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So who's lying now??

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So who's lying now??

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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So who's lying now??

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So who's lying now??

What makes you think anyone was lying or trying to lie?

We were each stating our own opinions on the subject, and I am suspecting that those opinions were based on experience, not something out of a book or off some website.

I shoot a 44 Mag a lot, but I shoot it with 44 Special loadings.

Not everyone shoots max loads all the time.

Just like the difference in shooting at paper versus shooting at hair.

I rarely ever notice recoil when shooting at a critter.

Shooting at paper is a different matter.

You implacation that people are lying on this subject is pure x2.

The 44 mag, even shooting 44 Special loadings will do a better job on game than the 357 Mag at the ranges these guns will normally be shot at, due to heavier and larger diameter bullets from the 44.

The 30-30 will do a better job than either the 44 or 357 and has the advantage of greater range.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
But shooting .44 Specials in my lever action Marlin is a sheer joy!

Truer words were never spoken.

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Originally posted by SmokinJ:

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
But shooting .44 Specials in my lever action Marlin is a sheer joy!

Truer words were never spoken.

Have your cake and eat it too. That is get the lever action in 454 Casul and shoot the sheer delight light 45 Colt loads in it.

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Originally posted by Steffen:
what kind of velocities could you expect from a .44 special in a 20" barrel?

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
SmokinJ, the figures you posted are accurate, but I have talked to very few hunters that noticed recoil when shooting at game, but noticed it all to hell when shooting from the bench at paper.

Think what ever you want, but the 44 is better than the 357 over the same ranges.

If a person has that much recoil sensitivity then they need to go to a smaller caliber, but only after they have fired both guns, not because published figures give evidence that one recoils a signifigant amount more than another.

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Originally posted by FOOBAR:
All that can be said about these arguments is that each poster tells "THEIR OWN TRUTHS"...whether it is really the truth or not is no different than which tastes better, vanilla or chocolate...or something else...personal bias toward what you have in your rack and nothing more.

I've probably killed more deer with a 22 LR than with any thing larger...a 44 cal punches a bigger hole than a 357 and I don't see HOW a 44 or 45 OR 357's recoil can be considered objectionable or anything more than "just a bit"..in a pistol or in a rifle weighing probably twice as much...

I don't care WHO says what, I know what those cartridges recoil feels like to me...and I'M the one I'm concerned about and the one getting smacked. Besides Mike V is selling what people want to hear just like all the rest of the wordsmiths of the world. I realy enjoy his articles and he DOES have an excellent knowledge base...in some matters but only personal bias in other areas, just like all the rest of us.

Everyone uses the same arguments and everyone of them arguments can be turned around and/or used for or against some other statement. I can never understand why everyone just keeps blowing off the same steam...it never does anything except bring on more of the same, certainly DOESN'T change any made up minds, and the newbees will make up their own minds when they develop them.

Dance with who you brung and enjoy what you have...you never know when you might loose them.

LUCK

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Also the statement by one poster that the 44 mag is better because it punches a larger hole then the 357 basically says that none of us should be hunting with bolt action rifles in any caliber but 45...like the 458 Win Mag and the 460 Weatherby. The 357 Mag lever rifle will kill a deer just a dead as 44 mag. How about we split the difference and all get a 41 mag lever action?

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
And your point is?????

We were 39 responses into this discussion, I don't recall anyone saying anything about anyone lying, till you made your post?

So my question is why did you take it unto yourself to add the "So Who's Lying Now" into the picture???

I have been using my 44 mag lever action since 2006 and don't find it all that bad to use.

Also, this little POS right here is pure .

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Also the statement by one poster that the 44 mag is better because it punches a larger hole then the 357 basically says that none of us should be hunting with bolt action rifles in any caliber but 45...like the 458 Win Mag and the 460 Weatherby. The 357 Mag lever rifle will kill a deer just a dead as 44 mag. How about we split the difference and all get a 41 mag lever action?

It does not say anything of the kind, it says that between the 44 and the 357, the 44 is a better choice becuase it will create a larger wound channel on entry than the 357 will. Which with any reasonable amount of knowledge translates out to a larger exit wound, thereby allowing for mlore blood loss and tissue destruction.

Also, the discussion is about Pistol calibers being shot in rifles, that has nothing what so ever to do with Rifle calibers being shot in rifles.

The discussion is about shots under 100 yards, and in those situations, sticking to the parameters the OP listed, the 44 mag is gioing to do a better job than the 357.

If recoil is that much of a concern, then shots should be kept under 50 yards and go with the 357, although at 50 yards the 44 is still going to do a better job, even if loaded down to 44 Special velocities.

The more blood/fluid and air you let out of an engine the faster it stops, and a .429 entrance wound is going to let out more of those two items than a .357 diameter wound.

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It's you and your 44 bullshit and also that you can't fathom the 357 Magnum lever action being a capable game getter.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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It's you and your 44 bullshit and also that you can't fathom the 357 Magnum lever action being a capable game getter.

No genius, it is your inability to understand that whatever the 357 can do, a 44 can do better.

At no point has anyone, including me, stated that the 357 Would Not work, it is just that some folks, thru actual experience, believe that the 44 will work better.

Also the 44 will work better than the 41.

If you are happy using the 357 I am happy for you, but it is not equal to or better than a 44 unless your primary concern is recoil.

I am not concerned about recoil, I am concerned in making whatever I am shooting at when carrying my 44 dead, and I don't believe that I would fee;l as confident with a 357.

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By the way a 41 mag will do everything a 44 mag will.

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You're the one that can't grasp what's going on. Dead is dead..one caliber over the other doesn't make an animal more dead then another. The 357 Mag in rifle is not just barely capable of doing the chore, it's very capable! That's what you can't see.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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By the way a 41 mag will do everything a 44 mag will.

If that is a statement of fact, why don't more people use the 41 Mag?

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You're the one that can't grasp what's going on. Dead is dead..one caliber over the other doesn't make an animal more dead then another. The 357 Mag in rifle is not just barely capable of doing the chore, it's very capable! That's what you can't see.

What I can't see is why a question concerning the 44 versus the 357, where people were giving honest open opinions from their experience, has just your knickers in such a bunch.

The 357 is capable of doing an adequate job within its limitations, 357 out of a rifle on a deer, under normal hunting conditions with the average shooter, 50 yards max.

44 mag out of a rifle on a deer under the same conditions listed above, 100 yards+.

Throw bear in the mix, which is one of the parameters listed by the OP and the 357 loses ground.

Even at 25 yards, a 357 does not have enough going for it to stop a bear in its tracks unless the bear is brained with one of the shots.

And in a close encounter with a bear few folks are going to have the composure to pull off a brain shot, where as a body shot with a 44 is going to have more effect overall and give the shooter time to sort things out a little better.

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Originally posted by FOOBAR:
No, Smoke...the physics of recoil maybe easy to calculate but the personal reaction to recoil is just that PERSONAL BIAS...and I DIDN'T say ANYTHING AT ALL about comparisons...you seem to read into things what YOU want to...not necessarily what is actually there...by the way, I have a 356 Win AND a 444 Marlin Marlin 336...big brothers to that little 357 and 44 maggie (and I also have two each of those in pistols and that doesn't include the really BIG hand cannons I have now or had in the past)...got one each of those way back when they first came out...amoung my other souvenirs.

Don't try to spread you brand of BS around the garden and think you have a green thumb...most of the folks can see what you're growing by now.

My brain works very well, thank you...well enough to understand what you are.

LUCK

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what can a .44 mag do that a .357 mag won't?

i consider to buy a lever for some small game shooting, and to bring along for backpacking and fishing trips.

small game and funshooting, might be used as defense against small bears.i don't foresee any deer hunting with it, unless society colapses and i get hungry.

how about recoil?
same velocity and 82gr difference in bullet weight, it must be an significant difference in recoil.
i have never shot one of these before, can the recoil be compared with normal cartridges such as .222, 6,5x55, .30-06

thanks.

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how would you rate a .30-30 compared to the .357 and .44, for the uses specified in the first post?

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what kind of velocities could you expect from a .44 special in a 20" barrel?

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how about recoil?
same velocity and 82gr difference in bullet weight, it must be an significant difference in recoil.
i have never shot one of these before, can the recoil be compared with normal cartridges such as .222, 6,5x55, .30-06

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It's mystifying to me what seems to hurt me and what doesn't. For instance, a .30-06 in a carbine is so painful that it's out of the question. However, a .338 Magnum in a Browning BAR is very tolerable. I just never know!

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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It's mystifying to me what seems to hurt me and what doesn't. For instance, a .30-06 in a carbine is so painful that it's out of the question. However, a .338 Magnum in a Browning BAR is very tolerable. I just never know!

I think everyone feels that way at some point in their life.

My 375 H&H does not bother me when shooting it from the bench, on the other hand my 300 Weatherby and the 340 Weatherby I had, both got uncomfortable after a half dozen shots or so.

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Originally posted by someoldguy:

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how about recoil?
same velocity and 82gr difference in bullet weight, it must be an significant difference in recoil.
i have never shot one of these before, can the recoil be compared with normal cartridges such as .222, 6,5x55, .30-06

Here's what I think:
Since the muzzle velocity of the .44 Magnum is lower, there is less "snap" to the recoil than in the 6.5 and the .30-06. (I've never used a .222.) But since .44 Mag has generally heavier bullets, there seems to be a bit more "push." (I hope this makes sense.) With me, the .44 Magnum is in no way punishing at the time I shoot it, and I never flinch, but it does make my shoulder somewhat stiff and sore afterwards. However, I think this is because I have arthritis.

It's mystifying to me what seems to hurt me and what doesn't. For instance, a .30-06 in a carbine is so painful that it's out of the question. However, a .338 Magnum in a Browning BAR is very tolerable. I just never know!

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I wouldn't compare recoils between bolt action rifles and semi automatic gas operated rifle because the gas action does change the felt recoil.

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Originally posted by ShortandFat:
Why fight it ?

Here's the best of both worlds right here, pitty it doesnt get more of a following :::: 357 / 44 Bain and Davis with 125g Hornady HollowPoints :::::: You can use right up to 180g flat points and the 140g FTX with rubber tip :: regards
S&F

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Originally posted by SmokinJ:

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
SmokinJ, the figures you posted are accurate, but I have talked to very few hunters that noticed recoil when shooting at game, but noticed it all to hell when shooting from the bench at paper.

Think what ever you want, but the 44 is better than the 357 over the same ranges.

If a person has that much recoil sensitivity then they need to go to a smaller caliber, but only after they have fired both guns, not because published figures give evidence that one recoils a signifigant amount more than another.

It's a known fact that one doesn't notice the recoil nor the muzzle blast when shooting at game. Mike Venturino himself shyly admitted that the Win 94 Trapper in 45 Colt had a little punch to it for what it was. I own that particular rifle and there is a big difference in recoil between it and the 357's which I owned too....and I am not sensitive to recoil. The figures I stated tell the real truth. I can't understand while some can't admit the 44 mag stings a little out of those light weight carbines.

Also the statement by one poster that the 44 mag is better because it punches a larger hole then the 357 basically says that none of us should be hunting with bolt action rifles in any caliber but 45...like the 458 Win Mag and the 460 Weatherby. The 357 Mag lever rifle will kill a deer just a dead as 44 mag. How about we split the difference and all get a 41 mag lever action?