Has anyone here tried "reloading" this round to improve accuracy.
That is pulling the lousy bullets and loading a high quality bullet to improve accuracy?

This is something I"d like to do if I ever have too much time on my hands!
You can search the web for info, I have found sites where people have used a .25 ACP shell holder to hold the case, raise it up in your press(without a die in place), grip the bullet with a pair of pliers or mole grip, and lower the cartridge to pull the bullet out.
I"d dump the powder and try something like H110, and then seat a new bullet using a .22 Hornet seating die. I"ve never tried all this, but apparently it works.
The downside is that if you increase the pressure, you risk rupturing the case and possibly getting an eyeful of brass.
I read somewhere that silluette shooters were loading heavy bullets until Federal marketed a cartridge with a 50 grain bullet.
Like I said, I"d love to try it, but my .22 magnum is"nt getting much use in the winter months so I have"nt thought about it for a while, but I bet you could squeeze another few yards of accurate range out of it by loading more consistant, slightly hotter ammo.
good shooting

Hello Brass,
I have tried the 50 grain Federal load in my rifle and it is not so accurate. I was just curious if someone has already been down this road....and what wisdom they might share......

Yes, I've accomplished 3/8" 5 shot groups at 50 yards fairly regularily with a restocked Marlin Heavy SS Barreled rifle with a 1 lb trigger. I've posted these photos on another websight seeking answers to some questions that I have myself.(But, I have found that this is a very narrowly practiced endeavor, with little or no authorative knowledge or input to be found) But, I'm not interested in 50 yards....and so I take the same reloaded ammo and move on from the 50 yard range to the 100 yard range, and this is where my frustration starts. I'm getting erratic performance at 100 yards. I'll get 3 shots in a cluster, and the other 2 shots will completely spread out to 1 1/2" I'm thinking that the slow 1-16 twist doesn't help! (typical in the 22 mag rifle)I haven't completely given up yet....but I'm not that far from that point, and am thinking of dumping my rifle. I don't hunt, so a rifle must perform on paper for me!

I simply reload the Winchester Supreme case and powder that already provides the best accuracy out of my rifle, discarding the original bullet for a 40 grain Sierra Hornet. You have to be willing to spend time and about $17 a box of 50 pops in this effort.

Most guys don't want to spend that kind of money on a 22 mag. They always seem to express a desire for CHEAP as the first main concern when firing a rimfire. To me, I'd be willing to spend the same price for an accurate 22 mag round, as I would pay for an accurate 300 Win Magnum round. It doesn't matter to me if it's a little cartridge or a big cartridge, it's sub 1" MOA accuracy that I seek.

Forget about finding empty hulls for reloading. The hulls greatly differ and will effect accuracy.

6flute,
Thanks that was a great 3rd post.
I have been theorizing that the large amount of unburned powder and powder residue contributes to the erratic accuracy. I may try cleaning between shots just for grins to see if it makes any difference.
I have some of the 40 and 45 grain semi-pointed bullets made by Sierra that I might try. I also want to slug the bore and find out how large it is. Checking the twist would be a good idea too. My rifle is an old Mossberg. I would be willing to pay more for a good .22 WMR if I could make one shoot a little better.

Ireload2,
In the fair amount of time that I have checked quite a bit of different test loads with a chronograph, and on paper at the firing range, I really could not find fault (that you suspect)that perhaps the problem was caused by a dirty bore.

I always started with a clean bore, but started by firing off 2 wild shots to clear the bore of cleaning solvents beforehand. I used a wind flag, an 18X power scope, and a hart rifle rest with a rear bag. I will clean the bore while at the range. Sometimes I will try a 6 shot group before cleaning, and other times I might go 20 rounds. I could never see a pattern one way or the other with this little shooting in between cleaning.
My chronograph test normally had no more then a 28fps spread when using the original Win Supreme powder. I tested 2400 powder, as well as the powder and hulls from Remington Premiers and other 22 mag ammo. The best results were with the Win powder that comes right out of the case. Like I said, the best accuracy I obtained was to start with the factory round that already provides the tightest groups. The regular length pointed 40 or 45 grain bullets (like the Hornady moly I tried)hit the target tumbling! They are evidently too long and imbalanced for such a slow rifle twist. By far, the most accurate bullets are the .224 Sierra HORNET 40 or 45 grain, with the Sierra HORNET 40's having the edge. The Hornady 35 grain V Max were acceptable, but still not as good. The cases are already tight, and do not require crimping when seating the bullet. You simply need to rheem the case mouth open because it comes so heavily crimped on their bullets, and use the 22 hornet die to feed in the Sierra bullet. Seat it as far out as you can. I also use a cocentricity gage, and have found the more cocentric loaded cartridges will make a difference too. Sometimes a less cocentric cartridge will go into the 5 shot 1/4"- 3/8" 50 yard group anyway, but when I do have a flyer at 50 yards, it almost always been the incocentric round.

The remaining thing I need to try before giving up on this effort, is to use a Lee Factory Crimp on the loaded cases to apply an "even pull" on the bullet. I doubt this will make much difference though, as there is already considerable tightness holding the bullet in the case. The other thing is to try to measure and sort out hull variances. I still think ultimately the problem is that the 1-16 twist has trouble stabalizing these slow moving bullets out at 100 yards. I honestly can't figure why the manufacturers don't provide a 1-12 or 1-14 twist with the 22 mag instead of that sloooow 1-16. It's not like a 1-14 twist would spin the bullet apart for crying out loud! The other thing is that perhaps that this is as good as a Marlin barrel will shoot!!

You can see the kind of groups I get at both 50 and 100 yards with the same loads. The bottom photo is the 100 yard group. Frustrating, isn't it.

6flute,
That"s interesting reading, and great that you"ve taken the time to try it all.
Would you say that you are getting any more accurate range, that would transfer to small game hunting, from loading a better 40 gr bullet and increasing the COL? Do you think that overall it"s worth doing?
I"m asking as I was thinking of getting a shell holder and die to try it when the daylight starts getting longer.
good shooting

6flute,
Thanks for the photos and the post.
That was great to read. Even though you are disappointed with the 100 yard groups they are much better than what I get with the Winchester Supreme ammo out of the box. I will normally get two or 3 inside about 1.5 to 2 inches at 100 and the other two will be out to about 3 to 4 inches.
Sounds like it would be inmportant to know my rate of twist and bore dims.
I have yet to try a ballistic calculator but I wonder if the bullets are passing through transonic velocities between 50 and 100 yards.
this might explain the trumpet shaped grouping tendencies.
I just checked my bullet inventory
here is what I found that might work
40 grn Sierra HP
40 grn Sierra Hornet (both 223 and 224)
45 grn Sierra Semi pointed and Spitzers
50 grn Sierra Semi pointed and Spitzers
55 grn Sierra spitzers
45 Nosler Solid Base Hornet

I know many of these are too long to work but I have some hope the Nosler and 40 grain Sierras might work.

While my rifle is about 30 to 40 years old it has been fired very little. The barreled action is held in place by only a single screw and the action is still stiff. I suspect the barreled action is moving a little when I open and close it. I also suspect the dovetail sight cuts may have produced tight spots in the bore. I will have to shoot it more to see if that is the case. I had a Marlin once that had the front dove tail close to the muzzle. The more I shot it the better the constriction at the muzzle dove tail could be seen.
If my tests are a flop acquiring a quality barrel for a stiff action with a good trigger might be the next step. I have a Contender set up that is capable of using a .22WMR barrel. I do not know what the factory .22WMR twist would be but a custom barrel with the right twist might work better.
Another choice would be to get a good center fire blank and convert an existing centerfire bolt gun to rimfire. I will have to give this some thought. I know Lee-Enfields were originally built in .22 LR for training rifles.
PS
My 10" Contender Hornet Barrel set up in the handgun configuration has a 12" twist. It shoots the common 55 grain Winchester FMJ for the 5.56/.223 round into about 1.5 inches at
100 with just a 1.5X scope and my shaky hands
I doubt that the Hornet loads form the 10" barrel are any faster thatn the .22 WMR loads.
EDG

ireload2,

I suppose being that you already have the rifle and some ammo, it won't cost you a whole lot of expense to pursue the results you're loooking for. I seriously doubt though that a Mossberg rifle delivering the groups you described is going to transform a whole bunch. And yes, the Marlin is the same crappy deal as your Mossberg with a single bolt holding the action in place on the receiver. It's held by another bolt at the barrel. This is why I especially thought it important to glass bed the action in a solid l;aminated stock.

My whole obsession with a tack driving 22 mag started because I once owned a Remington 5mm rimfire that commonly fired 3/4" 100 yard groups. It was a plane Jane $69 rifle I bought in 1976 that delivered that kind of accuracy right out of the box. I wanted another rimfire rifle that would duplicate those groups.

Being I don't hunt, good paper shooting is what I thus confine myself to. And most of the time I demand sub 1" accuracy out of a bolt action rifle or I get disatisfied and lose interest in the rifle real quick. This is why the standard 22 rifles bore me to tears. To me, there is little challenge to shooting at 50 yards unless your hunting live game.

And yes, hordes of folks have told me to buy a 17HMR, like I was unaware of anything about it. I personally do not like a 17 Cal anything. I know the 17HMR is reported to deliver sub 1" accuracy at 100 yards. I have spoke to Steve Hornady on the phone and tried to talk him into doing a 20 cal rimfire. He says there is no magic in the FPS numbers, and will not do it. What a surprise that a 17 cal bullet out of a 22 mag case will out run a bigger and heavier 20 cal bullet out of a 22 mag case. It's this kind of "faster is better" mentality that dictates marketing. I'll take a 20 cal rimfire that shoots 3/4" groups and flatter at 100 yards, then the 22 mag ever could. It would also hit much harder then the little 17. But, I'm only in it for the merits and practicality, not the mighty $$$ I doubt we will ever see a 20HMR. (or whatever it would be called)

I purposely bought the Marlin heavy Barreled 982 VS "varmint" SS 22 mag rifle because it was touted by Marlin as having great accuracy. However they never defined what "great accuracy" actually was. So, I bought the rifle thinking that with a changed stock, trigger, and bedding, I could probably get "great accuracy" if the rifle didn't already have it.

Well, I purchased TWO OF THE SAME RIFLES AT aprox $250 each to see which one would shoot better (both were close), and I sold one rifle. With the other rifle that I chose to keep....I then paid $60 for a basx trigger for it, $90 for a replacement Marlin laminated stock, $20 for the necessary trigger guard, and $130 to have my smith bed it. I was frustrated that I couldn't get the 8 differen't kinds of commercial ammo that I ordered from Midway (at more expense) to group tightly at 50 yards.
So, it got to be a situation where I wasn't going to give up and accept the loss so fast after all that effort already invested. SO THE ONLY AVAILABLE ALTERNATIVE I THEN HAD WAS TO START RELOADING THE AMMO! This greatly improved the 50 yard results, but still proved a disapointment to me at 100 yards.

I agree with you that converting a centerfire to a 22 mag would arrive at the kind of accuracy in mind, but at a lot of work. I do not do machinest work, and would thus have to pay somebody to do it. There is a point when one must consider if it is just easier and cost efficient to just choose to buy a $900 Cooper from the start. I though surely the odds would be that with all the extra trouble I went through, I'd get this supposedly already factory accurate Marlin to shoot the way I wanted.Right?....wrong. Had, I known it wouldn't shoot as I expected, I would have bought a Walnut stocked Ruger for about $550 and a $325 Lilja barrel, and called it a day. I think a custom Lilja barrel would have made all the difference. There's no guarantee that a Cooper or any other expensive 22 mag rifle (few that there are....as every assembly line has been converted to the 17HMR rifle in the rimfire "magnums") would shoot accurately.
Too late now. I'm about burned out now with my "dream 22 mag rifle", and am not going to start another 22 mag project. Especially not at $1,000. You got to admit, that for a guy that justs wants to get some rimfire satisfaction at a 100 yard target, this is already a heck of a lot of time and trouble. I'd rather start anew with my next accurized AR15, or my upcoming 20 Tactical. Though not rimfires, at least they should do what I want then to do. All I can say is that I still have regrets and resent Remington having discontinued that 5mm ammo on me. Little did I know somebody would be producing centerfire ammo for it a few years later too..... after I already dumped the rifle. I'm having trouble readjusting to life ever since.

Brass Thief,

You have to really have a special motive to go through the trouble of reloading rimfire ammo. For some in the past, it has been to obtain a heavier 50 grain load for silouette style shooting that can knock those metal targets over. Being, it is very hard to locate a heavy bulleted 22 mag cartridge being offered, reloading one will thus this still make sense. For other guys like me, accuracy means a lot. In particular, I have this neurosis about having lost my Remington 5mm years ago, and feeling this great loss in my life to fill its loss. -hehe.

However, if you are into hunting really small targets like barn yard wrens, rats, or mice, and want to knock em dead with a heavy and faster paced 22 mag 40 grain Sierra bullet (compared to the ordinary 22lr), then this might be some fun and worth your time. I have also not checked this bullets trajectory at 75-80-85 yards. Maybe it's very accurate and similar to the 50 yard results I have been getting. (??)


FORGET ABOUT THE 25CAL SHELL HOLDER. You are liable to ignight the case by a poor and uneven grip around the hull. I bought it for this project, and pitched it to the side. USE A 45-70 case holder. You will need to open up the shallow groove in the base of the holder just a tad. (easy to do with a dremel grinding tool) Then you simply slip a metal washer over the cartridge and slip the cartridge with the washer over it into the 45-70 shell holder. This way the hull is fully surrounded by a snug metal washer to hold it firmly in place.....and will not otherwise possibly ignight due to uneven pressure during the pulling process. Do not use the holder to load the cartridge. The case will not stand straight over the primer outlet opening in the bottom of the shell holder. I simply place a flat piece of metal into the slot of the 45-70 case holder and let the charged 22 mag case stand freely on it as I feed it up into the 22 hornet seater die.

6flute,
Thanks for the backgound on the Marlin and your reloading efforts and accuracy efforts. I do not really expect much from the Mossberg but I only have $40 in it. It came cheap with the magazine missing. I checked it this evening and found it had the same 16 inch twist so I do not expect much out of the longer bullets. I had another Mossberg 40 years ago and I don't remember it shooting any better though it killed small game much better than a 22LR. I made my first 100 yd shot on a crow with that rifle. By the time the 5MM came out I was trying to get through college. I never thought much of the 5MM's extractor set up and never got serious about one because of my previous experience with the first Mossberg. I did buy the .22 LR version of the same rifle, the 541 I think. I have been trying to find the single shot 540 version for a .22WMR experiment for a long time. Between the local Academy and Sportman's Warehouse there are a few more loads that I have not tried but I expect over the holidays that I will try a few handloads and some of the $13 a box Remingtons.
I ran a lathe about 5 years and have access to one now so I am seriously considering some sort of project. I suspect the only .22 WMR that might have been good out of the box is the Anchutz 54 Sporter but they are more expensive than what I want to play with and might need a new barrel also.
Your 45/70 shell holder trick is pretty neat.
Sportman's Warehouse did not have the RCBS #29 shell holder and I am glad they didn't.
EDG

ireload2,

You and I are about the same age, as when I bought my Rem 5mm I had just graduated High School not too long before.
I've enclosed one more photo here of a 100 yard group with the 40 grain Sierra's. The shot on the target that I taped over with an X was a cartridge that was the saved for the last shot because it was the least concentric. Sure enough it fired the wildest hole of the group.

I looked over my targets again to find that out of about 7 shots, usually 2 of the shots will open the group to 1 1/4" to 1 3/8" You can see with this group that 5 were inside 3/4". I have another target with the first 3 shots of Hornady 35 grain V max loadings being in a clover cluster, and the last inconcentric cartridge opening the group to 1 3/8"
(More proof that concentricity does matter with this fussy little round)

Anyway, luck to you with your own experiments. Let me know if you make any other determinations during the process. I'd especially like to hear from you if you do your own machining project.

I have an old CZ ZKM452 in .22mag which was very patchy for accuracy. It shot RWS ammo very well - but this was very expensive. It is crap with all other common ammo. I couldn't get RWS anymore and was about to trade the .22mag away when my local dealer gave me some Remington Supreme 32gr v-max.

These are excellent and very accurate in my rifle .6-.7 consistently at 100m. Nobody believes that, but it is true. The BC however is poor, and they don't do well in the wind.

I rarely use the .22wmr since a got a .222rem a few months back. Might trade it anyway for an Anshutz carbine in .22lr.

Now you don't think I neglected to try the Remington Premier ammo before I went through the desperate measures of loading my own ammo?

The green tipped Remington Premier ammo of two years ago that came in the little paper box with the little yellow cloud that said "NEW" on it, was the most accurate ammo in my rifle. It provided 5 shot 1/2"-5/8" clusters at 50 yards and at least one 7/8" 5 shot 100 yard group before I ran out of it.

When I went back to the range on my next visit to the firing range a month later, this Premier ammo was now being offered with gold tips and came in a plastic box. This is the way it is currently sold. But for me, this gold tipped stuff shoots like crap in my rifle, delivering 1 3/8" to 1 1/2" with no shots clustering. I was so annoyed with the radical performance change of it in my rifle, that I called Remington to ask them "What's the Dang Deal....why'd you change the ammo on me?!!" I have heard people on various forums tell me that this gold tipped stuff is still the most accurate ammo in their rifles. No such luck for me.

RWS?....heck no!....I have enough trouble with the availability of finding the $10 ammo without getting involved with special ordering these exotics. Time for a new rifle if I have to resort to that.

Thanks for the input.

EDIT: Holy Moley!....I just went to check out the RWS ammo at Midway and a couple of other places. It's $25.00 a box plus shipping. Every 5 shot group would cost me $2.50 I think I'll pass on that.

6Flute, I think the last RWS I got was £14/50 here, which is about $28 at current exchange rates. I think they stopped importing it into Ireland as it was so expensive and it wasn't selling.

I have had the Remington Premier in two or three different style packs, cardboard and plastic boxes, however, the heads have all be green tipped. Accuracy has been very consistent for me.

Just to post the latest on my tinkering.
Federal 50 grain 22WMR loads measure .2395 to .240. This is the case neck dia measured over the bullet at the mouth.
Winchester 40 grain FMJ and the Premium ammo measures .240 to .241.
The chamber of my Mossberg measures .246

6Flute,
I left you a PM about a 5MM.

Ireload,
Hopefully you got my reply back to you.

As far as your Mossbergs chamber goes, if I understand what you're describing, it sounds like your chamber is oversized. That can't be good for accuracy, can it.

Anyway. I discovered a gunsmith within a 50 mile drive who specializes in Marlins, among other gunsmithing endeavors. THIS GUY IS A REAL NUT CASE! Have you ever heard of a gunsmith who even attempts to work on pinned rifle barrels? Well this guy goes way beyond that. He rechambers the barrel with a 22 Mag reemer, cuts off and removes the pin end of the barrel and replaces it with threads, and threads the receiver to take it. He squares it to the receiver, and squares the bolt face. He also recrowns the barrel.

If that doesn't tighten up the groups, nothing will! He claims his old Marlin fires 1/4" groups at 75 yards, with that $25 a box RWS ammo.

Hello 6Flute,
I remember reading an add for a smith that did that to Anschutz and other rifles that were worth spending that kind of effort on.
I did not realize he was so close. This is very interesting. He does sound obsessed.

I guess I would have to see the 75 yard groups.
Maybe he sells the RWS ammo hehe.

Ireload2,

He describes even tighter one hole groups with 17HMR rifles at 75 yards.(which isn't surprising) So, this kind of 1/4 " accuracy from his gunsmithing with the 22 mag seems plausible, and I trust he is being honest.

Evidently, the guy really likes what he does, and doesn't mind the labor intensity. He also must not be back logued with bunches of customers, or he wouldn't have the time to do this detailed process reasonably priced. Perhaps he's been doing this for quite awhile, but has only recently decided to go pro with it.

I really trust he is being honest, as he explains up front that the rifles are locked into a Ransome rest, and the range is at 75 yards (not 100) I asked him: "Oh crap, don't tell me that you are using that $25 a box RWS stuff". And he replied "Yes" to admit that he indeed was using RWS. So, this way, he has not been misrepresenting his results, and leasding me to false expectations. Some how, I believe there is good chances I could get those consistant sub 1" groups at 100 yards with Premium American Ammo. (Remie 33's, etc)

So anyway, the guy seems honest and competent. Shucks....what's another $200-$300 to try this before dumping my rifle?

I have been loading in preparation to going to the range.
Started out I had a hard time pulling the bullets. It seems the puller collet would not get a grip. I figured out that it needed some oil on the threads and bearing surface. Then I could turn it easily enough to get a grip.

I found a bullet stability Excel spreadsheet online and butchered it to use with my bullet data.
It looks like you are right about the twist.

A 45 grain Sierra spitzer is a tiny bit too long.
The 45 grain Sierra SMP (discontinued I think) is short enough to work.

The 40 grain Sierra HP works ok too.

A big surprise is the 50 grain SMP. Looks like it will work if it is not too slow. I have not loaded them. I am kind of concerned about that much extra weight/pressure in my puny one lug Mossberg.

I did find that the 50 grain SMP is only in the case .088 when seated to touch the rifling--I used finger pressure in the chamber. That is an OAL of 1.610. To get an adequate seating depth for the 45 grn SMPs they were seated to 1.514. Assuming the 45 SMPs have the same ogive shape the 45 SMPS are jumping .096 to touch the rifling. Looks like only .041 of the bullet is still in the case by the time it gets to the rifling.

My RCBS .22 Hornet seater does not align the bullet and brass very well so I am not expecting the accuracy to be very good.

Ireload,

It won't hurt you to try, but I'm affraid you're going to needlessly spend a lot of time discovering that even though a 40 grain or 45 grain bullet is the same weight from brand to brand, most results will likely be dismal. The Sierra HORNET is still likely to give you best results. I had also tried 33 Grain Speer Hornet TNT HP bullets with mediocre results, and Remington 45gr hp that I ordered from Midway with poor results. It seems that the Sierra 40 gr hornet bullet (stock #1200)was designed specificaly for the slow 1-16 twist. Unfortunately, we are dealing with even slower velocities from the 22 magnum (when compared to the 22 Hornet cartridge)and so the reloads that we are producing still have marginal stabalization at 100 yards. This is why the other 40 and 45 grain bullets (I already mentioned on other posts) hit the target sideways. But, your rifle is different then mine, and YMMV.

I didn't want to say it, 'cause I'm tired of being called a nut, (but who cares...I'm already considerd one for reloading a rimfire) but I have been using an inertia puller. I slip a washer around the case to hold it firm before slipping it into the collet of the inertia puller. I've done a couple of hundred reloads this way already without incident. When I was a kid, I use to set off shotshells and rifle cartridges by shooting them in the butt with a bb rifle. Another variation of this kind of mischief are those kids who have thrown cartridges into a fire. It simply amounts in a ruptured case and a lot of smoke. The bullet and case seperate in a very weak manner. So due to my personal experience with such activity, I have little fear of an ignition to this day....WITH THE EXCEPTION OF EYE INJURY! I AM SURE NOT TO BE LOOKING IN THE DIRECTION OF THE INERTIA HAMMER'S IMPACT. I also often wear safety glasses too. For many years before 9/11/01, I belonged to a hobby pyrotechnics guild and engaged in legal homemade fireworks here in Texas. Ever see the ignition and flight of a 4 lb charcoal skyrocket that utilizes a broom stick for a tail? Ask me if I'm afraid of a 22 Mag case ignition.

As far as case length, I set the bullets out as far as they would go BUT STILL FIT IN MY MAGAZINE. Though, I will only hand feed my reloads directly into the chamber (and hardly ever use the magazine) I still like to know that I have a working load that can fit in the mag. (just in case I wish to appear as normal as every other squirrel and rabbit hunter out there). My overall cartridge reload length was normally kept at a max of 1.385" It is better to put the bullet futher into the bore I realize, but then the 40 grain bullets don't hold as straight with the shorter grip either. And yes, cocentricity is very important, for evey 4 rounds I reload, about 1 turns out to be a reject. (Save it for hunting, or clearing the barrel) You will need to roll the cartridge and eyeball it for cocentricity if you don't buy a gage. I could be wrong, but I think you will soon be tired of this new pastime, when you don't see any real appreciable gains from your Mossberg. Let's hear how it goes when you've tried it at the range.

quote:

I use to set off shotshells and rifle cartridges by shooting them in the butt with a bb rifle

I held a Daisy over my head with a 12ga shotshell on the muzzle.. but only one time.
I am sure I stood there a while with a glassy look in my eyes...
I can't match your 4oz rocket but I tried. I found a can of the ether starting fluid at an oil well drilling site. I put it in a clump of grass and set the grass on fire. Then shot the can of ether...I was really disappointed.
It was a lot more fun to pick up old aerosol cans at the dump and put them in a fire.....


I know I am headed down a dead end road but I have learned a few things from you and the process. The Mossberg's throat is really much too long...and large in diameter. The large diameter is to ensure feeding but kills accuracy. The Mossberg does have a threaded barrel shank.
I shoot my rifle single shot since it is not worth a $25 magazine yet. I did notice the cases get blackened by the blowby gas same as my original Mossberg from 1966. I have also noticed grey gas residue where it blows around the case and down onto the inside of the magazine opening of the stock.
I was also thinking about expanding the brass like a trumpet to keep the case mouth centered in the chamber. That is a technique sometimes used by black powder cartridge shooters, but that will be next time.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

quote:

....

....I can't match your 4oz rocket but I tried.

"4 ounce" rocket? Are you calling me a Kansas City line dancer? That was 4 pound, not 4 ounces! It was a week before July 4th (many years ago) and my wife protested how she wasn't going to broom and mop the floor, and clean the the house anymore if I wasn't going to help, and all I was going to do was stay in the garage all day and make fireworks. So, I obliged her protest and walked away with her broom to which she wouldn't ever have to see it again. Because it served as the stabalizer stick on the next 4lb rocket I sent up on July 4th!

Geeez....you got me beat with the aerosol/ ether deal. Guess I shoulda worked at an oil rig where they are use to seeing fires and wouldn't mind someone starting one. I never really had a good place to try out my titanium fountains.

I finally got to the range and shot a few rounds.
I used the Win silver box FMJ as the basis for the loads. I picked them because they were less expensive, the bullets are strong enough to pull easily and they are slow movers at the SM Warehouse. The store has about 50 boxes so the same lot will be available for several years I think.

I loaded 3 different Sierras. The 45 SMP, the 40 HP and the 40 grn Hornet. It was chilly and a little too breezy but I shot one group with each load just to see what the pressure did.

The expanded cases of the 40 grain Hornet were measured as the base load to compare pressure. The 40 grn HP was about .001 bigger and the 45 SMP was .002 bigger. Thinking this was just a fluke. I turned the case mouths down over a bullet. The brass fired with the 40 grn Hornet had sprung back and would not take a bullet.
The 40 HP would drag some and the 45 SMP brass was expanded to a free running fit - maybe .002 over the bullet dia.

The groups were shot at 100 meters .. kinda long for the conditions.

The 45 SMP group was 2.05 - 3 rounds were in .850. Most of the spread was vertical.
Loaded round length 1.518
That is the best group ever that I can remember with this old rifle.

The 40 Hornet was 3.9 inches. 4 were in 1.4 and one vertical flyer.
Loaded round length was 1.460

The 40 HP was 4.0 inches. 4 were in 1.4 and one flyer at 45 degrees. I was really suprised there was not a lot more horizontal dispersion from the breeze.
Loaded round length was 1.520.

Back to the pressure. This rifle is a 640K Mossberg but I do not have a magazine for it.
As a result the blow-by has a place to go and it has smutted up the inside of the magazine well.

The rifle is not easy to shoot with the light weight and the poor trigger... when topped with a 12X scope.

Time to load some more for a more extensive trip to the range.

Just tried a few of the Winchester Dyna points.
I fired 15 rounds under perfect no wind conditions right at sunset and got an awful 4 inch group.

Has no one tried the Federal Premium 30 grain offerings? Those were the most accurate .22 Mag factory rounds in my old Kimber of Oregon rifle, and my newer Ruger 10/22M.

I am surprised that 30 grainers would be the most accurate, at least at 100 yards.
One of my theories is that the lighter bullets drop back through the speed of sound before 100 yards and get trans-sonic buffeting.
All that being said my worst groups have been with the 45 grain Win Dyna Point and Federal 50 grain factory stuff.
My best groups have been shot by pulling Win factory 40 grn FMJ and substituting 40 and 45 grain Sierras. The Sierra 40 grn Hornet seems to be the best with the 40 grn HP very close.
One advantage the "reloads" have is seating the bullets much longer so the jump to the rifling is shorter.

Outland Sales sells a loading they call the "Coyote Killer". Its a 35 grain VMAX w/ moly coating with a muzzle velocity of 2265 fps. It is a compressed load and the COAL is .007 longer than SAMMI for the .22 WMR. Outland warns that it may not feed in some semi-autos.

They also load the 35 grain VMAX a little tamer---2065 fps (moly coated).

Finally, Hornady is now offering factory ammo in the .22 WMR w/ a 33 grain VMAX at 2200 fps.

Lots of great ammo choices for the .22 WMR.


Jordan

Jordan,
Thanks for the tip. I have never heard of Outland Sales. I will check them out. I am curious what brand the ammo is.
EDG

Ireload2:

I think Outland reloads it themselves. Pretty sure it is the hottest .22 WMR ammo available these days. The old RWS .22 WMR ammo (before about 1998) would move a 40 grain bullet at +2100 fps, but the new stuff is downloaded significantly. So, the Outland Coyote is probably about the hottest we've got.


Jordan

I reloaded 22 mag back in 1980. We were shooting a lot of 100 yd handgun sillhouette. The 22 mag in a TC Contender 10" heavy barrel was great but lacked enough power to reliably knock over the rams.

I machined a straight line design bullet seater. I was using 50 grain sierras. I tried differant powders but went back to factory cartridge powder. After quite a few range sessions I settled on 2 tenths of a grain over the factory charge. Accuracy was in the area of 1 inch at 100 yards.

The gun had a noticable bark compared to factory ammo and would hammer the little half scale rams. I was accused of shooting 22 hornet which was illegal, bottle neck cartridge. I had to convince the range officer that I was truly reloading 22 mag.

Of course everyone who knew me expected something weird from me all the time.

quote:

Of course everyone who knew me expected something weird from me all the time.

It would sure get boring doing the same old thing over and over and over....

I did not know one could load .22 Mag. This site is really the best.

been doing this since summer of 2007 its quite a nice little hobby of mine. I have some hornady 40 g v-max, sierra 40 g ballistic tip loaded up. I have cut down cases and standard length cases loaded for cycling issues. Gonna load up some nosler 40 g balistic tip and some sierra 40 g varminter hollow points and try them all for accuracy. My total investment to get loading this costs me less than $50 this was including press, dies and shell holder.

what's the amazing part is 6flute can shoot those groups at carter's country, which is as busy as "storyville" or boy's town with an entire fleet on shore leave

BTT for new reader consumption

Thanks for the repost.
same old dimension issues keep cropping up
- excessive length chamber for the OEM rounds
- higher than desirable case dia to chamber dia clearance.
- marginal stability of many projectiles at 100M.
a/c velocity - twist combination.

it has been my personal view that the primary reason of the very significant improved accuracy of the 17HMR over 22WMR is that the OEM velocity-twist combination simply provides better stability at 100M of the OEM projectiles available .......and this is a basic flaw in the 22WMR rifle offerings.
the other issues of round to chamber fit are not insignificant but small in influence on 100M accuracy compared to the fundamental inadequate stability of the projectile in flight as it approaches 100M.

Denis,
I saw 2 girls shoot near 1" ten shot groups at 100 yards with 22 LR and ironsights prone once. (These were not ordinary shooters though. One was Sue Ann Sandusky and the other way Schuler Helbing. Both were national and international class shooters.)
I always assumed the 16" 22 LR twist was adequate. Maybe not with the jacked bullets at 100 meters? I know I have never read one single good review of the 50 grain Federal load.

Sooooo I went & did some stability calcs with OEM 30gn Vmax offerings.
2200 fps at the muzzle gives a marginal just over 1.2 stability factor
(given that 1.2-1.3 is the minimum recommended stability factor at the muzzle in the Miller formula calcs)

assuming negligible loss in rotational speed within 100M

+1700 fps at 50 yds results in a stability factor at 50 yds of +1.9

+1300 fps at 100yds results in a stability factor of +2.4.

exhibiting the classical increase in stability with distance while above transonic speeds ( or below them)

The issue with the 22WMR is that all the above mentioned chamber dimension & setback from the lands issues are having their most significant effect on trajectory at a marginal stability ex muzzle.

playing with reloads of a higher BC ,longer projectile ( say 35Vmax ) results in worsening stability ex muzzel unless the charge is increased to produce higher velocity & higher rpms.

an interesting conundrum with increased pressure from the increased charge.
But supported by test results on paper by silhouette shooters many moons ago, when fiddling with 22WMR reloads.

1:14 twist instead of the standard 1:16 barrel gets you meaningful increase ( +30%) in ex muzzle stability with OEM 30vmax loads & safer pressures upping the charge a little behind 35 vmax
( if you are into that game with care)
interestingly the 40gn gilded projectiles at 1850 fps achieve around 1.6 stability factor ex muzzle.

He He........no wonder many shooters find the 40gn gilded 22WMR OEM offerings give better results than the faster 30Vmax & 33 gn offerings on the target.