I have only hunted bear once,I used a 450-400 double rifle,it took only one shot,on the same hunt there was another gent who used a 30 -06,it took five shots for the treed bear to fall down & give up the ghost,I just read another hunt report out of Alaska,a grizzly was shot using a 30-06,wounded & lost,what am I missing here? is 30-06 enough caliber for bears? are bears considered dangerous game ? if so why are we using inadequate calibers?

shot placement is the key.

if the 30-06 is not working that is not the caliber to question ...

As 458Win says

"Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship"
Phil Shoemaker www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

I would agree 100 percent place a proper bullet from an 06 into the proper spot you end up with a dead bear,

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
shot placement is the key.

if the 30-06 is not working that is not the caliber to question ...

Yep....a treed bear took five shots...guy shouldn't be hunting at all.

quote:

Yep....a treed bear took five shots...guy shouldn't be hunting at all.

Or the bear was lung shot and the follow up shots happen fast before the bear realized it was dead.

Mr Shoemaker likes the Nosler 200 partition from his testing and field experience on giant bears. Experience from him trumps anything else.

I've had more one shot kills with the aught six than just about all others. I was the guide on the hunt that the grizzly was lost. Had nothing to do with numbers on paper, bullet in flesh is the deciding factor. No vitals...no bear. I've had clients loose Bears to 375's and 338's. I believe this was the first one lost to a .30-'06. As much as we all want to think we are awesome, bad hits do happen on occasion. The more shots you fire the higher the odds your gonna make a bum shot. Nothing wrong with the aught six for killing Bears. As a backup gun?....I'd probably have a different opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
I've had more one shot kills with the aught six than just about all others. I was the guide on the hunt that the grizzly was lost. Had nothing to do with numbers on paper, bullet in flesh is the deciding factor. No vitals...no bear. I've had clients loose Bears to 375's and 338's. I believe this was the first one lost to a .30-'06. As much as we all want to think we are awesome, bad hits do happen on occasion. The more shots you fire the higher the odds your gonna make a bum shot. Nothing wrong with the aught six for killing Bears. As a backup gun?....I'd probably have a different opinion.

What would you choose for a backup gun?

I was not there but, even if Jake hadn't verified it, would tell you that the caliber of the rifle was not the reason for the lost bear !

Bill,

I've shot enough animals with the '06 that I'd be pretty comfortable hunting about anything with one. With the new bullets the old '06 is even better than ever. I shot a big bull elk right up the butt with my '06 and 180 TSX. He piled right on the spot. What more do you need? Yes on a dedicated grizzly or brown bear hunt I'd take something larger but if all I had was an '06 I'd be quite comfortable.

Mark

My backup gun definition is a gun/bullet that can penetrate any bear at any angle under any circumstance.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
My backup gun definition is a gun/bullet that can penetrate any bear at any angle under any circumstance.

What calibre is your carry gun?

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
My backup gun definition is a gun/bullet that can penetrate any bear at any angle under any circumstance.

That is a pretty fair statement and is one reason that the 30-06 was THE primary rifle carried by Alaskan guides for over half a century. And with today's modern bullets it still works and is why I continue to post this same photo of me taken with a large peninsula brown bear that had been wounded by a client and I had to wrinkle out of the pucker brush and stop his charge with my 30-06. With the 220 gr Partitions I was using I knew it had penetration equal to a .375 with Partitions. You just have to hit them right.




But there are times when things can get a bit hairy and tight and one quick shot may be all you have time for. That is when it feels more comforting to have a larger bore rifle in your hands. You still have to hit them in the right zip code but they tend to go down a little faster and stay down a little longer.

Always love that picture Phil! Hit them right is everything, but like say sometimes a good hit with a 416 is quicker than a good hit with something smaller.
I carry a 416 and have been for the last 12 years or so.
There's always the chance that as a backup shooter a marginal hit with a bigger gun may have more of an effect that the same hit with a smaller gun. Penetration wise, smaller guns don't lack they bore long holes, but the damage along those bullet paths can taper quicker than a larger slug. Based off my opinion. And worth absolutely zero if someone else has different experiences.

The world record Kodiak bear was taken in 1952 with a 30-06 and there were plenty of guides who chose the 30-06, and some even the .270, as their backup rifle and most of them lived long and fruitful lives.
there were other gun cranks ( as they were called then) who decided to get larger rifles, usually after a few close calls. Or mauling !
Andy Runyon went from a 375 to a 404 barnes Johnson after a close call. Joe Want, who had been mauled, through no fault of a rifle, chose a pre-64 M-70 458 until it was lost in a house fire and then choose a H&H Royal 500 nitro double ! He eventually sold that and went to a Ruger 416 Rigby.
During the early 1980's, when Nosler temporarily ceased makeing 375 partitions, I sold my 375 and relied on my 30-06 ( with 200 gr partitions) for years until one really pissed off, wounded bear was not as impressed with my shots as I was hoping. That is when I built my 458.
I still carry the 30-06 sometimes as I like it and have used many other calibers, including the 505 Gibbs, to stop wounded bears. No matter what you use however bore size will never replace bullet placement, nor muzzle energy replace bullet performance.

Always neat how most who have switched have a pivotal moment. A opinion shaking experience that causes the change. To this day I've never seen a .30-'06' in a guides hands as a backup rifle. There's slot of options out there now to though.

That is one of the reasons I keep posting that photo of me with my 30-06--- it does happen -- just not as often as it used to. Last time I saw him Dave Lazer was still carrying his as backup on the peninsula. He said he liked the fact that it held five down in the magazine.

I will say I guess I have carried my aight six as a backup when my old gun was in the shop....

Gentlemen,
thanks a lot for the comments based on your experience in the field,I do not have have a 30-06,am not sure that I need one,I have much better calibers on hand to hunt big game with,I realize that the 30-06 is a very capable caliber in the field & can certainly kill bear,but I am thinking that I would not want to have that one bad day happen to me,& where I wish that I had something more capable in hand,it's a personal choice I guess,I think when I am fortunate enough to afford a grizz hunt? it will be with at least a .416 if not a .458 cal gun,cheers.

Don't blame ya one bit

I own 5 or 6 06s and they get the job done. I built a 416 Taylor with the idea of a brown bear hunt.

After standing next to several full body mounts of large brown bears I thought to myself what would rather shoot one with, I decided a 416.

I got mine with a 375 Weatherby with a 300g A-Frame. After being up close and personal (I shot him at 13 yards through a bush) I might bring my 500 Jeffery next lol.

Bear hunts are a great excuse to buy a new rifle - for those of you who actually need an excuse !

When clients ask me what caliber to bring I first ask them what they have and is their favorite and if they have a 270, 7mm or 30-06 I tell them to buy premium ammo and bring it.
But, if they still feel the need to buy something bigger I suggest either a .338 or a .375. They still have to be able to shoot it well. And if they do, which ever caliber they choose, they will have a trophy to take home.
"Backup" is the guides job and I don't want anyone who could not properly hit an unwounded bear at <100 yards> when they were relatively calm following me in the pucker brush with a loaded rifle !

You are right Phil hitting them in the right place is a lot more important then the caliber used.

I told the wife I needed the 416 to keep the elephants out of the garden.

She said we don't have any elephants in the garden.

I said see it is working already.

Works in my garden too!!

I had a 30.06 once, it came in a DCM M-1 Garand that I got in 1983.

I never had a use for the cartridge as I already owned a 308 Win.

Yes to 30-06 will kill a bear, I would take my 375. Dave

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
You are right Phil hitting them in the right place is a lot more important then the caliber used.

I told the wife I needed the 416 to keep the elephants out of the garden.

She said we don't have any elephants in the garden.

I said see it is working already.

lol! I don't even have a story for my 500 Jeffery, just an understanding wife.

I do the majority of my hunting with a 30/06. Deer, elk, hogs, etc. I could understand an Alaskan resident hunting brown/grizzly bears with a 30/06, possibly funds are limited and that's what he owns. But it doesn't provide any margin for error. With the cost involved for a non-resident brown/grizzly hunt surely the hunter can afford a .338, .375 or .416 rifle. The larger calibers do make larger wounds and produce larger blood trails. If the recoil bothers someone they can put a muzzle brake on it. Even black bears can be very dangerous at times. Well, actually I do all my deer hunting with a 7x57.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I had a 30.06 once, it came in a DCM M-1 Garand that I got in 1983.

I never had a use for the cartridge as I already owned a 308 Win.

There have been plenty of big bears killed with those as well

If we count polar bears I'm not sure there is a caliber that hasn't
Talleyed up a body count.

Bill,
Once I was young and had only 2 rifles, a 760 .30-06 and a finnbear .338 mag. Always thought the .338 was not necessary and stuck to 220 CoreLocs. Killed quite a few bears and never let one wander away wounded. Rifle worried more than the bullet choice tho', darn bolt would pick up some kind of debris and failed to chamber generally the second shot when it happened. Some pucker power going to work then.
Sold it eventually, kind of cheap and kind of wore out. Should of just gave it away come to think about. Something about the dollar I suppose. Now my arsenal consists of big bores an 5 .30-06's....all bolt guns. I've learned to make my shots count, nothing wrong with the aught six.

quote:

nothing wrong with the aught six

Never heard a complaint and when I was young I shot and followed up a number of buff with this calibre. Back then it gave me a lot of confidence and is still one of my favourite calibers. A true classic.

Nowadays I can't run much so I carry something a bit bigger.

I really like my -06 and the tsx bullets. Locally I've used it on moose and a bear and was 100% satisfied.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

nothing wrong with the aught six

Never heard a complaint and when I was young I shot and followed up a number of buff with this calibre. Back then it gave me a lot of confidence and is still one of my favourite calibers. A true classic.

Nowadays I can't run much so I carry something a bit bigger.

Andrew,

csn you share the bullets you used in those days?

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

nothing wrong with the aught six

Never heard a complaint and when I was young I shot and followed up a number of buff with this calibre. Back then it gave me a lot of confidence and is still one of my favourite calibers. A true classic.

Nowadays I can't run much so I carry something a bit bigger.

Andrew,

csn you share the bullets you used in those days?

Phil

I used a 220 grain monolithic solid and the so called softs were 180 grain PMP or something or other from South Africa. I seem to remember that the soft was rounded with a lead core? I normally hunted for meat with a mate and we always shot buff broadside at less than 80 yards and low in the lungs and across the top or in the heart. Never had a scary moment.

As someone noted - shoot them right with the first shot.

I have personally seen a lion killed by a single shot from a 30-06. Total penetration . Would i hunt bear with one? Yes but not my first choice.

Shot placement is the greatest key, then bullet performance. But if you can shoot a 458 as well as you can shoot an 06 then the choice is obvious. Wider is better. Because, some times the bear doesn't offer enough time or angle or things are happening real fast. If I get a chance, I'm gonna kill a good bear with my 6.5 Creedmoor. Mainly because I just want to and know that if an 06 can kill some thing then the 6.5 can do it just as well.
Would I choose it over my 458 if things were not optimal, nope. The problem is that, many people just don't shoot the smaller rifles like the 06 much better than they do bigger rifles. If a guy isn't going to practice then he won't be able to hit with about anything. Really, it's just sight picture and trigger control. Which is why I like to grouse hunt with my fur rifle and deer hunt with my bear rifle. If you can head shoot a little forked horn buck at 150 yards with a 458 or 416 from a quick kneeling position . You don't have much to worry about on a bear. Provided, your bullets are substantiality constructed.
I do know that there are alot more bear walking around packin 30caliber bullets than there are 416 or 458 bullets. At least on the A,B,Cs. ( Admiralty, Baranof, Chichagof . And the mainland of Southeast.

Fjold,
Why would you want a 308 if you can have a 30-06? The only advantage is lots of cheap ammo.

hear the same story ever year" don't need anything more than an 06 unless you are hunting elephants" then you hear the "bear story ever year" another guy telling how a bear poked its head through the bushes 3 ft away or got charged or whatever shoots it with an 06 usually runs off or takes 8 shots now hes buyin a 338