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Shot a handful with the 270 And the 308. Worked just as well for the conditions the shots were taken as any other rifle. Bullet selection I think is more crucial. Berger bullets have zero place in brown bear rifles. | |||
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I shot an antelope with a 30-06 180 VLD at 325yds, went right through exit hole that you could put a football through, definitely not a thick skin bullet NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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I have shot 2 one in AK and one in Russia. In AK with a 375 H&H at 30 yards dead center of the shoulder needed another quick shot as he came down and was taking off, doubt he would have gone far but i shot anyway. The one in Russia was at 200 yards on a hillside, one shot with a 35 Whelen didn't move an inch. Arjun Reddy | |||
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340 Wby 3-7-5 H&H There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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Any 30 cal will do it | |||
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You are going to have a great hunt Dogcat. I hunted moose with Phil several years ago - saw all kinds of brown bears. FWIW, I shot one on the Penninsula with a .338 WM and 250 Swifts. | |||
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Ross, I think you have the perfect combination of cartridge and outfitter. The only brown bear I’ve shot was with a .338 win mag and 250 grain partition. Bear went perhaps 30 yards or so and died. I really want to do one more brown bear hunt (idea presently on hold due to dealing with some serious health issues of elderly mother and spouse) and when I go it’ll be with the Shoemaker’s; I think they’re excellent. And as great as I think a .338 is for brown bears, I’ll probably take my .375 as I simply love how that rifle shoots. Either rifle would be great as they’re both stainless barreled model 70’s with fiberglass stocks, so about as weather proof as possible. A 300 grain Bearclaw or TSX should be excellent on a big fall brownie. | |||
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Ever thought 404 Jeffery? I shot moose with it Nice. And fairly light gun I’m gonna take it for black bear in Idaho Definitely would be good cartridge for griz | |||
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My experience is only with large Coastal Black Bears and have guided many over 600 pounds My favorite is a 375. Drops them dead and I do not have to crawl on my hands and keens and track in thick bush. I carry a 4570 double in case there is a charge. | |||
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Interesting range of Calibers!! I have a question, especially for Phil: I fished and hunted SE ALASKA for more than 30 years with a great old Bear guide. He owned the charter yacht, and was the B Guide for the Master Guide who brought hunters over the years. He claimed that it was not wise to shoot Brown Bears with a 458 Win Mag as they had seen several incidents where the long hair wrapped around the bullet on entry and simply left a hardball size ball of hair just under the skin!! Did not stop the Bears!! Fact or was this unusual performance?? I have no reason not to believe them!! I shot my Brownie on Baranof Island with my trusty pre-64 Model 70 Winchester, 375 H&H, Trophy Bonded 300gr Federal loads. 470EDDY | |||
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Odd things occasionally happen, but My 40 years of experience with the 458 has shown that any solidly constructed 400-500 gr 458 diameter bullet going between 1600-2100 fps will usually completely penetrate even the largest bear and leave a massive wound channel. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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The 458 made its name in Africa on massive game like elephants and Cape buffalo where deep penetration was required. The 45-70 lever actions always held a great reputation here in N America , and especially in SE Alaska. They also penetrate well , WITH PROPER BULLET SELECTION . Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Very interesting!! This would have been 80s vintage Winchester ammo and bullets. Maybe just an ananomaly of circumstances?? They claimed it happened more than once. I know there were issues with early 458 Win ammo not performing properly and at least one African PH I knew got chewed by a Lion when the bullet failed to open up...zinged right thru and didn't stop him!! I expect the new spire point A-Frames and others at full design speed around 2150fps should do the trick!! 470EDDY | |||
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For a modern understanding of the .458 Win Mag's capabilities, go to: 24 hr CAMPFIRE.com/ Express Rifles and Big Bores Only/ "The Great .458 Winchester Magnum. . . etc. There are nearly 200 pages that make the most comprehensive document ever available on that great cartridge. Without reading that document, none, aside from Phil who has contributed, will have a thorough understanding of how "modern" and useful that great Winchester .458 creation, not only WAS, but IS! Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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Bob, Thank you, I will take a look!! I read through your website, very interesting as well. I have an original 86 Winchester with one of the first John Buehmiller test 458 barrels trimmed down and chambered in 45-70. I used to loaf the HEAVY Elmer Keith 3031 loads in it, but there weren't any good heavier bullets at the time. I always imagined hunting Cape Buff with it, but never got around to it!! With the good bullets of today you have commented on, and velocities from your Ruger No.1, I know it could happen, Brown Bear too!! CHEERZ, 470EDDY | |||
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I understand the question was mostly for Phil, but I will add my couple decades of bear client experience in this pot if that’s ok? I have found more urban legends and stories surround bear hunting than just about any other game. “Truths” and “facts” that are just hearsay and rumors passed down for generations. Maybe of which can be dispelled with simple conversations with some noted bear biologists. “Stories” told and accounts told around campfires about bear kills and bear hunting that are just Tough to believe. A bears hair wrapping around a bullet, my first Thought is they have zero way of being able to prove this is what happen. I guess I’m saying take every bear story with a grain of salt…someone will have a better one soon. Lol | |||
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My story comes from the late Tee Smith of Sitka, who I believe held Msster Guide License #1!! He chartered my friends 80ft yacht for 18 seasons for spring and fall black and brown bear hunts. I had chartered for years fishing with the yacht owner and he claims to have witnessed that ball of hair on Brown Bear with the 458 Win Mag, TWICE!! He also had a client with a 458 stand in front of on oncoming Brownie and chambered all 4-5 rounds, never pulling the trigger!! Of course not the problem of rifle or caliber... just another amusing story!! I was the lucky guy to take the largest Brownie they took in 18 seasons, as they were winding down, I recall one more hunt after mine!! 91/2feet in Southeast!! Of course skull not competing with Kodiak or Peninsula bears, but a good SCI score... Many memories!!...and we had many brushes with them while we were hiking streams for trout and silvers.... Blackies stealing our catch left to pick up on the hike out!! CHEERZ, 470EDDY | |||
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I believe Hal Waugh had Master Guide license #1. | |||
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Hal Waugh was Master guide no 1 . If this Tee Smith fellow is claiming he was then I think his statement of multiple examples of bullets fired from a 458 balling up in the bears fur and hide might also come into question Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Please let me clarify... NO, it was not Tee Smith having spoken about the 458 Win Mag wrapping a hair ball around the bullet!! It was his B Guide, and the owner of the yacht who I chartered with for over 30 years who told that story!! Tee passed away 5-10 years ago so I can't ask him fir verification of the story. My yacht owner friend still is alive, but with building memory issues, I will ask him again about the bullet story, and what Master Guide license Tee held??.... I am now thinking it was #2 or 3?? I have contacted APHA to see if they can assist in this clarification?? Doing that, I also found the great APHA raffle for Alaska hunts, and the SCI ANCHORAGE CHAPTER Brown Bear and Sitka Deer raffle!! I will contribute to both!! BINGO!! $100/Ticket... 470EDDY | |||
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There is no possibility of even 22 not penetrating bear hide unless very little powder behind the bullet S0 calling that hair wrapped bullet story Farside cartoon | |||
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Guys, Hard to know what bullet they were shooting in the bear hair balling up story but bullets made for 45-70 usage are usually poor performers with full power 458 loads. I've seen 350 Hornady Inteloc nearly disintegrate on a rib shot on a caribou. I of course do not have the experience with the 4-5-8 that some others do but I have shot elephant, buffalo, moose and caribou with mine with full satisfaction. I used Hornady 500 Interloc, 350 TSX and a couple of solids. All worked perfectly. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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My Outfitter refused to take me with a .30-06, then I bought a .300 Wthby and he refused to take me with that, which had now put a damper on my budget, I thought about it and if I planned on going to Africa in the future to get a .375 and use 300 gr. NP, or if I didn't plan on going to Africa, then for N. America use only I would get more use out of a .340 Wthby with 250 gr. NP. So I took my B.&C. Brown Bear on Afognak Island with the .340, which for my scenario probably by chance worked out to be the perfect caliber. I did not get complete pass thru, but I did break both shoulders, do massive damage and found several rounds in the skin on the far side. I beleive my bear may still be the largest taken on Afognak. I think the shooters skill and comfort with the recoil of his choice of rifles is more important than the caliber(within reason). Or, to put it another way, A good fatal first round hit with a rifle that you shoot well and have lots of rounds thru, is better than a rifle you just bought for this hunt and have few rounds thru and will likely not use again in your lifetime. Cold Zero | |||
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Awesome can you post a pic of your bear Cold Zero! Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I will ask the HH6 if she can scan it for me. Considering how long ago it was, I have a high quality video of the action, like being there. Cold Zero | |||
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I just received the response from APHA, "Tee" Smith held Master Guide License #30. He was a USF&W Biologist in Petersburg, and later Juneau... before statehood and did alot of deer studies, before moving to Sitka in 1970 and becoming a Bear guide...T Smith passed away in 2012, age 96!! See how memories fade over 30-40 years!! WOW!! Also, just a clarification AGAIN, it was NOT T Smith who related the story of the 458 bullets wrapping up the fur balls!! It was the owner of the yacht Tee chartered, who was a B Guide... Next time we sip a scotch together I will entertain this interesting topic again!!... but he is mid 80s now and slipping memory ..... that story may be gone by now... never to be proven!!?? The time frame would have been late 1970s to early 1980s. Presumably, the original Win 500gr round nose, soft points??... could have been reloads too ... anybody's guess??!! CHEERZ, 470EDDY | |||
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The original 510 gr Soft nosed bullets Winchester originally loaded in the 458 were fairly soft but in my experience expanded and held together well. They were deadly on big bears. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Your Outfitter wouldn’t take you with a 30-06 or 300 Mag…. My guide on Kodiak, Max Schwab, carried a 30-06 as his rifle when guiding me! Lynn Castle carried a 300 Weatherby on that same hunt. I had the biggest rifle in camp with my 338. | |||
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I would like to know who Your outfitter is. He may be a great guide but obviously knows little about rifles or cartridges. I too have used the 30-06 on numerous massive brown bears, Legendary Kodiak guides, Bill Pinnell & Morris Tallifson, recommended it and the world record Brown Bear taken on Kodiak in 1952 was killed with a 30-06. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Phil PM sent. I read a couple of books on Pinnell and Tallifson. I really enjoyed the read. Cold Zero | |||
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Used a 375 H&H 300 gr TSX on mine. Any good 375 bullet, TSX happens to shoot best on my rifle. Aframe, Northfork, or Woodleigh would be just as good. I'd have no issue with a 250-275 gr bullet in a 35 Whelen loaded at 2,575 and 2,500 respectively. or a Woodleigh 310 gr. PS: My Kodiak and 375 in profile pic  "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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Not sure what caliber the lever action rifle in this picture is, but it doesn't look big enough!  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I agree.... However, a bullet in the right place usually does the trick... Just ask John Wick... | |||
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Actually, that would be about 25 bullets in the right place ....... Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing. | |||
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That's not a bear, that's a bear! Plagarized Crocodile Dundee Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I’ve seen them killed with 223s and 243s. Not recommending and I wouldn’t do it but the natives up here seem to have no qualms about using them. Majority I’ve seen killed with 270, 308,3006 and 300 Winchester. Biggest screwup I’ve seen was with a 375hh (not the rifles fault) guy shot the bear 7 times before actually hitting anything vital. 3006 or bigger with a good bullet like a nosler partition. Shooting big bears with target bullets (Berger,amax etc) is just a good way to get someone chewed on. | |||
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I killed mine (8 footer) with a 180gr nozler partition 300 WM ,one time at 100 yds, dead. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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Wonder what Hosea Sarber and Ralph Young could tell us about calibers and shots when those selections and choices were few and far between Those were true legends in SE Alaska back then | |||
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From what I have read by both of them, they liked the 30-06 Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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