SmokinJ

Well maybe so...


But I think I will get a wildcat next time...

I like the 450m and cannot see why they discontinued it

Snake

quote:

Originally posted by temmi:
SmokinJ

Well maybe so...


But I think I will get a wildcat next time...

I like the 450m and cannot see why they discontinued it

Snake

I think it's obvious, the 45-70 in the 1895 is probaby out selling the 450M.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:

quote:

Originally posted by temmi:
SmokinJ

Well maybe so...


But I think I will get a wildcat next time...

I like the 450m and cannot see why they discontinued it

Snake

I think it's obvious, the 45-70 in the 1895 is probaby out selling the 450M.

I'd have to agree....nostalgia and not everyone reloads, and many have a hard time handling the recoil of the tame 45-70 factory ammo and wouldn't want to move up at all.

I really like both of em, but 450M certainly should not be shevled.

Bought one when they first came out and shot it once or twice.
Kept on trying to see what it offered that my 45-70's didnt. Quickly sold it. Have no idea what I even seen in it to buy it the first time.

quote:

I'd have to agree....nostalgia and not everyone reloads, and many have a hard time handling the recoil of the tame 45-70 factory ammo and wouldn't want to move up at all.

BISCUT

I am sure you are correct...

Plus

There was not a variety of ammo manufactures and loads

And

There was no real pickup from the shooting Pros...

But... I'm not bitter... No Wait… I am bitter

But still many of us have our 450s and will shoot them for a long time.

Again, next time I will pick some type of wildcat and not worry about all those things

I still see the 450M as a joint Hornady sales gimmick. Kinda like the 6.5 Creedmoor. Why do we need that one when there is the just as good 260 Rem? How about if Hornady came out with a 30-06 that was a hair shorter, say maybe an 8x57 Mauser necked down to 30 caliber. How many of you would flock to buy that? Gimmicks, all gimmicks.

I should have clarified, my really liking the caliber has nothing to do with practicality....just mere I like it and shoot it.

I'm fine with a company saying "look man, the damn things arent sellin. we have to increase pricies of brass and are not going to make rifles in the near future. But what I do expect, it that there be a supply of parts and a comitment to making brass.

Its only right.

Just my two cents !

Why would anyone need to buy a new " 450M " ... ?

Checkout the " 45/70 Bullet Testing Thread ".
http://forums.accuratereloadin...3/m/2861098911/p/154

The test results using the " 45/70 ", Handloaded with the " New CEB Bullets ", were very impressive

PAPI

quote:

Originally posted by PAPI:
Just my two cents !

Why would anyone need to buy a new " 450M " ... ?

Checkout the " 45/70 Bullet Testing Thread ".
http://forums.accuratereloadin...3/m/2861098911/p/154

The test results using the " 45/70 ", Handloaded with the " New CEB Bullets ", were very impressive

PAPI

I should have clarified, my really liking the caliber has nothing to do with practicality....just mere I like it and shoot it.

I woulda figured that statement would answer why anyone would buy a new 450M

In February I decided to buy a Marlin 1895M Ported 450 to match my other Marlin Guide Guns. For me it was helping to complete a full set of Guide Guns while I was excited about the cartridge itself.

I knew that Marlin had stopped manufacturing them and that Remington wasn't going to start any up either now that they closed down the North Haven plant. I called and confirmed this.

I wanted it just because.... Now that I have it and have fired a bunch of rounds through it I wouldn't ever get rid of it. This rifle is awesome.

When the .450 is pronounced dead I will buy one, put an headspace ring in the front of the belt recess and shoot it with standard belted magnum brass.

quote:

Originally posted by PAPI:
Just my two cents !

Why would anyone need to buy a new " 450M " ... ?

PAPI

Because this caliber is superior in every respect to the obsolete 45/70!

quote:

Originally posted by why 45/70?:

quote:

Originally posted by PAPI:
Just my two cents !

Why would anyone need to buy a new " 450M " ... ?

PAPI

Because this caliber is superior in every respect to the obsolete 45/70!

Please define superior? What can a .450 Marlin do that I cannot do with a .45/70?

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:

Please define superior? What can a .450 Marlin do that I cannot do with a .45/70?

Superior =

- brass is thicker -> last longer, more reloads
- no rim, cycles smoother -> less jamming
- you can load it hotter -> guns are reinforced to take the higher pressure.
- looks better than the ugly 45/70.

Everything a 45/70 can do, a .450Marlin can do as well or better!

quote:

Originally posted by why 45/70?:

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:

Please define superior? What can a .450 Marlin do that I cannot do with a .45/70?

Superior =

- brass is thicker -> last longer, more reloads
- no rim, cycles smoother -> less jamming
- you can load it hotter -> guns are reinforced to take the higher pressure.
- looks better than the ugly 45/70.

Everything a 45/70 can do, a .450Marlin can do as well or better!

"can load it hotter"? Not true.

Feeds better? BULLSHIT.

You can drop by any time and cycle magazine after magazine of my FIRED, EMPTY 45-70 cases through my 1972 1895 as fast as you can cycle the lever and if it jams even once you can take the rifle with you when you go!


As stated previous by MARLIN and Hornady: "The 450Marlin is a 45-70 for people who don't reload"

In short it achieves conservative 45-70 handloaded performance in factory boxed ammunition.

there is nothing magical about it, as for loading it hotter my loading manuals all show a slight performance edge with max loads of the 45/70 over the 45-marlin.

Not any huge ammount but enough to disprove any BS about "superiority" of the 450.

I've had my 45/70 for 30-odd years and there's nothing about the 450Marlin that has given me the slightest interest in getting one to replace the rifle/cartridge I already have, because it does NOTHING NEW!

In regards to my tools/toys I am likely the least emotional person you will ever meet.
if it does the job no amount of fabricated glamour for "something new" is going to make me do anything but chuckle, at the stupidity/gullibility of others...

For NEW rifle buyers who didn't reload but wanted handloaded 45/70 performance the 450marlin made/makes sense.

for anyone who already HAD a 45/70 OR anyone who handloads it doesn't, it's just that simple.

It is a cartridge/rifle for a niche market.
after the bulk of that niche is filled sales drop.



AD

quote:

For NEW rifle buyers who didn't reload but wanted handloaded 45/70 performance the 450marlin made/makes sense.

for anyone who already HAD a 45/70 OR anyone who handloads it doesn't, it's just that simple.

And with " NEW TESTED BULLETS ".. it's even better !
http://forums.accuratereloadin...3/m/2861098911/p/154

PAPI

quote:

Originally posted by PAPI:

quote:

For NEW rifle buyers who didn't reload but wanted handloaded 45/70 performance the 450marlin made/makes sense.

for anyone who already HAD a 45/70 OR anyone who handloads it doesn't, it's just that simple.

And with " NEW TESTED BULLETS ".. it's even better !
http://forums.accuratereloadin...3/m/2861098911/p/154

PAPI

Given we all agree that we gain a lot from reloading the 450M...


Loads that you can't buy from Hornady...

Here is some interesting reloading data for the 450M


Thanks to reflex264

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/i...c,29920.0.html

Snake... not fishing

For me, the .450 marlin is a better option for a bolt rifle than the 45-70. So, I had my remington 673 re barreled to .450 marlin. 22 inch barrel. I have just started to working up loads. So far 2000 fps with 350 gr. tsx is most accurate.Have not found any sighns of excessive pressure using rem 9.5 primers at 2150 fps. With magnum primers, I start to get sticky extraction at 2000fps, with multiple powders.Hornady factory ammo 350 grn. bullet gave sticky extraction, chrony just over 2000fps. If any one is interested in my progress, let me know, I will report back. Just no bitching about the spelling or where I put the commas One more thing, it feeds perfect, it fed bad as a .350 rem mag

Let's see now...I reloaded a 444M case 40 times...that's FOURTY TIMES...while firelapping and developing loads using 4 different powders and 3 different bullet weights...and the case could be reloaded a few more times as far as I can see...but it did stretch and get trimmed ~0.030-0.035" total...so even though there isn't any outward or inward, visual indication of diminished life expectancy, the case is near the end time...that's at the same pressures the 450M is loaded to.

I did polish the sizer so the case was only sized about ~0.0015".

I did the same thing with my 45-70 NEF BC but got over 50 reloads on ONE Norma case even with a few loads into the 50KCUP pressure range.

It DOESN'T MATTER ONE WHIT if the rifle is discontinued...the ammo AND brass is still available and will be for many more years so all you have to do is buy 200-400 450M cases and you will have enough brass to last 10,000 or more reloadings and for normal hunting use that's about 500 years...that amount of shooting would wear out at least 2 leverguns or require a few rebuilds.

WHERE WILL YOU OR THE GUN BE IN 500 YEARS??

Sometime I just can't understand the logic of us hoomans.

It seems REAL SIMPLE TO ME...if you're worried, DON'T BUY ONE...AND if you DON'T have one WHY even think about it in the first place...IF you DO have one...STOCK UP ON COMPONENTS AND PARTS.

OR do as I'm doing...buy a 45-70 barrel, rechamber it to use a belted mag case, screw it on your Marlin and do the minor milling, then you can shoot BOTH 45-70 AND belted mag cases and get at least....times the case life expectancy...that is if a little bit of case bulging doesn't bother you.

Be the second person on the block to have a switch barrel Marlin...me being the FIRST. 356 Win, 444M and 45-70...with 375 JDJ and 50 Alaskan barrels to follow.

And go enjoy your toy.

Luck

The 444 is not going anywhere!

We gotta stop beating this poor old horse...



You first.


I have about 800 450 marlin cases I think my grand kids will shoot my 450.

Pop...

you are most likely correct
"The 444 is not going anywhere!"

for now...