thoughts on the 416taylor

03 January 2006, 03:05

I planned on sending my 338 to get rebored to a 458 but the barrel is a little to thin, the smith said he could do a 416 taylor no problem. Any thoughts on this round? what are the ballistics like and does anybody hunt with this round and would you feel comfortable with it with the bears...one more ? will the recoil be close to a 458 or what..thanks

03 January 2006, 03:25

free_miner

I had one on a tang safety Ruger 77 and a 21" #5 douglas stainless barrel.

Ballistics were ~2750 with a 300 X and 2350 with a 400 Hornady.

At the time I built it the 416 Remington didn't exist, otherwise there is no reason not to just go to the Remington cartridge.

Recoil with the 300 gr load is not much more than a heavy 338 250 grain load or a 375 HH, assuming equal rifle weights of course.

For some reason the 416 taylor seems to be catching on again, Lee makes off-the-shelf dies and A&B make pre-chambered barrels.

03 January 2006, 07:56

waterrat

I'd planned to rebarrel a 300win mag to the Taylor after corresponding with Andy Runyon and reading every artical on earth with Taylor goodies. Andy had high regards for the Taylor and that was good enough for me then- A fellow I was guiding on a moose hunt said he could turn the 300 into a 425express very easily. He left for home with mine as well and in a couple of months it showed up as an Express. I'm using 350X's as the've got plenty of poop and are a little easier to control than 400's. A 416 Taylor would be a sweet rig for brown bear.

03 January 2006, 10:41

I've got a 416 Taylor. I've shot one black bear (170 yards) with a North Fork 370gr bullet. It dropped right away (shoulder shot.)

I backed up a friend shooting a smallish (7ft) brownie. His Fail Safe (from a 338WM) penetrated from head to tail, and the bear would have died very quickly with that shot. But, my friend had asked me to put in a follow up shot if the bear didn't drop immediately. It didn't, so I did. It dropped then.

It's a good cartridge. I can only get 2400fps by using the slightly lighter bullet. My barrel is 23 inches long.

05 January 2006, 02:32

p dog shooter

IF you don't mine reloading it is a good round.

I built mine on a Ruger stainless MKII with a 25 in douglas barrel.

I get 2650 with a 300 gr bullet and a easy 2450 with a 350 gr bullet.

It well take care of anything walking.

05 January 2006, 04:25

MuskegMan

quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
IF you don't mine reloading it is a good round.

I built mine on a Ruger stainless MKII with a 25 in douglas barrel.

I get 2650 with a 300 gr bullet and a easy 2450 with a 350 gr bullet.

It well take care of anything walking.

05 January 2006, 05:02

p dog shooter

With 4,650 ft-lbs of energy, animals will tremble before you and beg for mercy!!!!

Wonder what you could do with that 400 gr partition?

I know I'd be looking pretty smug with that big ol' brownie rattling his teeth in front of me.

Muskegman

The only over kill I have seen is when there is nothing useful left of the animal you shot. IE body shot rabbits with a 06 or so.

Don't quite understand where you are going with this.

05 January 2006, 05:13

MuskegMan

quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Don't quite understand where you are going with this.

I'm not going anywhere. Where did you think I was going?

I'm from Alaska. I have a 375 Taylor. I shoot 300 gr at 2,600 fps for a paltry 4,500 ft-lbs.

I have absolutely no problem shooting a 100 lb Blacktail doe with this rifle. Did it this past fall. Now a .460 Wby . . . that's where I draw the line on overkill.

05 January 2006, 05:35

Jay Johnson

Grizzinater

Well the 416 would more than do the job on bears. But I'm wonder why a 416 Taylor over a 416 Remington. I can see no real ballistic difference. The Taylorâ€™s brass costs $43 for 20 cases and $126 for dies from RCBS. In comparison the 416 Remington 100 cases for $39.99 and a sets of the same RCBS dies for $42.99. I know you can readily find 416 Remington premium loads probably harder to find 416 Taylor. An example in comparison of cost follows. Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Remington Magnum 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 $99.99 Federal Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Rigby 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Box of 20 147.99 So for a rifle that is pretty much the same as a 416 Remington I'd find it hard to justify the extra cost and extra effort to find components or ammo for the Taylor. Both guns push the 400 Gr. bullet just over 2400 fps.

05 January 2006, 05:42

Jay Johnson

quote:
Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
Grizzinater

Well the 416 would more than do the job on bears. But I'm wonder why a 416 Taylor over a 416 Remington. I can see no real ballistic difference. The Taylorâ€™s brass costs $43 for 20 cases and $126 for dies from RCBS. In comparison the 416 Remington 100 cases for $39.99 and a sets of the same RCBS dies for $42.99. I know you can readily find 416 Remington premium loads probably harder to find 416 Taylor. An example in comparison of cost follows. Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Remington Magnum 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 $99.99 Federal Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Taylor 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Box of 20 can't find. So for a rifle that is pretty much the same as a 416 Remington I'd find it hard to justify the extra cost and extra effort to find components or ammo for the Taylor. Both guns push the 400 Gr. bullet just over 2400 fps.

05 January 2006, 05:43

Jay Johnson

quote:
Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
Grizzinater

Well the 416 would more than do the job on bears. But I'm wonder why a 416 Taylor over a 416 Remington. I can see no real ballistic difference. The Taylorâ€™s brass costs $43 for 20 cases and $126 for dies from RCBS. In comparison the 416 Remington 100 cases for $39.99 and a sets of the same RCBS dies for $42.99. I know you can readily find 416 Remington premium loads probably harder to find 416 Taylor. An example in comparison of cost follows. Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Remington Magnum 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 $99.99 Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Taylor 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Box of 20 can't find. So for a rifle that is pretty much the same as a 416 Remington I'd find it hard to justify the extra cost and extra effort to find components or ammo for the Taylor. Both guns push the 400 Gr. bullet just over 2400 fps.

05 January 2006, 05:45

Jay Johnson

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
Grizzinater

Well the 416 would more than do the job on bears. But I'm wonder why a 416 Taylor over a 416 Remington. I can see no real ballistic difference. The Taylorâ€™s brass costs $43 for 20 cases and $126 for dies from RCBS. In comparison the 416 Remington 100 cases for $39.99 and a sets of the same RCBS dies for $42.99. I know you can readily find 416 Remington premium loads probably harder to find 416 Taylor. An example in comparison of cost follows. Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Remington Magnum 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 $99.99 Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Taylor 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 can't find. So for a rifle that is pretty much the same as a 416 Remington I'd find it hard to justify the extra cost and extra effort to find components or ammo for the Taylor. Both guns push the 400 Gr. bullet just over 2400 fps.

05 January 2006, 05:48

Jay Johnson

Grizzinater

Well the 416 would more than do the job on bears. But I'm wonder why a 416 Taylor over a 416 Remington. I can see no real ballistic difference. The Taylorâ€™s brass costs $43 for 20 cases and $126 for dies from RCBS. In comparison the 416 Remington 100 cases for $39.99 and a sets of the same RCBS dies for $42.99. I know you can readily find 416 Remington premium loads probably harder to find 416 Taylor. An example in comparison of cost follows. Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Remington Magnum 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 $99.99 Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Taylor 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 can't find. So for a rifle that is pretty much the same as a 416 Remington I'd find it hard to justify the extra cost and extra effort to find components or ammo for the Taylor. Both guns push the 400 Gr. bullet just over 2400 fps.[/QUOTE]

05 January 2006, 05:49

Jay Johnson

Double duh

05 January 2006, 05:49

free_miner

quote:
Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
Grizzinater

Well the 416 would more than do the job on bears. But I'm wonder why a 416 Taylor over a 416 Remington. I can see no real ballistic difference. The Taylorâ€™s brass costs $43 for 20 cases and $126 for dies from RCBS. In comparison the 416 Remington 100 cases for $39.99 and a sets of the same RCBS dies for $42.99. I know you can readily find 416 Remington premium loads probably harder to find 416 Taylor. An example in comparison of cost follows. Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Remington Magnum 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Box of 20 $99.99 Federal Premium Cape-Shok Ammunition 416 Rigby 400 Grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Box of 20 147.99 So for a rifle that is pretty much the same as a 416 Remington I'd find it hard to justify the extra cost and extra effort to find components or ammo for the Taylor. Both guns push the 400 Gr. bullet just over 2400 fps.

only reason I can see is if you have a 98 action or a Ruger 77 that can't be easily modified (or you don't want to modify) to take the full length magnums. The remington will outrun the taylor by 150-200 fps.

Taylor components aren't bad, LEE dies for $25, Hornady's for $57, and 338 Win mag brass for $33/100

05 January 2006, 06:34

PostDriver

IMHO, the main reason for doing the Taylor is due to the action involved. The Taylor will fit nicely, where the Rem will prob take some major lengthening to work.

Also, there's a chance you may be able to get 4 down with the Taylor.

I'm looking at doing the Taylor on a LH Daly Mauser action.

05 January 2006, 10:57

quote:
Wonder what you could do with that 400 gr partition?

My rifle grouped'em like a shotgun.

06 January 2006, 02:33

Jay Johnson

BW that is another very good point. Proven handloads are the only thing I would use on dangerous game. Factory ammo is just too much of an unkown in my opinion even premium ammo.

06 January 2006, 21:22

Paul H

Taht or our new wildcat the 416 AR would be the ticket. I'd likely opt for a 350 gr X or 370 gr Northfork at about 2500 fps, recoil on par with a 375 H&H, and a big ol hole

08 January 2006, 01:26

boom stick

paul...i'd say 2600fps

its the best/cheapest thing you can get in a win mag action

08 January 2006, 03:16

If you want a .458 just rebarrel using a pac nor barrel would not be much deraer than at any rate, you won't have the wild cat issues and there would be no flies on a 400 gr barnes x bullet or 400 gr woodleigh protected point which would give you slightly better velocity than the taylor round due to better expansion ratio I think.

On the Other hand Ruger should legitimise the .416 Taylor in there stainless synthetic MK11.................I reckon it would sell like hot cakes as would the .458 winnie in the same gun.

08 January 2006, 03:57

JohnB

I've a .416 Taylor on the old style Ruger M-77, 24in Douglas barrel that I had Magna Ported, my .300 win mag kicks harder than the .416. I've taken many a blacktail with it, couple of moose and one bear. I use 400gr Swift, Kodiak and Hornady bullets, 2350-2400 fps, 5400fbs at the muzzel. Out to 200yds, with a rest, I'm grouping in 3 in or so...good enough for me...It's a bit much for climbing large hills with (so wouldn't ever think of taking it on a sheep hunt

) I just really like the gun and it's served me well. Good luck with your project.

John

10 January 2006, 02:03

Snowwolfe

quote:
Originally posted by grizzinater:
I planned on sending my 338 to get rebored to a 458 but the barrel is a little to thin, the smith said he could do a 416 taylor no problem. Any thoughts on this round? what are the ballistics like and does anybody hunt with this round and would you feel comfortable with it with the bears...one more ? will the recoil be close to a 458 or what..thanks

Grizz,
Who are you having to do the reboring? Mind telling me the cost?

10 January 2006, 10:17

grizzinater

snowolf, i sent it to delta gun shop in washington and it will be a little over 300 i beleive. i have seen his work before and it is amazing. I am thinking of sending one of my winchester m70stainless in 375 to get rebored to 458lott. i know alot of people think you should just get it rebarreled but its neat how it looks just like a factory gun..

10 January 2006, 11:36

Snowwolfe

I agree. Reboring seems to be a lost art. Does this shop have a web site?

10 January 2006, 20:55

dgr416

I like the 416 Rem mag.The brass is pretty cheap and not that hatd to get.The 458 win mag brass is getting harder to find.Its only made on special runs.Cabelas has a mamna ported 416 Taylor built on the old Ruger 77 action.Its $1200 I think.It would cost more than that to have one built.I love the old tang safety better than the new one.I thought about a 416 ultra mag but I think 375 ultra mag brass will disapear pretty soon.If you dont mind necking up 338 brass then it might not be so bad.I just hate making brass.I have a 375 jdj and hate making brass for it.Eveytime I mess up a case I say why am I doing this.I wish Ruger had made more than 12 of the 416 Taylors that they made.

11 January 2006, 01:39

Snowwolfe

When you guys form 416 Taylor brass do you go up from 338 or down from 458?

11 January 2006, 07:38

p dog shooter

Go down from 458 it is realy easy> I tried the up from 338 it is a lot harder and one ruins a lot more casings.

11 January 2006, 07:41

p dog shooter

dgr416 I did mine on a stainless MKII with a new douglas barrel ans leupold 1.75x6 a after market trigger I have 1200 into. But I did the stock and trigger work myself.

11 January 2006, 11:35

grizzinater

snowolfe, try http://www.deltagunshop.com

29 January 2006, 01:10

bearhunt'r

quote:
Originally posted by grizzinater:
I planned on sending my 338 to get rebored to a 458 but the barrel is a little to thin, the smith said he could do a 416 taylor no problem. Any thoughts on this round? what are the ballistics like and does anybody hunt with this round and would you feel comfortable with it with the bears...one more ? will the recoil be close to a 458 or what..thanks

You've probably had your answers and all allready and, though I'm late posting, will respond anyway

Mauser 98 416 Taylor
400grn Hornady @2350fps
range: 16'
penetration: over 51"
result: see picture

best,
bhtr