i am thinking this will work...
if it will take the 30-06 length than conveting an 1895 win in 405 win to 45-100 using 45-70 bullets is a barrel swap and extractor adjustment right???

the rims are 65 thou off so cut down the rims or mess with the extractor

the other option is to neck the 45-100 o 405win bullets for more oomph.

should make for a nice safari gun on par with the 458 win mag

It will not work without major manipulation as the rim has a diameter that would require considerable work to accommodate. Get a Winchester 1886 instead, it was meant for the 45-70 to 50-110 rim dimensions.

quote:

Originally posted by jackfish:
It will not work without major manipulation as the rim has a diameter that would require considerable work to accommodate. Get a Winchester 1886 instead, it was meant for the 45-70 to 50-110 rim dimensions.

if the rims are reduced to 405 size would there be a problem?

necked back to 411 this would be a humdinger and you could keep the barrel.

Boomie,

I don't have any 45-100 brass laying around but I think I have some 45-70. Would you like me to see if it will fit into the magazine well of the M1895 Winnie? I don't think so, but if you ask nice I would try (heck I'll even turn the rim down).

that would be cool...

if you could see how big a rim it would take...thanks!

.45-100 and .45-70 rims are identical. They measure 0.6040" and are damn unlikely to fit. Winchester would certainly have made a .45-70 etc if they would fit. But they did not.

Why would you want to do that anyway? Just make it into a .405 like it was intended.

Brent

yes they are identical and if they can be trimmed down to get the bigger case that would be great.

Trimmed down to what? The last thing you want is iffy extraction on a stuck case. There's no percentage in that.

Brent

if need be take the rims to 405 size and if need be an extractor grove.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
if need be take the rims to 405 size and if need be an extractor grove.

Do you think it's got enough brass in the head for this and be safe?

This sounds like a really really dumb idea to me. .40-72 was a round made with this rifle. Why not that?

Brent

Boomie,

You want for me to see if a belted mag case will fit too? You don't need a rimmed case for the M1895! Actually I would recommend against one since it is a single stack box magazine (trust me rimless is WAY better).

so a 411 kdf will work ok in a 1895? maybe as is???

Boomie,

I stick a 416 Taylor in mine and we will see. I think I did this once before and it didn't like the belt, but I could be mistaken.

You could always make a 10.75X68 Mauser. I am about 95% sure that will work.

i like the idea if puting the 9,3x64 brass in kdf dies to make a beltless 411 kdf to work in a 405 win 1895

Boomie,


I stuck a 416 Taylor into the M1895, and stuck is an appropriate word. The case fits very tightly and I had some small difficulty getting it out. I would say the the shoulder area of the magazine box is around 0.485" to 0.490" wide. The belted base fit but the shoulder area did not (well it did with a bit of effort).

Your idea of a Brenneke case and a 411 KDF die won't work as the shoulder would be too wide.

Since I think the shoulder of a 10.75X68 Mauser is around 0.47" and the base is around 0.49" I believe that is the LARGEST cartridge you could fit into the stock M1895 magazine well. Would make a nice rifle capable of 350 gr at ~ 2350 fps and 400gr ~ 2250 fps out of a 24" tube. Definitely an improvement over the 405 Winnie, the 400 Brown-Whelen, or the 411 Hawk.

If you have to wildcat create a .411 diameter version of the 10.75X68. That would provide an even more significant shoulder to head space off of. A real improvement!

You actually going to build one? Wouldn't be too expensive, just a custom reamer and and a reworked 30-06 bolt and extractor (probably). Plus the ~ $1200 for the rifle to begin with.

i have to finish another gun project first...

if you neck up the 9,3x64 to 411 and no other improvements it should be just right filling up the whole magazine without adjusment. slightly altering the magazine is an option too.

open up the 64 dies to 411 and you are off...it will ave 20 thou shouders and that is plenty

the beltless 411 kdf s still a good idea on a bolt action and i am waiting to get some dummies made...could you stick some 64 brass in your 416 taylor dies??? let me know. thanks.

thanks for your help...it has helped a lot!

this gives me an idea...

alter the 375 ruger to have .480" at the shoulder and you could do it on any caliber up to 416! although 411 you could keep the barrel.

the 35 would be great too the 35 newton almosts fits...maybe some mag work.

so a reduced shoulder 375 ruger case to 416,411,375,358,338,300,7mm.270,6.5!

the 1895 line of cats.

Boomie,

Would you like me to machine up a dummy of your .411 X 64 and see how well it feeds? If so draw it up and I will cut it out of aluminum and see if it will work. If not I will modify your design until I can get it to work and report back as to what that required.

that would be incredible...

the 64 would be the same but a o.d. neck of about .435"



the ruger version should be tapered to maybe .475" at the shoulder to give 20 thou shoulders to headspace off of, same shoulder angle and again the .435" od neck

here is the published dimensions of the ruger

everything the same minus the shoulder dia and neck dia and it will probably be brass length of 2.55 after opening it up some.

this would max out the magazine and and get true d.g. velocities...lion AND elephant medicine.

let me know if you need more info. thanks again!

Boomie,

Give me a few days and I will report back what I discover.

Boomie,

Put together a dummy 411X64 Brenneke. She won't fit down inside the actual magazine well. You can load a single round and it would chamber, but the base diameter is TOO BIG to fit down into the magazine proper (the mag swells out at the top). I could not determine this with the larger shoulder diameter of the 416 Taylor as the cartridge was just plain stuck..

The case is essentially a 7mm Rem mag with the belt turned off and run through a 45-70 full length sizing die. The shoulder diameter is .470" and the base is 0.501".

If you want this dummy let me know and I will mail it to you (it has a modified 400gr Woodleigh, 0.411" bullet in it too).

Right now I doubt you could get the 10.75X68 Mauser to work. I will have to machine one up and see. Stay tuned.

hmmmm...thanks for the continued valiant efforts...

it will be interesting to see what IS the max for the 1895.

that would be cool to have the dummy for my collection. thanks!

maybe if you put black marker on the round or some other kind of marker to see where the hold up was...

Boomie,

It looks like ~ 0.480" diameter cartridge is the max in the M1895 magazine. Machined up a straight rod and it fits real snug, but seems to work (until it hits the chamber, hehe).

So looks like the magazine was optimized for the good ol' 30-06 sized cartridge and that is as big as you can go without crazy modifications that in the end probably wouldn't work anyway.

If you want that dummy round give me your addy.

hmmm....so there needs to be mag work to get it to feed.

Boomie,

Definitely would need to do some work to make anything larger in diameter than a 30-06 case to feed from the magazine. The big problem as I conceive it right now is that you cannot widen the mag box as the lever wraps around it, and the lever then fits inside the receiver. A bit of a domino effect if you will.

Your 411X64 wild cat had a case volume of 88.2 gr of water by the way. That is about 13g more capacity than the 405 Win. It should be able to propel a 400gr pill to ~ 2200 fps while keeping pressure limited to 60 ksi or so.

The answer is a long throated .405 where you can seat the bullets out. It will then duplicate the 450-400-3" very easily..and the action can be opened up enough to take the long .405.....Judge Ernest has one and hunted buffalo with us using that one.

Ray,
If memory serves me correctly, though, Judge couldn't utilize his entire magazine seating his bullets like that, could he?

That slanted magazine in the 1895 Winchester is problematic...

DPhillips,

Ray clearly stated:

quote:

and the action can be opened up enough to take the long .405

That the action was opened up to accept the longer 405 Win. How it was opened up is what I WANT TO HEAR about!

I believe Judge had a long throated 405 Win. The first round in the mag would fit. But after that, as the cartridges began going down in the magazine, I don't think they would fit, if I remember correctly.

It's been a while. I do remember JudgeG had some work done to his 405, though and it did limit his magazine capacity if he seated his bullets to just near the leade. I was thinking it turned into a two shot rifle, but it may have been three shots. My memory isn't what it once was. Ray probably remembers this better than I do. I'm sure Ernest does.