 1 mile target too - but just for fun, no thoughts of hunting). For several years I've been practicing on this 1,000 yard range, with wind, without wind, all types of different rests, etc. A few days ago I went 1-for-1 on my 225, 250, 300, 400, 500 and 600 yard 8" steel plates and hit my 1,000 yard (larger) plate on the second shot in a bit of wind.

BUT to be honest with myself I can't ethically promise a FIRST SHOT hit in the vitals from a field position past 350 or 400 yards much more often than I could before I started all this practice. That's painful to admit with the all the time and money I've dumped into learning long range shooting, but if a person is really opposed to wounding game I think it’s the honest conclusion to this question.

The distance is pretty much just math... it's the wind that is so brutal and inconsistent. I can't believe how often a few of us will be shooting (my range is over a large canyon) and read the wind one way, only to find (from the first sucker that shoots) we're 100% off on our wind call.

After 30 some years of guiding I'm okay at following blood, but I HATE losing wounded game and figure I'm a failure as a hunter when I do. Following a wounded animal is made that much harder when they have a huge head start before you can get there. But it seems like some of these fake snipers can't be bothered with checking for blood anyway. If it falls on camera great - if not, go look for another one to bang away at.

I know many people on the internet have never made a bad shot in their life... and anything under 17 miles is a "chip shot", but I've guided thousands of hunters and have yet to meet anyone (including some famous names and dedicated long range shooters) that can consistently make first shot hits in vital areas with field rests in field conditions at these silly distances everyone brags about.

Maybe this is cynical, but my conclusion is that long range hunting is easy... if you just let your ethics go and don't worry about wounding game. Just tell the stories and show the videos of the animals you recover - and hide the rest. That seems to be the most common thread to the fake snipers thinking they're hunters.

Animals don't shoot back. Hunting has nothing in common with sniping. This blurring of hunting with sniping should be viewed as stolen valor... then maybe some of the momentum of this selfish trend would slow down.

Kyler...my experience mirrors yours and I agree with you completely.

Hunters have been trying to improve the range of their weapons as long as there has been hunters.

Thrown rocks, throwing sticks, spears, Attal's, bows, smooth bore to rifled bore. no sights to modern optics.

It is up to each person to know their limits.

Not up for another to limit them because I can't or don't want to do it myself.

Thanks Kyler. I appreciate your honesty and experience.
One caveat for me when it comes to long range hunting is that in spite of the fact that I just plain LOVE to shoot, I am a hunter. I try to keep a minimum of lightweight stuff, throw my rifle on my shoulder and head into the hills. I have zero interest in packing around a 15 lb rifle, range finder, bipod and buttstock bag in the process. So if I cant do it with the KISS method, more often than not, I cant do it.

I have shot over 400 yards now and then, but have walked away from 200 yard shots when I didn't think I knew enough about the wind.
And I've been accused of wasting perfectly good 7mm magnum ammunition on under-100-yard shots...

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And I've been accused of wasting perfectly good 7mm magnum ammunition on under-100-yard shots...

I have been told that practice is a waste of money and ammo.

By a person who misses a lot.

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Originally posted by p dog shooter:

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And I've been accused of wasting perfectly good 7mm magnum ammunition on under-100-yard shots...

I have been told that practice is a waste of money and ammo.

By a person who misses a lot.

If he is right, than I am a firm believer in wasting money and ammo.