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rc has no experience and will never answer, he is a target shooter with no first hand experience with the cartridge in question or the taking of game at long range with any cartridge for that matter _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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[/QUOTE]Says it all is right he doesn't know any more than you do about the subject....[/QUOTE] I suggest you dont start on me jwp475! Ive said my piece and have stayed out of the petty banter between you two and prefer to stay that way thanks. I have not in anyway said anything "personally" directed at you unlike your above post. If you want to go shoot big game with small calibres you go for gold champ! I anit stopping ya! I seen it all before. Runas out! War is inevitable, if idiots are in charge of countries | |||
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Finally had enough time to go look at the flicks. With the fine avability of excellent cartridges available, I really don't understand why anyone who claims to know anything about Game animals and Hunting would use a 243Win and a Bullet designed for Paper at that distance on Antelope. Same-E-Same for using a way too light weight 129gr bullet in another Inadequate cartridge for Elk. Then the Antelope gets Gut Shot and after a few more shots, he finally bounces one into it's head. With that many pitiful shots, it was obviously a pure accident that the Head just happened to be hit. Not impressed by the shooting nor the ethics. And (I can't spell his name) rather well known Gun Rag Hack using such a tiny cartridge on Elk doesn't speak well for his actual understanding of what is going on either. Pitiful and Pathetic! It is almost as if there is some kind of a Contest going on to see who can use the smallest possible Cartridge with the worst possible Bullet and still manage to make a Kill. And yet there are people who still support those fools - amazing! ----- The Gun Writers of Bob Hagel's era actually knew the Game and had Ethics that Hunters could aspire to. I'm not sure why that was lost, but it is in short supply today. "A hunter should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong." - Bob Hagel | |||
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Arguments about cartridge adequacy always amaze me. If the cartridge/load in question has adequate penetration at the distance shot and creates a sufficient wound channel, then for me at least, the cartridge is adequate. No game weight formulas trump actual experience of a bullet/load combination on game. It all boils down to shot placement. If you don't hit the vitals, no amount of bullet weight, diameter, or velocity is going to make up for it -- period. I witnessed this small hog shot with a 180 grain TSX from a 300 win mag at 350 yards by jwp. As you can see, the round unzipped the animal entirely. It ran off and required a finishing shot to the head -- when it was found. There is no replacement, for placement. The vitals were missed, an animal was wounded and ran off. I think all would agree that the 300 win mag is no small hammer and perfectly adequate for all game in the lower 48 -- especially a small hog, right?  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Says it all is right he doesn't know any more than you do about the subject....[/QUOTE] I suggest you dont start on me jwp475! Ive said my piece and have stayed out of the petty banter between you two and prefer to stay that way thanks. I have not in anyway said anything "personally" directed at you unlike your above post. If you want to go shoot big game with small calibres you go for gold champ! I anit stopping ya! I seen it all before. Runas out![/QUOTE] When anyone posts BS they shouldn't be offended when called on it. The content of your post proves beyound doubt that you have zero expereince with said cartridge and load at distance _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Wayne Von Zowell made a 1 shot kill on the Elk with the 129 grain bullet. To say that it was inadequate defines logic. Hot Core you have NEVER EVER TAKEN AN ELK YOU HAVE ZERO EXPEREINCE AND HAVE NO BASIS IN FACT FOR THE POSITION THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN. I shot this deer with my 338 Lapua and he ran farther than the Antelope that JB shot with the 243 and JB's first shot was badly off the mark when some plays the inadequate cartridge card it becomes very clear to those with experience that they know not what they speakk off. Entrance  Exit  A bigger cartridges guarentys nothing _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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The small buck pictured in jwp475's post was poorly shot. This deer was only hit in one lung which will allow a deer to go a long ways. This deer wasn't hit much better than the small hog pictured in Whitworth's post. None of this will make a small bore cartridge a good killer at long range and anybody who claims it is has very little actual experience. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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You're right that nothing makes up for poor placement, including caliber. That is precisely the point of my above post. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Duh, what do you think we have been saying!!!! A poor shot is a poor shot, but to deny that the facts that and claim that a 243 is inadequate despite that results is, well dumb Here are a few photos of a deer taken at 660 yards with a 243 and the 105 A-Max   When properly placed the animals die quickly and a bigger gun doesn't make up for poor shot placement _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Ok so if we dont agree with you in your calibre choice regardless of how much experience we have had, we're wrong, liars and dont know shit. Far out! Youre awsome JW  RUNAS War is inevitable, if idiots are in charge of countries | |||
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Nope that's rc's m o. So tell us how much experience that you have with the 243 and 105 grain bullets at long range. How about a few photos to back up your position? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Sorry you missed my point. Im not disagreeing with you,If you feel comforable useing a 243 with 105s go for it. Personally the Amaxs in any calibre Ive seen to be fantastic longrange killers. I have even considered building a 243AI for my son but using 115 VLDs,sadly my prefered barrel manufacturer dosent at this stage has the button for the twist rate required. For light skinned game out to 500 yrds, I think it would be a perfect combo for an 11 year old. Amongest my shooting buddies,like this post, I have the naye sayers and the yaye sayers. It seems ridulous this post seems to keep going, I accept and respect your position on your chosen calibre OK, but i really do draw the line at being called a lair. not cool. This will be my final post on the matter. RUNAS War is inevitable, if idiots are in charge of countries | |||
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Where did I call you a liar? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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War is inevitable, if idiots are in charge of countries | |||
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Maybe I am a little slow, but I don't see how you feel that I called you a lair. Of course that was/is not my intent. Do you hve expearience with the said cartirdge and load at the distance being discussed and do you feel that it is inadequate to take deer sized game cleanly at the stated distance with proerly placed shots? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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