quote:

Originally posted by dla:
As usual, your reply is mindless. A bullet that expands out to 0.9" makes much larger temporary and permanent channel than a .459" wide-meplat hardcast.

quote:

Originally posted by jackfish:
Faith has nothing to do with it. I have found the science that supports it. You choose not to look for it so your preconceived notions won't be disturbed. You have not summarized the utility of a wide-meplat hardcast even accurately much less perfectly. Your problem is the 1st church of the impotent, inane dla, not my adherence to the Church of the Northern Pike, which has no scripture regrading hardcast bullets.

Well, at least have an OK day

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Do you have some gelatin tests proving that the wounding mechanism of wide-meplat hardcast is superior to an expanding bullet? If so, I'll listen. If not, then.......

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For what it is worth,

Well, at least have an OK day

quote:

Originally posted by jackfish:

quote:

Do you have some gelatin tests proving that the wounding mechanism of wide-meplat hardcast is superior to an expanding bullet? If so, I'll listen. If not, then.......

There you go again changing what someone actually said. I never said the wounding mechanism of a wide meplat hardcast is superior to an expanding bullet. I demonstrated that they are adequate to produce quick, clean kills and have an advantage where penetration after encountering heavy muscle and bone is required. Then you turn those kinds of assertions into shooting something in the ass, when they actually refer more likely to front quartering shots or anchoring shots through the shoulders. YOU are the one that said the inane remark that wide meplat hardcast bullets are little better than an arrow at creating a wound channel. I'm not going to waste my time showing you everything you need to realize you don't have enough information to make an informed decision. Again. I expended the resources to find the information, you can do the same on your own dime.

Well, at least have an OK day

quote:

Originally posted by Whit Spurzon:
I'll add my anecdotal evidence. While the sample isn't as large as some it is actual in the field observations. Your mileage may vary.

A 425gr Beartooth Pile Driver Jr jogging along at ~1400 fps will penetrate North to South (actually NW to SE) on a 250 pound Idaho Black Bear. The wound channel is straight through and is larger than .459". Its effect on the bear - Devastating! literally flipping the bear. He expired before leaving the scene.

Another member of the party took a bear with the same load. The results were similar.

Most of my hunting has been done with skinny bullets. After witnessing the effectiveness of big slow bullets I became a convert. Two holes, lots of blood, trailing is rarely required and if it is, it's a short easy to follow trail. Finishing shot has not been required and you can "eat right up to the hole."

Never seen an Elk too thick to stop a big slow bullet either. Even at blackpowder speeds a 400+ grain plows right through. I did witness and Elk absorb a 300 win mag as and stand there as if it wasn't even hit. It seemed like an eternity before it collapsed even though it was a good lungs hit.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Sounds like someones been brainwashed. A heavy hardcast LBT style cast bullet will out penetrate a 300 grain Nosler by about twice! Try it sometime, I have. Too many armchair theorists read something somewhere, and it becomes gospel. Don't mean to be rude, but I had my own cast bullet company for several years. I've tested .45-70 bullets in particular for about 30 years; killed about 450 head of big game animals, seen a lot more shot, and have a damn good idea what will do what. Any magazine claiming a 300 grain, .45 caliber jacketed bullet of any kind, will out penetrating a heavier, flat nosed, hardcast is not worth the fire starter it was printed on, and the writer that said such should be fired! Cuz it ain't so. As well, the Speer 400 grain FP is a very soft bullet that is designed for use on Deer sized animals. They shoot great, but I have had several fail to penetrate through many small Deer on quartering shots. I would not use one on a large animal such as Elk. My favorite bullet to date, is a plain base, 475 grain, wide flat nose from a custom mould. At exactly 1,548 fps, it seems to hit harder on impact than anything I have seen so far. The younger shooters of today have a tendency towards lighter faster bullets in any given caliber, and some calibers work well with them. The .45-70 is not one of them, and infact suffers to much for my tastes with ANY bullet under about 400 grains. And yes I know lighter bullets will kill game when all is right; hell, I killed a damn horse with a .22 CB cap! But I want a bullet that will get to the vitals when all is wrong!