THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM LEVER ACTION RIFLE FORUM

Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
.444 or 45/70?
 Login/Join
 
Dave Bush
One of Us
Picture of Dave Bush
posted
I have an itch for a new Marlin lever gun. I have always kind of wanted a .444 Marlin but the 45/70 seems to much more popular. What do you think guys? Which one?

Dave


Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
Krieghoff 500/.416 NE
Krieghoff 500 NE

"Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer"

"If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition).
 
Posts: 3728 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 26 November 2006Reply With Quote
Concho42
One of Us
Picture of Concho42
posted Hide Post
I have a .444 Kicks like a mad mule !


Don't take the chip !
 
Posts: 578 | Location: PA | Registered: 21 March 2007Reply With Quote
Shof
One of Us
posted Hide Post
When I bought my first Marlin lever gun, I was trying to choose between .444, .45/70 or .450 Marlin.

I looked at such things as ballistics and ammo availability. I got talked into buying the .450 Marlin in a Guide Gun.

I had that for a short while, then decided that the .45/70 offered more versatility and unless I wanted to reload, the .45/70 gave me more options. So I sold the .450 and bought myself a Marlin 1895 XLR chambered in .45/70.

The wide availability of factory ammo in everything from mild to wild was the deciding factor over the .444.
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
buckeyeshooter
one of us
Picture of buckeyeshooter
posted Hide Post
I have 3 marlin 1895's in 45/70 and a winchester 94 big bore packer in 444 marlin. My evaluation would be this;
the 45/70 offers a heavier bullet and more energy if you handload or buy 'specialty' ammo. The 444 shoots a bit flatter with the lighter bullets. The 444 is limited by top end bullet weights in the 300 to 350 grain weight, while this is the starting point for the 45/70 bullets. Both are reasonably effective to 200 yards. If you handload-- the 45/70 gives more options. If you do not-- the 444 offers lower cost options at full power for factory loads.
 
Posts: 5727 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
Avatar
one of us
Picture of Avatar
posted Hide Post
The 444 is essentially a lengthened 44 Mag and as such is generally limited to the same bullets used in the pistol round of .429 cal.
The 45/70 is a full .458 bore and has a whole range of rifle bullets designed just for it from the lightweights to outrageously heavyweights of 500+ grains.
Not to say that the 444 is not a good and effective round but the 45/70 is just more of a good thing, but they are still both 200 yard cartridges.
Personally, I went for the 45/70.
Recoil is stiff but is no worse than firing a lightweight 12 gauge gun IMO.
It' not going to put you onto your keester by any means.
 
Posts: 408 | Location: The Valley, South Australia | Registered: 10 January 2003Reply With Quote
El Deguello
One of Us
Picture of El Deguello
posted Hide Post
quote:
but the 45/70 is just more of a good thing,


I agree. Get the 45/70. The 405-grain load at 1350 is pleasant to shoot, but very efferctive. With the heavy loads, it is flat amazing!


"Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
 
Posts: 4386 | Location: New Woodstock, Madison County, Central NY | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
Mikelravy
one of us
posted Hide Post
I think the 45/70 has a performance advantage over the 444 and has more choices in factory ammo than a 450 marlin. My Marlin is a tackdriver and a joy to tote.
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
Crazyhorseconsulting
One of Us
Picture of Crazyhorseconsulting
posted Hide Post
I have had 4 different 45-70's in my life, and even though I have not held on to them, given the choice between the 2 you asked about, I would take the 45-70 any day.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
arkypete
one of us
Picture of arkypete
posted Hide Post
I wish that some one would bring out a 444 Marlin on the Winchester 1886 or 1895 platform. I just don't like Marlins.
I got 2 45-70s one bolt gun and a Winchester 1886 and a Winchester 1895 in 405, and a 444 Marlin would round out the battery.

Jim


"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson

 
Posts: 6173 | Location: Richmond, Virginia | Registered: 17 September 2000Reply With Quote
Shof
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Jim,

Couldn't you simply have an 1886 or 1895 rebarreled?
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
N E 450 No2
one of us
posted Hide Post
The 45/70 is the better cartridge.

There are many more loads avialable.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
congomike
one of us
posted Hide Post
I own one of each and I think the 45-70 is far more versatile. I would not give up my 444 though as it is one of the very early ones with straight lever, high comb stock and 24" barrel.
 
Posts: 1678 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 11 November 2002Reply With Quote
buckeyeshooter
one of us
Picture of buckeyeshooter
posted Hide Post
Jim,
hunt yourself up one of the 94 big bores like I have in 444.
 
Posts: 5727 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
DuggaBoye
One of Us
Picture of DuggaBoye
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I have an itch for a new Marlin lever gun. I have always kind of wanted a .444 Marlin but the 45/70 seems to much more popular. What do you think guys? Which one?

Dave

If you handload and cast bullets , you pick.

What is your intended quarry and range?

In the past I made 500gr. WFNGC for the .444 from a mould by;
http://www.lbtmoulds.com/moulds.shtml

Also have used other peoples bullets.

http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page6.html

http://www.castperformance.com/StoreFront.bok
etc,etc

In the 45-70 Rich Gibson even makes a 720gr. FNGC Cool


I have also loaded his 440, 535 & 700gr. in my .500 S%W.
a good info source:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/


DuggaBoye-O
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
DRSS
DSC
HSC
SCI
 
Posts: 4594 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
Black_Mamba
One of Us
posted Hide Post
The 45-70 when properly loaded is twice the gun of a .444.
 
Posts: 41 | Location: southern Cal. | Registered: 08 May 2009Reply With Quote
jackfish
one of us
Picture of jackfish
posted Hide Post
When loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns, given bullets of equal sectional density and similar configuration and construction, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet at least as fast as the 444 Marlin, and given bullets of equal weight and similar configuration and construction, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet significantly faster than the 444 Marlin. Hence, the 45-70 Gov't can shoot just as "flat" as the 444 Marlin and will deliver more energy to the target and recoil to the shooter while doing so. Each are capable of delivering more than acceptable accuracy.


You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
 
Posts: 1080 | Location: Western Wisconsin | Registered: 21 May 2002Reply With Quote
Idaho Sharpshooter
One of Us
posted Hide Post
check out the twist rate in the 444. That should answer your question. Besides, you can always down load the 45-70 to 444 power levels.

Rich
Buff Killer
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
Mikelravy
one of us
posted Hide Post
Rich
Do the new 444s still come with that rediculous 1:28 rifling?
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
jackfish
one of us
Picture of jackfish
posted Hide Post
Newer Marlin 444 rifles (I believe post-1998) have a 1:20" barrel twist rate. However, even the older 1:38" twist rate can stablize a wide variety of bullets and provides good accuracy.


You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
 
Posts: 1080 | Location: Western Wisconsin | Registered: 21 May 2002Reply With Quote
Mikelravy
one of us
posted Hide Post
I know they can shoot well with the 265 grain Hornady but was always skeptical about accuracy with heavier bullets. Still seems kind of slow to me. I'll stick with the 45/70.
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
mikethebear
one of us
posted Hide Post
The 444 holds 5 in the magazine, and the 45/70 holds 4. If that is a consideration. I have both, and plan to keep both. The newer 444 might shoot 300 grain bullets better. My 444 is just a hog rifle. My 45/70 is the deer rifle.
 
Posts: 930 | Registered: 25 December 2001Reply With Quote
N E 450 No2
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mikethebear:
The 444 holds 5 in the magazine, and the 45/70 holds 4. If that is a consideration. I have both, and plan to keep both. The newer 444 might shoot 300 grain bullets better. My 444 is just a hog rifle. My 45/70 is the deer rifle.



I would think it would be the other way around, the 444 for deer and the 45/70 for pigs.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
Mortician
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Have any of you guys got a peep sight on your Marlins?

BTW in answer to the question, 45/70 all the way.
 
Posts: 61 | Location: Great White North | Registered: 10 May 2009Reply With Quote
Shof
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Yep, got a Brockman peep with the tritium front sight. It's a great piece of equipment and good in low light.
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
Mortician
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Shof:
Yep, got a Brockman peep with the tritium front sight. It's a great piece of equipment and good in low light.


I have a Lyman. I agree with you about the low light.
 
Posts: 61 | Location: Great White North | Registered: 10 May 2009Reply With Quote
Mikelravy
one of us
posted Hide Post
Williams fool proof and fiber optic front. Pretty confident with this arrangement but the foolproof looks a little delicate to me.
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
buckeyeshooter
one of us
Picture of buckeyeshooter
posted Hide Post
I have a foolproof and a old lyman and one scoped. I have a foolproof for the winchester big bore but have not put it on yet.
 
Posts: 5727 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
driveguy
new member
posted Hide Post
Four great articles about the .444 at beartoothbullets.com I shoot his 335 grain cast bullet at about 2240fps with 56 grains of h335.
I fire-lapped the marlin according to Marshal Stantons fine instructions. It is a minute of angle gun now. Painfull to shoot. Wild West Guns ghost ring sight and 3.5 lb. trigger.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: Allentown Pa. USA | Registered: 21 April 2007Reply With Quote
Collins
One of Us
Picture of Collins
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Avatar:
The 444 is essentially a lengthened 44 Mag and as such is generally limited to the same bullets used in the pistol round of .429 cal.
The 45/70 is a full .458 bore and has a whole range of rifle bullets designed just for it from the lightweights to outrageously heavyweights of 500+ grains.
Not to say that the 444 is not a good and effective round but the 45/70 is just more of a good thing, but they are still both 200 yard cartridges.
Personally, I went for the 45/70.
Recoil is stiff but is no worse than firing a lightweight 12 gauge gun IMO.
It' not going to put you onto your keester by any means.

+1
XLR and reloads...
And the LeveRevolution Bullets are available at Midway!!! This make it a VERY easy choice


Collins
Airgunner / 458 SOCOMer/ 45-70er / 458 Lotter

www.actionairgun.com LIVE NOW

 
Posts: 2327 | Location: The Sunny South! St. Augustine, FL | Registered: 29 May 2004Reply With Quote
maddenwh
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Dave, I don't know if you've already decided, but I've had both and I loved/preferred my Marlin 45/70 Cowboy. One could argue about versatility of ballistics and less expensive factory and loading costs of the 45/70.

However, who really cares about all that when we all know how well the 45/70 worked for Custar at little Big Horn Big Grin


"Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand."



470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way
 
Posts: 653 | Location: austin, texas | Registered: 23 July 2007Reply With Quote
sharpsguy
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Custer's problem wasn't the 45-70. It was Custer.
 
Posts: 807 | Location: East Texas | Registered: 03 November 2007Reply With Quote
Gatogordo
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Custer's problem wasn't the 45-70. It was Custer.


Exactly, not for the first or last time, plain stupidity killed the 258 men at LBH. But Custer did accomplish his goal of keeping those Indians from escaping........

On Memorial Day, I salute them and all the other brave men and women, both living and dead, who served our country. patriot patriot patriot


xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
 
Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
jkingrph
One of Us
Picture of jkingrph
posted Hide Post
If I did not have either, I would go for the 45-70. It's much more versatile. That said when I started with no big bores, I now have five 45-70's.


JJK
 
Posts: 299 | Location: E. Texas, NE Louisiana | Registered: 10 September 2006Reply With Quote
Tyler Kemp
One of Us
Picture of Tyler Kemp
posted Hide Post
45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.


Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too!

Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system.

 
Posts: 2598 | Location: Missouri | Registered: 29 March 2006Reply With Quote
wetdog2084
One of Us
posted Hide Post
love my 444 I have taken deer elk bear and I hope to take hogs with it this fall. the remington factory ammo is loaded with a 44 mag bullet that is a little thin skined and tends to come apart but nothing has ever gotten up after being hit with them. re loading will broaden your choices.
 
Posts: 509 | Location: Flathead county Montana | Registered: 28 January 2008Reply With Quote
Dr. Lou
one of us
Picture of Dr. Lou
posted Hide Post
I have owned Marlins in both chamberings. I would take the 45-70 over the 444 any day of the week for the following reasons:

1) More energy
2) Better bullet/ammo selection
3) Nostalgia


****************
NRA Life Benefactor Member
 
Posts: 3316 | Location: USA | Registered: 15 November 2001Reply With Quote
fredj338
one of us
Picture of fredj338
posted Hide Post
I always wanted a Guide rifle & stumbled on a new one for a good price so my choice is obviously 45-70. With a 350gr bullet @ 1800fps, great brush round I can stretch across a meadow if needed.


LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT!
 
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001Reply With Quote
nordrseta
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.
Except permit the use of low cost light weight pistol bullets for practice and plinking...but I chose the 45/70 anyway.
 
Posts: 1733 | Registered: 31 January 2006Reply With Quote
MTM
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by nordrseta:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.
Except permit the use of low cost light weight pistol bullets for practice and plinking...but I chose the 45/70 anyway.[/QUOTE
405 Rems. Deadly accurate and fairly cheap.]
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Southwest B.C. | Registered: 16 November 2005Reply With Quote
POP
one of us
Picture of POP
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.


I agree and I had them all....several times'


My blog: Please Comment and Follow
https://thehandloadinglog.wordpress.com
 
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia