.444 or 45/70?

10 May 2009, 03:16

Dave Bush

.444 or 45/70?

I have an itch for a new Marlin lever gun. I have always kind of wanted a .444 Marlin but the 45/70 seems to much more popular. What do you think guys? Which one?

Dave

Dave
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10 May 2009, 03:40

Concho42

I have a .444 Kicks like a mad mule !

10 May 2009, 03:46

Shof

When I bought my first Marlin lever gun, I was trying to choose between .444, .45/70 or .450 Marlin.

I looked at such things as ballistics and ammo availability. I got talked into buying the .450 Marlin in a Guide Gun.

I had that for a short while, then decided that the .45/70 offered more versatility and unless I wanted to reload, the .45/70 gave me more options. So I sold the .450 and bought myself a Marlin 1895 XLR chambered in .45/70.

The wide availability of factory ammo in everything from mild to wild was the deciding factor over the .444.

10 May 2009, 07:22

buckeyeshooter

I have 3 marlin 1895's in 45/70 and a winchester 94 big bore packer in 444 marlin. My evaluation would be this;
the 45/70 offers a heavier bullet and more energy if you handload or buy 'specialty' ammo. The 444 shoots a bit flatter with the lighter bullets. The 444 is limited by top end bullet weights in the 300 to 350 grain weight, while this is the starting point for the 45/70 bullets. Both are reasonably effective to 200 yards. If you handload-- the 45/70 gives more options. If you do not-- the 444 offers lower cost options at full power for factory loads.

10 May 2009, 10:08

Avatar

The 444 is essentially a lengthened 44 Mag and as such is generally limited to the same bullets used in the pistol round of .429 cal.
The 45/70 is a full .458 bore and has a whole range of rifle bullets designed just for it from the lightweights to outrageously heavyweights of 500+ grains.
Not to say that the 444 is not a good and effective round but the 45/70 is just more of a good thing, but they are still both 200 yard cartridges.
Personally, I went for the 45/70.
Recoil is stiff but is no worse than firing a lightweight 12 gauge gun IMO.
It' not going to put you onto your keester by any means.

11 May 2009, 20:02

El Deguello

quote:
but the 45/70 is just more of a good thing,

I agree. Get the 45/70. The 405-grain load at 1350 is pleasant to shoot, but very efferctive. With the heavy loads, it is flat amazing!

11 May 2009, 23:19

Mikelravy

I think the 45/70 has a performance advantage over the 444 and has more choices in factory ammo than a 450 marlin. My Marlin is a tackdriver and a joy to tote.

12 May 2009, 00:41

Crazyhorseconsulting

I have had 4 different 45-70's in my life, and even though I have not held on to them, given the choice between the 2 you asked about, I would take the 45-70 any day.

12 May 2009, 01:22

arkypete

I wish that some one would bring out a 444 Marlin on the Winchester 1886 or 1895 platform. I just don't like Marlins.
I got 2 45-70s one bolt gun and a Winchester 1886 and a Winchester 1895 in 405, and a 444 Marlin would round out the battery.

Jim

12 May 2009, 02:33

Shof

Jim,

Couldn't you simply have an 1886 or 1895 rebarreled?

12 May 2009, 04:42

N E 450 No2

The 45/70 is the better cartridge.

There are many more loads avialable.

12 May 2009, 05:07

congomike

I own one of each and I think the 45-70 is far more versatile. I would not give up my 444 though as it is one of the very early ones with straight lever, high comb stock and 24" barrel.

12 May 2009, 06:15

buckeyeshooter

Jim,
hunt yourself up one of the 94 big bores like I have in 444.

13 May 2009, 21:00

DuggaBoye

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I have an itch for a new Marlin lever gun. I have always kind of wanted a .444 Marlin but the 45/70 seems to much more popular. What do you think guys? Which one?

Dave

If you handload and cast bullets , you pick.

What is your intended quarry and range?

In the past I made 500gr. WFNGC for the .444 from a mould by;
http://www.lbtmoulds.com/moulds.shtml

Also have used other peoples bullets.

http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page6.html

http://www.castperformance.com/StoreFront.bok
etc,etc

In the 45-70 Rich Gibson even makes a 720gr. FNGC

I have also loaded his 440, 535 & 700gr. in my .500 S%W.
a good info source:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/

14 May 2009, 21:01

Black_Mamba

The 45-70 when properly loaded is twice the gun of a .444.

15 May 2009, 21:04

jackfish

When loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns, given bullets of equal sectional density and similar configuration and construction, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet at least as fast as the 444 Marlin, and given bullets of equal weight and similar configuration and construction, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet significantly faster than the 444 Marlin. Hence, the 45-70 Gov't can shoot just as "flat" as the 444 Marlin and will deliver more energy to the target and recoil to the shooter while doing so. Each are capable of delivering more than acceptable accuracy.

18 May 2009, 20:06

Idaho Sharpshooter

check out the twist rate in the 444. That should answer your question. Besides, you can always down load the 45-70 to 444 power levels.

Rich
Buff Killer

18 May 2009, 20:09

Mikelravy

Rich
Do the new 444s still come with that rediculous 1:28 rifling?

18 May 2009, 21:56

jackfish

Newer Marlin 444 rifles (I believe post-1998) have a 1:20" barrel twist rate. However, even the older 1:38" twist rate can stablize a wide variety of bullets and provides good accuracy.

19 May 2009, 00:44

Mikelravy

I know they can shoot well with the 265 grain Hornady but was always skeptical about accuracy with heavier bullets. Still seems kind of slow to me. I'll stick with the 45/70.

19 May 2009, 04:00

mikethebear

The 444 holds 5 in the magazine, and the 45/70 holds 4. If that is a consideration. I have both, and plan to keep both. The newer 444 might shoot 300 grain bullets better. My 444 is just a hog rifle. My 45/70 is the deer rifle.

19 May 2009, 05:57

N E 450 No2

quote:
Originally posted by mikethebear:
The 444 holds 5 in the magazine, and the 45/70 holds 4. If that is a consideration. I have both, and plan to keep both. The newer 444 might shoot 300 grain bullets better. My 444 is just a hog rifle. My 45/70 is the deer rifle.

I would think it would be the other way around, the 444 for deer and the 45/70 for pigs.

19 May 2009, 06:46

Mortician

Have any of you guys got a peep sight on your Marlins?

BTW in answer to the question, 45/70 all the way.

19 May 2009, 08:38

Shof

Yep, got a Brockman peep with the tritium front sight. It's a great piece of equipment and good in low light.

19 May 2009, 11:03

Mortician

quote:
Originally posted by Shof:
Yep, got a Brockman peep with the tritium front sight. It's a great piece of equipment and good in low light.

I have a Lyman. I agree with you about the low light.

19 May 2009, 17:59

Mikelravy

Williams fool proof and fiber optic front. Pretty confident with this arrangement but the foolproof looks a little delicate to me.

19 May 2009, 21:28

buckeyeshooter

I have a foolproof and a old lyman and one scoped. I have a foolproof for the winchester big bore but have not put it on yet.

22 May 2009, 22:25

driveguy

Four great articles about the .444 at beartoothbullets.com I shoot his 335 grain cast bullet at about 2240fps with 56 grains of h335.
I fire-lapped the marlin according to Marshal Stantons fine instructions. It is a minute of angle gun now. Painfull to shoot. Wild West Guns ghost ring sight and 3.5 lb. trigger.

24 May 2009, 06:23

Collins

quote:
Originally posted by Avatar:
The 444 is essentially a lengthened 44 Mag and as such is generally limited to the same bullets used in the pistol round of .429 cal.
The 45/70 is a full .458 bore and has a whole range of rifle bullets designed just for it from the lightweights to outrageously heavyweights of 500+ grains.
Not to say that the 444 is not a good and effective round but the 45/70 is just more of a good thing, but they are still both 200 yard cartridges.
Personally, I went for the 45/70.
Recoil is stiff but is no worse than firing a lightweight 12 gauge gun IMO.
It' not going to put you onto your keester by any means.

+1
XLR and reloads...
And the LeveRevolution Bullets are available at Midway!!! This make it a VERY easy choice

25 May 2009, 11:28

maddenwh

Dave, I don't know if you've already decided, but I've had both and I loved/preferred my Marlin 45/70 Cowboy. One could argue about versatility of ballistics and less expensive factory and loading costs of the 45/70.

However, who really cares about all that when we all know how well the 45/70 worked for Custar at little Big Horn

25 May 2009, 21:06

sharpsguy

Custer's problem wasn't the 45-70. It was Custer.

25 May 2009, 22:18

Gatogordo

quote:
Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Custer's problem wasn't the 45-70. It was Custer.

Exactly, not for the first or last time, plain stupidity killed the 258 men at LBH. But Custer did accomplish his goal of keeping those Indians from escaping........

On Memorial Day, I salute them and all the other brave men and women, both living and dead, who served our country.

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26 May 2009, 04:43

jkingrph

If I did not have either, I would go for the 45-70. It's much more versatile. That said when I started with no big bores, I now have five 45-70's.

27 May 2009, 01:30

Tyler Kemp

45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.

Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too!

Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system.

27 May 2009, 06:22

wetdog2084

love my 444 I have taken deer elk bear and I hope to take hogs with it this fall. the remington factory ammo is loaded with a 44 mag bullet that is a little thin skined and tends to come apart but nothing has ever gotten up after being hit with them. re loading will broaden your choices.

15 July 2009, 01:41

Dr. Lou

I have owned Marlins in both chamberings. I would take the 45-70 over the 444 any day of the week for the following reasons:

1) More energy
2) Better bullet/ammo selection
3) Nostalgia

15 July 2009, 03:48

fredj338

I always wanted a Guide rifle & stumbled on a new one for a good price so my choice is obviously 45-70. With a 350gr bullet @ 1800fps, great brush round I can stretch across a meadow if needed.

16 July 2009, 23:42

nordrseta

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.

Except permit the use of low cost light weight pistol bullets for practice and plinking...but I chose the 45/70 anyway.

17 July 2009, 03:10

MTM

quote:
Originally posted by nordrseta:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.

Except permit the use of low cost light weight pistol bullets for practice and plinking...but I chose the 45/70 anyway.[/QUOTE
405 Rems. Deadly accurate and fairly cheap.]

17 July 2009, 06:54

POP

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
45-70 can do everything the 444 can, and more.

I agree and I had them all....several times'