I have had a lot of good practice shooting doe whitetails through the years.

Because I am a practicing hunter.

And people wonder why some of us question the "ethics" of long range hunting?

Guys like this make me even less inclined to think it reasonable.

Sure there are some people on this board who have the technical ability to hit an antelope's vitals 8 out of 10 times at 800 yards, first shot with a cold bore. Those are folks who can consider this shot while hunting. But recall you still have a 1 second or so of flight time where the animal can move or the wind can gust and throw the shot off.

To me this guy, and folks who advocate this practice, are giving hunters a PR problem.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I have had a lot of good practice shooting doe whitetails through the years.

Because I am a practicing hunter.

.

100 yards?

100 yards?

Mostly less....why do you ask?

RC....you have been here for three years now...what have you killed in the last three years.

I must have missed the threads.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I have had a lot of good practice shooting doe whitetails through the years.

Because I am a practicing hunter.

rc misses the point that the outcome was the same no matter the caliber, to deny that they worked is ridiculous

Sorry ted, I , especially the scummy tattooed ones.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
To me this guy, and folks who advocate this practice, are giving hunters a PR problem.

He and the others don't seem to understand this fact.

Thats OK I can wait....I'm still waiting on some elk pictures from a sharp shooter in Idaho.

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:

quote:

Originally posted by RUNAS:
AH I think yall been "PUNKED"!

thats the funniest shit Ive read!

RUNAS

Howso?


GWB

Its funny because I seen "theorys/Physics" used by "hunters" before, somewhere they miss the fact "ANIMALS WILL TO LIVE" is rather quite high.
Unlike humans they dont "Ive been shot!", humans understand what has happened,animals dont,DANGER... flight mode.
Personally I would be concerned if I invited a person to come on a feral goat cull and they turned up with a 243 or a 6.5 Creedmore, talking those distances, even more concerned if they had turned up with one on a red deer hunt, especially if they mentioned 600 yrds, hmmm I would suggest we significantly close the gap say 300 yrds MAX.

Turn up with a 6.5x47 unless we are shooting varmits keep it in the truck! They just dont seem to kill well, just an observation, in theory they should, 0-400 fine past that..Nah!

I suggest its more poor form/immoral to attempt to quickly kill an animal with "theorys" because there is better choices in calibre out there.

I do alot of hunting and target shooting, almost every second Saturday I spend in the hills culling feral animals for farmers, Goats, pigs fallow and red deer, which equate to hunderds of animals a year noramlly around 40-50 goats a Saturday with one or two deer a month.

Ive seen alot of animals die and also run away from poor calibre choice, surprisingly one of the worst performers were the 260s,one was 140 Berger VLDs and another 120 NBT Both were being shot by the countrys best shooters, up close they were fine 0-300, instant death 4-500 things started to go "HMMM yeah give it another one aye" 500+ "ummm you wanna use the 284 for this one mate!"

ON paper both look like they had the goods but on animals, very uncool.
The saving grace was honestly the accuracy/shooters ability, which I feel the guy from Greybull is using for his defence.
Sadly the animals dont have a say in that choice.

I anit no tree hugging meat is murder type,
but as a ethical hunter and human I owe to to the animals that feed my family to "kill them"
the most humane way I can,without causing them undue suffering.


RUNAS

Runas,
Sounds like you have shot more big game in a day than I have in a lifetime. I was suprised at your critique of the 260. I really would have expected more of that cartridge. I'm not a long range expert by any means but I have a 264 win. mag that I use for Pronghorn and Mule deer. I carried it last year for elk season but never got a shot. I am wondering if you think I should go bigger for elk. I have a 300 H&H, 308, and 06 that I could use. Tell me what you think. As far as the guys using a 243 and creedmore for that long of a shot, they are doing a diservice to the hunting industry, the animals they hunt, and all of us.

Runas,

Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but how were we "Punked" as you put it. RC asked for answers to three different scenario's. Folks gave their opinions. I think that was what he was asking for and that is what he got.

I answered "no" to all three question. The first two,I answered "no" for two reasons. I don't shoot at anything with any caliber at those distances. Second, I probably tend toward overkill. The game I shoot in the terrain I shoot it in, I want it DRT. I want it to drop in its tracks and not take a step. If that can be accomplished, then I consider I've done my job. Others may, but my typcial deer and hog killing starts with 25 cal. and more often than not, between .284 and .35 cal

As far a using does for practice.....
In my case, it once again goes back to efficiency more so than morals or "ethics". I'll use an illustration, Here hogs are vermin. Landowners want them dead, on sight, no exceptions. I trap, snare, arrow, and shoot hogs. They make excellent table fare. We typically have some form of pork from a porker I've killed by various means almost every week, year around. But if I do happen to make a bad hit just before dead dark and can't retrieve the animal after a good effort, I don't beat myself up about it. Even though hogs are vermin, I still don't test out "matchkings" or lightweight frangible bullets out of a small caliber rifle, at long range. Why, because I know what works. I don't need formulas to tell me whether a cartridge will kill something or not. I'd say it's a matter of horse sense, or "stable" thinking.

GWB

I think maybe RUNAS didn't know where I was going with the thread and the questions till I filled everyone in.

BTW, notice that the extreme minority of replies, 1 to be exact, is in defense of what John Burns is promoting.

It seems we have a membership that is much more grounded in common sense here on AR

GWB, Not obtuse at all.
I perhaps was a little premature to see where this post was going thats all,(thankyou rcamuglia too )The seniros seemed to be whimsical to the point of being ridculous, eg PUNKED!,honestly I really was waiting for a "you unetical hunters you, you should all be ashamed of yourselves, condoning the use of such light calibres for hunting especially long range at that, where clearly the listed calibres do not have the required energy/penetration to humanly kill the animal" or words to that effect.
BTW I compleatly agree with every thing you said in your last post 100% except add goats to your hogs bit

MIKE0553, personally Ive never hunted Elk or Wapiti as we call them here, but Red stags yes Talking Reds,It depends on the hunting situation, IF it was close up 0-200 yrds Id feel comfortable with a 308, I use a 708,with a controlled expansion bullet, A little futher out 500 max I would be happy to use my 284WIN shooting a 162 AMax around 3100 fps, or a sub MOA capable 30-06 with a suitable bullet would be ok too.
With the absolute intention of taking a animal past 500+ yrds I would use my ever faithful 338 Lapua or 6.5 Creedmore of course

This has been a great post.

WE just need to post more dead things shot at range guys!!!
I think you would all get sick of the Goat photos, but if you want some .....

RUNAS

quote:

With the absolute intention of taking a animal past 500+ yrds I would use my ever faithful 338 Lapua or 6.5 Creedmore of course

Don't leave out jwp's 6.5 Grendel... His absolute "go to" long range big game cartridge!

quote:

Originally posted by RUNAS:

This has been a great post.

WE just need to post more dead things shot at range guys!!!
I think you would all get sick of the Goat photos, but if you want some .....

RUNAS

Not at all.

Don't want hijack R's post so perhaps you should suggest the forum to start a "bloody" thread, and do so. Leave a trail that an old fart can follow. I'll not post the range at how close mine were shot so as not to upset you long range guys.
I will make you one guarantee. I shot 'em all, and they were dead were probably still quivering when the photo was taken.

For you see, I'm a predator at heart!


GWB

PS: I don't harvest. I kill animals. I skin them, dismember them, roast their flesh, and eat them. I make buck sticks, summer sausage, smoked links, pan sausage, hamburger, chops, roasts, steaks, racks of ribs, and jerky. Its amazing how many folk will accept most all of the above game meat when I offer it. Jerky goes in minutes. As my avatar says, I'm a kill artist, a member of PETA (people eating tasty animals)and an advocate of the slogan, If god did not want us eating animals, why did he make them out of meat. So I doubt if pix of dead goats will upset my tender psyche.

GWB

GWB, Your classic That means "Funny"

I didnt mean hijack this thread,start others.

Also "sick" I was meaning "Tired of seeing" beacause I have alot of them.

Sorry down here in the colonies we have trouble communicating propper

All the best, keep the grill burning

PS my bumper sticker says
"I love animals...they're delicious"

Runas out!