what can a .44 mag do that a .357 mag won't?

i consider to buy a lever for some small game shooting, and to bring along for backpacking and fishing trips.

small game and funshooting, might be used as defense against small bears.
i don't foresee any deer hunting with it, unless society colapses and i get hungry.

how about recoil?
same velocity and 82gr difference in bullet weight, it must be an significant difference in recoil.
i have never shot one of these before, can the recoil be compared with normal cartridges such as .222, 6,5x55, .30-06

thanks.

quote:

what can a .44 mag do that a .357 mag won't?

It can beat your shoulder to a pulp! At least with a not so heavy rifle, crescent shaped but-plate, and heavy loads. The 357 is more like shooting a 22mag while the 44 is more like shooting a 12 gauge.

Fun! Well lets just say that you might consider buying stock in ammo.

I have owned a few 44 Mag rifles, and I have killed a bunch of deer and a pig with them.

Out to around 100 yards or so they kill as good as any other rifle I have used.

I would also prefer the 44 to the 357 for protection against even small bear.

The real difference is found in the percieved killing power, and in that the .44 excels. Can't beat calber

neither has any recoil that I can percieve. The 44 has bigger bore and heavier bullet weight, thus is more effective on the target.

Steffen
The 44 starts out where the 357 hopes to get.
I bought my Rossi 92 in 45 Colt load it with 300 grain cast bullets. I think of it as 45-70 lite.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
I bought my Rossi 92 in 45 Colt load it with 300 grain cast bullets. I think of it as 45-70 lite.

Jim

I bought the same rifle. With heavy loads pushing 300gr cast lead it does around 1650fps out of a 24" barrel. My dad bought a M92 in 44 mag, which will produce similar velocities using 300gr Buffalo Bore loads.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

neither has any recoil that I can perceive

Buckeye, either your shooting a much heavier rifle equipped with a descent recoil pad or I'm a huge wussy. So which is it.

I had a Marlin in 44 mag. It had noticeable recoil but not excessive. I don't think the recoil was anywhere near a 12 ga. I liked it, wish I hadn't sold it, and will have another soomer or later.

I don’t know what you are talking about a 44 beating you to a pulp I shoot my marlin a lot it was so fun I got 2 more I really like to set up the pop up targets and shoot 200 in a day and that with 240 grain bullets even the 305 grain carbons aren’t bad now the 450 gets old after about 20 rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by txhunter77:

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
I bought my Rossi 92 in 45 Colt load it with 300 grain cast bullets. I think of it as 45-70 lite.

Jim

I bought the same rifle. With heavy loads pushing 300gr cast lead it does around 1650fps out of a 24" barrel. My dad bought a M92 in 44 mag, which will produce similar velocities using 300gr Buffalo Bore loads.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

neither has any recoil that I can perceive

Buckeye, either your shooting a much heavier rifle equipped with a descent recoil pad or I'm a huge wussy. So which is it.

Well, lets just say that I am very insensitive to recoil. In my marlin rifles-- I don't notice any recoil until I get to hot loaded 45/70's or 50 alaskans. I have 30-30, 308me, 35 rem, 44, 444, 45/70 and 50 alaskan versions.

I'd rely on a 44 mag. for bear defense. .357 is for "plinking" and shooting rabbits, and not for bear defense.

44 mag. has comparable muzzle energy to a 30-30 Win. Comparable recoil. 44 mag. lever carbine is a nice choice for a "truck gun." And if you have a handgun in 44 mag, then you're doing the "one ammo" thing like the old west cowboys.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

Well, lets just say that I am very insensitive to recoil. In my marlin rifles-- I don't notice any recoil until I get to hot loaded 45/70's or 50 alaskans. I have 30-30, 308me, 35 rem, 44, 444, 45/70 and 50 alaskan versions.

It's got to be the crescent butt plate that's doing it to me. I've been looking for a rubber recoil pad for my m92 rossi, but it seems to be smaller than the smallest pad anybody makes. So I think what I'm going to do is cut off the stock flat and see if I can make a butt plate out of an air rifle but plate, as it's only about 1/4" wider and 1/2" longer than what the stock will measure after I cut it.

Going to take it out to shoot it tomorrow, so I'll be able to say whether or not it makes that much difference. I'm betting that it's that damned crescent butt plate that's getting me.

As far as the 12ga comment, I'd have to say that this rifle is worse. I've fired 100-150rds of 1-1/8oz loads with out any bruising or soreness, where as the m92 will make me quite sore after 30-50rds from a standing position.

The 44 mag is the one to get for sure.

Ok, fellas.

Learned a few things today.

First is that crescent butt plates on rifles other than wall hangers is just stupid. they look pretty, but really suck to use.

Second is that whom ever designed the crescent butt plate was evil, intent on inflicting pain on as many people as possible. I mean why is the end of the plate rounded and not flatter. You could have a crescent butt plate that is flat from side to side, but no, he had to go and make it nice and round to inflict pain.

Third is that a flat butt plate made of hard plastic stolen off of an air rifle made my rifle go from painful after 30-40rds to flat out pleasurable to shoot for over 65rds. I say 65 because that's all the ammo I happen to take with me today. Only a slight discoloration of the skin on my shoulder, not sore at all.

Now my only problem is that I now have to find a descent looking shotgun style recoil pad that is small enough to fit the rifle. Don't need anything real thick, just something to make it look as if I hadn't carved it out with a hatchet. Or maybe I'll just see if I can find a carbine style stock that will fit. My neighbor just got a Henry Golden Boy in 45 LC today and using my ammo his feels the same as my improved Rossi stock. The Golden Boy uses a carbine style stock.

you guys may be shooting the rifles wrong... the cresent buttplate is designed to fit your arm, where a flat buttplate is supposed to go closer into your shoulder...try moving the cresent out on your arm, and change your feet... it may help, i know it did for me...

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
you guys may be shooting the rifles wrong... the cresent buttplate is designed to fit your arm, where a flat buttplate is supposed to go closer into your shoulder...try moving the cresent out on your arm, and change your feet... it may help, i know it did for me...

This statement is exactly correct. Move that butt down between your shoulder and bicep. I don't know why they did it on big bores but the old squirrel rifles were that way because it worked better for shooting up into a tree especially if you are sitting.

Normally recoil pads and butt plates must be ground down to fit.

Glad you figured out how to make your 44 more enjoyable to shoot I never even thought about a lever action until I was looking for something that was shorter than the width of my AVT rack, when I shot my 44 for the first time I was Hooked and have since picked up another only in 450 Marlin I don’t know what I did before I found out how much fun lever action rifles were.

quote:

What can a .44 mag do that a .357 mag won't?

1) FEED BETTER than the longer narrower 357 case!

2) Have better velocity with a 180 grain bullet than a 357 with that same weight. Except that in theory the 44 will have more wind resistance than the 357.

3) Be a better killer than the smaller bullet if using cast lead SWC or Keith shape bullets as it makes a bigger hole.

4) Make a better short range "pest" shot gun with Speer shot capsules than any 357.

I have also had 38/357 Marlins that were less than 100% reliable. I never had a recoil problem with my 44. If you are that sensative better put a muzzle break on your .22lr. In theory I like the idea of a 38/357 lever action because it would work with my revolver ammo. Other than that no advantage for me.

quote:

Now my only problem is that I now have to find a descent looking shotgun style recoil pad that is small enough to fit the rifle

What you really need is a belt sander and some masking tape, and a little patients. It's pretty easy to make a recoil pad fit really nice.

The 44 mag is also legal to hunt with in a lot more states.

My .44 Mags recoil more; my .357s (16" & 20") have no recoil until we get to the 180 @ 1800+ fps loads. Anyone in my family can shoot the .357's - this is important to us because of some injuries that have simply caused major problems. I need a long gun that she can hit with - which will boost her confidence too.

My .44's will kill small & medium game and targets deader than my .357's. I say this kind of tongue in cheek. The .357/38 is easir to buy ammo for; not a problem if you handload - especially if you cast.

The .44's can use a larger variety of handloaded rounds, from wadcutter Specials to 320 gr Magnums. This can only be good.

The .44 has bigger bullets (jacketed) & boolits (cast) which are better when needed.

Again, people in our family can tell the difference in recoil and we see it on target. A major difference for anyone with that issue. The .357/38 rounds are cheaper to handload too.

I bought the .44 Lever first for the extra power, but the .357/.38 Lever works fine for what we do. FWIW

quote:

what can a .44 mag do that a .357 mag won't?

In Colorado the 44 magnum well allow you to legally hunt big game.

I'll answer by asking the question; what is the 357 good for? For a gun the family can shoot I'd rather have a .22. For game the 44 is the way to go. Noise?????? wear ear protection there is not that much difference in noise for it to be a factor. They are both loud to everyone.

What the .44 did that the .357 could not do was match the caliber of a couple of revolvers I already had.

I picked up an 1894 Cowboy . 24" barrel a few years back and put a Marbles tang sight on it. Good shooter, you know you are starting to get some power, but recoil is not bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen:
what can a .44 mag do that a .357 mag won't?

i consider to buy a lever for some small game shooting, and to bring along for backpacking and fishing trips.

small game and funshooting, might be used as defense against small bears.
i don't foresee any deer hunting with it, unless society colapses and i get hungry.

how about recoil?
thanks.

The 44mag is what the 357mag wants to be when it grows up. Really, in a rifle or handgun, there is little comparison. From an 20" rifle, you can toss 300gr bullets @ 1500fps, pretty potent bear medicine & a better deer killer as well. The 357mag is fine for small deer & things like coyotes, but larger game, go 44mag. Recoil in a rifle is just not there, about like a 6.5 in a light rifle.

I own both, a Rossi M92 .357 and a Marlin 1894 .44. easy answer to your question is - very little, but I think the .44 is a more versatile caliber! In pure caliber specific comparisons the only real advantage the .357 has is it's dirt cheap to reload. The .44 won't break the bank but it uses near twice the lead and up to 10 grains more powder.

I do find a wider range of projectiles readily available for the .357 suited to small game and not as many .357 projectiles as the .44 suited to medium game. I guess there's the answer.

If you hand load your .44 you can load it down so it recoils like a .357, produces similar muzzle energy but it will still be a more effective game round as it comes pre expanded . I use ADI AP70N [ aka Universal ] for my low velocity rounds. Have not shot any small game with my .44. Both will mess up edible small game unless I head shoot

Having said this my .357 Rossi is my go too Rifle. The .357 has proven very effective each time I've hunted with it. It fits me better than the Marlin, really like the crescent butt plate as it tucks in beside the shoulder strap of my day pack comfortably. The Marlin does not. It does not point, balance or swing as nice as the Rossi. Each to their own

regards Jacko

Personally having owned both I'd recommend the 44.


You can download the 44mag to 357mag levels, loading up the other way? not a good idea...

But one thing I'd recommend if you load down Load ALL rounds in 44mag cases, but use distinctly different bullets.

I load only CAST bullets as "light loads", if they are magnum level loads they are jacketed.

The 44mag for all it's reputation is a ballistic twin of
the 30-30 from the Muzzle to around 150yards.

AD

Im a big time 35 cal guy. I have two rifles (358 win and 35 Whelen) and a 357/38 pistol and they are all fantastic.

But with that said, between the 357 and a 44 mag in a lever gun.. Ill take the 44 all day long.. Bigger heavier bullets cary better and retain more energy. I couldnt see recoil becoming an issue with a 44 mag in a rifle..

Hell, this thread has got me thinking of getting one..

.357 Mag VS .44 Mag

I dont have much experince with a 357 mag rifle but the 44 mag on the other hand I will not be with out it on any hunting trip.. I dont have a lever gun I do have a H&R single shot with a 22" barrle and a Leupold FX-II 2.5X20mm and a German #1 and LOVE that gun 5 deer have meet there maker with it closest shot 25 yards longest 160 yards..

With cast bullets and some trail boss I have shot squrierls, rabbits and some muskrats the recoil is nothing at all even with hevy loaded 320gr hard cast loads.. A

t 100 yards and a Horaday 240gr XTP HP and max charge of LiL'Gun will get me 1.25"-1.5" and will go thru 4/ 1 gallon milk jugs with water in them and the bullet can be found in the fith one.. that is over 24" of water...

The 44 mag rifle is so fun and easy Kids can shoot it and any one can shoot it

I shoot a 44Mag Win. Trapper using anything from 240grn Spl 8.0grn Unique to 300grn H110.19-19.5 Castcore/XTP/Nosler JHP,it don't kick a bit. I have shot alot of hogs, from 35-85 yds open sights.Paid $247 for it in 1987. Has the prettiest burl stock on it it you've ever seen. You can feel the burl on the stock. Wil try to post a pict asap. Macthes my Ruger SBH 44 Mag pistol. Cousin bought his 45LC same year for the same price. Both bought at Carter's Country in Houston. Don't buy from them now. If you got a .357 mag pistol a .357 mag lever is a sweet mtch to it. But it ain't no 44 Mag.

I have both a .44 mag (Marlin 1894) and a .357 (Navy Arms replica of a model 92 Winchester). The .44's recoil doesn't get into what I'd consider "noticeable" territory, and the .357 is even less. Muzzle blast is very light too, which is probably why the percieved recoil is so low for me.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything up to deer-sized game with either inside of 125 yards or so. If bears are on the menu, the .44 is definitely a much better option.

357 Leverguns are fun,fun, fun and ammo is cheaper for more fun shooting,,all you will ever need for small varmints like fox,coyote,etc.

A 44 well shoot a 300 plus gr bullet at a resonable speed the 357 well not even come close to that.

I do have a marlin in 357 158gr at 1850fps have killed some deer with it.but the 44 is a lot more. I would like to get a 44 marlin and load 300 grs it it.

My 10 year old , 75 pound grandson shoots my .357 and .44 mag rifles with nary a complaint; shoots them pretty well too.
My wife killed her first buck with my .357 with one shot; she can shoot the .44 also.

Recoil should not be an issue with either unless the shooter has injuries to consider and then he/she can just shoot other-handed and eyed.

Buy one of each and shoot them and then make up yoiur mind; I did that and kept them both.

Mr Shelton,

are you perchance, the gentleman I spoke with at Reno who builds those fine flintlock rifles?

regards,

Rich

well from my first post i just had the 44 mag and since then I did get another rifle in 357 mag and have to say It would be a toss up for me, I have not shot any med size game yet with the 357 but do know at 75 yards it shoot a 158gr and 140gr bullet thru 5 water jugs and keep going so penitration wont be a issue..

as far as accuracy well it is very good at 50 yards and good at 100 yards i do have some pics posted up on the singleshot rifle section. agin not a lever gun but a single shot just need to get out and see how well it would perform on deer but dont think there would be any issues

how would you rate a .30-30 compared to the .357 and .44, for the uses specified in the first post?

If I am not mistaken, I believe the 44 mag starts out at the muzzle, energy wise with what the 30-30 is doing at 100 yards, or something like that.

With the new leveRevolution ammo the 30-30 is even more impressive.

Probably will be a tad more felt recoil with the 30-30 than the 44 mag in similar weight rifles.

Unless you are looking at 100 to 100 yard plus shots on a regular basis, I think the 44 would be the better choice.

Problem here are the posters gonads. Some are giant, some are small, and a lot are braggers. There's one way to settle the debate on 44 mag recoil. I just punched it into recoil calculator and here are the results:

44 mag using 300 grain bullet at 1637 fps with a powder weight of 21.5 grains shot from a 6.5 pound rifle gives 14.8 foot pounds recoil at 12.1 recoil velocity.

30-30 using 150 grain bullet at 2152 fps with a powder weight of 30.5 shot from same 6.5 pound rifle gives 9.6 foot pounds recoil at 9.7 recoil velocity.

357 mag using a 180 grain bullet at 1381 fps with a powder weight of 13.8 shot from the same 6.5 rifle gives 3.8 foot pounds recoil and 6.1 recoil velocity.

So who's lying now??