quote:

He ended up weighing 698 pounds.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
For the sake of

In the endless acknowledgement of shot placement over bore diameter, why does no one seem to consider that if one won't spend the time and ammo to learn how to shoot a larger bore rifle, what makes it more likely that they would spend the time and ammo to learn how to shoot a smaller bore rifle? The only thing that makes poor shooting worse, is poor shooting with a small rifle.

I do fully agree that heavy bullets in the .30-06 will do it all.

With that said, on my first bear hunting excursion I carried my .270 Win with 130 grain Hornady Interlocks because I followed the sage advice about carrying the rifle you know and putting your shot where it counts. Unfortunately for me, Pennsylvania black bears can come in substantial sizes.

When a bear popped out at 50 yards, the first shot was right where it should have been, just off the point of the shoulder lined up with the top of the heart. All the fat and muscle stopped that bullet before it made it into the chest cavity. A very lucky follow-on shot hit the spine and anchored the bear. He ended up weighing 698 pounds. That's the year I bought my .35 Whelen and I haven't felt over-gunned since.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
I think there's too much focus on smaller rounds in general and not enough focus on becoming proficient. Yes people will shoot smaller rounds more effectively in general, but only with practice. And regardless of whether one shoots a .270 or .458, most of the practice can (should?) be done with a .22 or by dry firing.

Here's a pretty decent shot placement chart that ADF&G put out there years ago. It's a good study and should be n
mandantory for 1st time bear hunters, a good deal of shots seem to be guartering to or fro and almost head on.
Most missed or poorly placed shot's at bears are from (bear fever) and not just bad shot placement but NO shot placement.
Two, knowing where to aim is vital. Bear and deer have their vitals in slightly different locations all covered up by very different exteriors. I bet a lot of hunters hit bear exactly where they meant to, however their aim point was not ideal.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
I would agree with whatever the Alaskan guides advise.

My feeling is that the 30.06 is more than adequate but you may want something larger for the follow up.

I carry a .500 which is the largest calibre that I can comfortably shoot. I promise you it dumps big animals even if your aim is not true.

If i ever had the privilege to hunt brown bear in Alaska I would probably base my choice of outfitter on the guns they carry.

quote:

Originally posted by BUFAF:
Phil,
Have you ever seen a .50 Alaskan used on a bear? Recently picked one up and wondering how they do. Not sure why I need it, but I do... I killed 2 brownies when I lived in Alaska and doubt I'll ever shoot another, but I can dream...

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
I would agree with whatever the Alaskan guides advise.

My feeling is that the 30.06 is more than adequate but you may want something larger for the follow up.

I carry a .500 which is the largest calibre that I can comfortably shoot. I promise you it dumps big animals even if your aim is not true.

If i ever had the privilege to hunt brown bear in Alaska I would probably base my choice of outfitter on the guns they carry.

I have used a 500 Jeffery a little but not on bears, but have uesd my 510/505 Gibbs on them and any solid hit drops them like a crane fell on them ! They still will get up but slower than if hit with something like a 375. Which is good because recovering from recoil and slamming home another rounds takes a little longer with the Gibbs also.
I also discovered that the 535 gr Woodleigh bullets had almost completely flattened out and the penetration was 1/2 of what I get with 200 and 220 gr Nosler Partitions from my 30-06.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
For the sake of

In the endless acknowledgement of shot placement over bore diameter, why does no one seem to consider that if one won't spend the time and ammo to learn how to shoot a larger bore rifle, what makes it more likely that they would spend the time and ammo to learn how to shoot a smaller bore rifle? The only thing that makes poor shooting worse, is poor shooting with a small rifle.

I do fully agree that heavy bullets in the .30-06 will do it all.

With that said, on my first bear hunting excursion I carried my .270 Win with 130 grain Hornady Interlocks because I followed the sage advice about carrying the rifle you know and putting your shot where it counts. Unfortunately for me, Pennsylvania black bears can come in substantial sizes.

When a bear popped out at 50 yards, the first shot was right where it should have been, just off the point of the shoulder lined up with the top of the heart. All the fat and muscle stopped that bullet before it made it into the chest cavity. A very lucky follow-on shot hit the spine and anchored the bear. He ended up weighing 698 pounds. That's the year I bought my .35 Whelen and I haven't felt over-gunned since.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
I would agree with whatever the Alaskan guides advise.

My feeling is that the 30.06 is more than adequate but you may want something larger for the follow up.

I carry a .500 which is the largest calibre that I can comfortably shoot. I promise you it dumps big animals even if your aim is not true.

If i ever had the privilege to hunt brown bear in Alaska I would probably base my choice of outfitter on the guns they carry.

I have used a 500 Jeffery a little but not on bears, but have uesd my 510/505 Gibbs on them and any solid hit drops them like a crane fell on them ! They still will get up but slower than if hit with something like a 375. Which is good because recovering from recoil and slamming home another rounds takes a little longer with the Gibbs also.
I also discovered that the 535 gr Woodleigh bullets had almost completely flattened out and the penetration was 1/2 of what I get with 200 and 220 gr Nosler Partitions from my 30-06.

Phil:
I have read the old 220 grain round nose .30-06 bullets (both solid and soft) were top penetrators. Would you agree? I think the ones I refer to were made by Hornady.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
I would agree with whatever the Alaskan guides advise.

My feeling is that the 30.06 is more than adequate but you may want something larger for the follow up.

I carry a .500 which is the largest calibre that I can comfortably shoot. I promise you it dumps big animals even if your aim is not true.

If i ever had the privilege to hunt brown bear in Alaska I would probably base my choice of outfitter on the guns they carry.

I have used a 500 Jeffery a little but not on bears, but have uesd my 510/505 Gibbs on them and any solid hit drops them like a crane fell on them ! They still will get up but slower than if hit with something like a 375. Which is good because recovering from recoil and slamming home another rounds takes a little longer with the Gibbs also.
I also discovered that the 535 gr Woodleigh bullets had almost completely flattened out and the penetration was 1/2 of what I get with 200 and 220 gr Nosler Partitions from my 30-06.

Phil:
I have read the old 220 grain round nose .30-06 bullets (both solid and soft) were top penetrators. Would you agree? I think the ones I refer to were made by Hornady.
Cal

Cal, In all my trials and experiences the 220 Hornady bullets fare about as well as the 240 Woodleighs in the penetration department. Which is OK but nowhere as deep as either the 200 or 220 Partitions or the 180 TSX.

Simply because a bullet is bigger does not necessarily make it better than a superior bullet.

Now the old steel jacketed 220 Hornady solids are a different story. They are as tough as any solid.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
My backup gun definition is a gun/bullet that can penetrate any bear at any angle under any circumstance.

That is a pretty fair statement and is one reason that the 30-06 was THE primary rifle carried by Alaskan guides for over half a century. And with today's modern bullets it still works and is why I continue to post this same photo of me taken with a large peninsula brown bear that had been wounded by a client and I had to wrinkle out of the pucker brush and stop his charge with my 30-06. With the 220 gr Partitions I was using I knew it had penetration equal to a .375 with Partitions. You just have to hit them right.




But there are times when things can get a bit hairy and tight and one quick shot may be all you have time for. That is when it feels more comforting to have a larger bore rifle in your hands. You still have to hit them in the right zip code but they tend to go down a little faster and stay down a little longer.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I hit my bear perfectly with a 375 H&H 300g A-Frame at 13 yards (quartering shot, went through front right shoulder, top of the heart, lungs, ended up as a perfect mushroom in the hide of the opposite rear leg, going through the bear diagonally). He rolled, stood up roared and took off into the brush. Made a lot of noise followed up and found him dead about 50 yards in the brush following a huge blood trail. I know Phil and others have had clients kill kill bigger brown bears (mine was just short of 9') DRT with 30-06s and 270s. Not sure what causes the difference, but my 375 didn't feel that big pushing through the brush following up.



300g A-Frame still weighs 299.5 grains

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
My backup gun definition is a gun/bullet that can penetrate any bear at any angle under any circumstance.

That is a pretty fair statement and is one reason that the 30-06 was THE primary rifle carried by Alaskan guides for over half a century. And with today's modern bullets it still works and is why I continue to post this same photo of me taken with a large peninsula brown bear that had been wounded by a client and I had to wrinkle out of the pucker brush and stop his charge with my 30-06. With the 220 gr Partitions I was using I knew it had penetration equal to a .375 with Partitions. You just have to hit them right.




But there are times when things can get a bit hairy and tight and one quick shot may be all you have time for. That is when it feels more comforting to have a larger bore rifle in your hands. You still have to hit them in the right zip code but they tend to go down a little faster and stay down a little longer.

Phil;

In my reloading manual on the .45-70, I've referred to this experience of your's, and knew you used a 220gr NP, but have often wondered what the MV was, approximate rang (I knew it was close), and how many shots? According to my estimates, that should take care of around a thousand pound bear -- what was it's approximate live weight?

Thanks in advance.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
In 1927 Grancel Fitz was the first person to legally take all 27 recognized head of NA Big Game. He did it all with his sporterized 1917 Remington Enfield 30-06.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
I've seen more one shot kills with the .30 cals than any of the other calibers. There is certainly nothing wrong with the .30-'06. It or the .300 win would be my "one gun to rule them all" if I had to only pick one gun.