I'm moving ahead with my .358 STA project. Based on real-world experience with similar rounds, what are your recommendations regarding barrel length. Assume that the rifle will be used on everything from brown bear in Southeast to Caribou north of the Brooks Range.

Thanks,

Dave

Seems to me you'd want a good 24" to take advantage of the STA's speed. You're looking at the gammut of the thickest possible cover and close range shots to the most wide open on those two extremes.

Personally I'd prefer something with a 22" barrel in the alders for bears and would trade the velocity of the STA for larger dia heavier bullet, and a good light 300 mag for barren ground caribou. I've never found a do it all gun to accel at anything. You also should factor in a shootable 358 STA will be a fairly heavy gun.

I'm with Paul on barrel length. If you get 2900 fps with a 250gr or 2700 with the 275's you are getting what the cartridge was designed to do. I'm not from Alaska, but I do know that anything over 22" can become a pain in the thick, but that is way to short for the .358, not velocity wise but ear splittin' wise. Sounds like fun though and post some pics when it is done.

Southeast coastal hunting? Not getting deep into the woods? Boat hunting? Open ground caribou: 26"

Cut the barrel down you get super muzzle blast, especially in closed in areas if you are in fact thick in the alder. Bad on the ears. Get yourself some Peltor Tac-Coms.

Where this comes from is that my older daughter is planning to move to Alaska with her husband who grew up in Homer and my younger daughter wants to apply to the University of Alaska in Fairbanks for college. I plan on doing a lot of visiting and will of coarse have to check out the hunting. With luck, I might talk my wife into a move to the great white north so that she can be close to her babies.

I prefer to hunt on foot, and to get back into the country that I am hunting, though from what I have heard of Southeast, that can be a daunting task. The intention is to build an all-weather rifle that I can use for most everything. As a handloader and general rifle nut, I want something a little different from the generic .338 Winchester. Since I already shoot a .375 H&H and a .458 Lott, I am relatively recoil tolerant, but I hadn't considered the muzzle blast aspect of a barrel shorter that 26 inches.

Maybe I should consider a .338 Winchester or .358 Norma with a 24-inch barrel instead of the .358 STA, or alternately build two guns, the .358 STA for open county and a .35 Whelen, 9.3x62, or .375 Hawk with a 20-inch barrel for the thick stuff.

loud-n-boomer ----- I can only say one thing, if you back off your original .358 STA project, you will be dishonoring your AR handle. If you continue and actually shoot the STA, you will discover one of the most versital chamberings to come down the pike for a hunter of game worldwide. I have two STA's, both have 26' barrels with muzzle brakes, the lengths are to the end of the brakes. My son and I have hunted with these rifles from Colorado (thick oak brush and cedars around Craig), to Alaska in Big Bear country, to Alberta and the jess of the Selous, and we have never found the length to be a handicap whatsoever. On the contrary the ballistics they offer are wonderful. 270 grain 2950 fps and up, 250 grain 3050 fps and up, 225 grain 3150 fps and up. These rifles are both customs with stainless barrels, both Model 70's, one the modern pre-64 action the other post 64 action. Both are hunted with extensively, not eye candy, although when polished will hold their own anywhere. ----- My point is this, stick to your guns. You will find that with the bullets available on todays market (North Fork is my top performer) this chambering is very hard to beat. Superior to the .375 H&H, IMO because of much better ballistics on the 270 grain bullet. Once you shoot the STA, there is no going back. Good luck and good shooting.

Boomer I would not want any longer barrel length on my rifle than 24 inches while hunting bear. I have a .375Wby model 70 with a 23 inch barrel and it works great in the thick stuff.

Bommer you might want to check out the .338 Win mag caliber, it is very popular up in that area for everything on 4 legs.

Using a Swift 275 grain bullet, it has an SD (sectional density) of .344 and BC over 400. You can also keep the weight of that rifle down to 8.5 pounds with scope or less.

Loudnboomer : I think phurley is absoulutly correct......................................So much so ,, you migt try to duplicate one of his rifles;...................................The 358 Norma is a great round, Its super efficent , very fast and you can get away with a bit shorter barrel................................
The STA is faster than the 340 Whby and the 338 RUM.... Both of those are great but the STA is faster......................................With the 250 gr LOST RIVER BALLISTICS J 36 ...Its right up there with the 416 Rem 300gr X @2900.
For a one rifle one load do everything well rifle........ I would take the time to ask LOST RIVER on their recomendationfor correct twist..... ...................................My 338 RUM had a 26" barrel my 416 Red Mister has a 22" with the McGowan 20 port muzzel brake for right at 24" over all. My lott has a factory 25 " and my root bears out or the brush 458 win mag has a 19 3/4 plus a muzzel break for about 22"None of them were or are too long..................If you go crawling thru the thickest brush you can find {which is real noisey } you would find a long barreled revolver too long ,,..........................Let alone something like a Guide Gun or Ruger Frontier.................. . And the electronic hearing protectors are the cats meow... I don,t care if you have a brake or not. You shoot a rifle in real dense big timber or brush and it will clap your ears........A 357 mag. 4" revolver will make your ears ring for a couple days sometimes....................If you already have a 375 H&H you don,t need anything else But , if you are makeing up an Alaskan all around working rifle . A stainless model 70 long action .........A 12" twist 24" Pac Nor barrel . A muzzel brake .. A McMillan SAKO Hunter style stock with a nice short length of pull............... Barrel band sling swivel to keep the muzzel lower when walking .. And one of the new high teck recoil pads...............That is a description of what mine will be .....A 2- 10 power scope or simular with a lighted reticle will give you all the accurate shooting you could want........We have very long twilight periods up here and in the timber it is fairly dark any way.................. Well that is my opinion....... Now for my question, What did you shoot the Cape Buffalo with that is posted on the African Hunter part of this web site... Nice Buffalo ! gumboot out..

go for the 26" and cut it down if you dont like it...its much harder to add than subtract

if you go with a 22" you might as well get a 358 norma (not a bad cart) or wait to wildcat the 375 ruger the soon to be inbetween cat.

or classy 35 newton in a smaller package.

but i dont think you will be happy unless you go sta...seems you have yer mind made up. 26"!

with the 300 h+h comming out brass will be easy to fireform

Since this is the hunting forum , this is fitting........Alaska being A HUMONGUS place ........ The biggest challenge up here for many of us is transportation...............It takes so much to get into and out of where you hunt.......... Plus , we have to salvage all the meat from ruminates and even some bears..................And remember animals are bigger the closer they are to the runway, boat or road.................................. Couple that with some of the consistantly worst weather on earth ,,,,,, And thats hunting in Alaska.... Its kind of funny,,if you look close at the faces of people in hunting magizines and loading manuals ........... Most of those in Alaska or the Yukon/NWT. Their expression is one of ,,,,,,,WHAT did I DO...... In places like Africa everyone is all smiles and howdy doody.,.......,..............,. But the weather is one of the biggest factors......

have you considered the 358-338 lapua? 358-338-378 weatherby magnum? (wow thats confusing)
think 270s @ 3000 fps!
http://www.weatherby.com/products/ammo.asp?prd_id=9

358 rum???

all of these are a simple neck up job + rebarrel

The 358,338/378 would relly scorch along and where it has a belt is easy to do ... The STA tho uses cheap brass..........{any thing long enuf,,,470 capstick- 7 stw..............Also for blastin the 200 gr .rem sptz c.l. is great and it,s called Alaskan.... What could be better...

i would prefer a 375 rum

gumboot458: I shot my buffalo at about 25 yards with my .458 Lott, along with all of my plains game, except the eland, which I shot with a .375 H&H. Ranges were as close as 15 yards on a bushbuck to 240 yards on a heartebeast.

The problem with the .404- or .378 Weatherby-based rounds is that you loose magazine capacity, and the brass gets a lot more pricey. Since I shoot my rifles quite a bit, cheap brass and bullets are a nice benefit for practicing.

I already have a Ruger No. 1S in .338 and have considered that round, as well as the .340 Weatherby, the .358 Norma, or the .375 H&H. This is one of those fun problems for which any of these four rounds will also work. Reality being what it is there is probably not much practical difference between all five of these rounds under most conditions.

loud-n-boomer ----- I have hunted with and shot a .340 Wby for years, taking many Elk, a huge Alaskan Yukon Moose and many Deer with it. I also shoot a .338 Lapua extensively taking Elk and Deer with it. I also shoot a .416 Rem and Rigby, using the Rem for Buffalo in Africa in the Selous. I have shot extensively the .375 H&H for three different buddies. None compare to the .358 STA for utility of use on game from Deer size up to the much larger stuff. Cheap brass from the 8mm mag to .375 makes for nice reloading. The speed that the case gets with the powder capacity is amazing, I have gotten 3250 plus fps from 225 grain bullets and 3000 plus on 270 grain bullets. The .358 diameter is where the chambering really shines, especially when compared to .375 and up calibers. The slim bullet compared to weight is useful and the selection from 185 grains up to 310 grains makes it extremely versital indeed. One of my barrels (Lilja) shoots all bullets 50 to 150 fps faster than the other, therefore I see both sides of an already many faceted round. Bottom line, try it, once you start reloading for it, the world is unlimited. I took it to Africa and took Kongoni, Zebra and Impala with it and my PH stated he would no be afraid to use it on the Buff, after seeing it perform. Good luck and good shooting.

loud-n-boomer ,,,,A nice little walkin around rifle is great . But for an all around rifle I totally agree with phurley5 ..........boomstick doesn,t like belts.........I prefer them.............when things are going wrong in a hurry that belt is a nice thing to have working for you.........With the 338 RUM I was a little disapointed that it didn,t go faster...........But with my factory Remington rifle I found max. book loads to be max........ The 358 STA is more efficent and faster which leads to flatter trajectory and less recoil,, Due to the different BC the trajectory will average out ............If you want to hunt brown bear up close use your 458 Lott......If you have to chase a wounded one DEFINATLY use your Lott...... But for every thing else above calling in cyotes or foxes or mayby wolves . use the STA............ gb out

I have a .358 STA with 26inch 1-14 twist shillen barrel on a rem m-700. With RL-19,Fed 215, and 225gr TSX it will shoot 3200fps!3/4 inch or less at 100yards..

When I built my STA I used a 28" Douglas sporter wt. barrel with the idea that I would cut it down to whatever length seemed best. That was 15+ yr. ago and it's still at 28", no brake. Sako action and a Brown Precision stock. Fits nice and recoil is not bad at all. I shoot Northfork 250's at 3075. It's a great setup. I haven't carried it in AK. but it's been 'where the rabbits don't go' in NE Sask. If I could only keep 1 rifle, this would be the one. Shoots from 125 JHP to 350 gr. custom bullets. Go for the STA and let 'er buck, Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 35404:
When I built my STA I used a 28" Douglas sporter wt. barrel with the idea that I would cut it down to whatever length seemed best. That was 15+ yr. ago and it's still at 28", no brake. Sako action and a Brown Precision stock. Fits nice and recoil is not bad at all. I shoot Northfork 250's at 3075. It's a great setup. I haven't carried it in AK. but it's been 'where the rabbits don't go' in NE Sask. If I could only keep 1 rifle, this would be the one. Shoots from 125 JHP to 350 gr. custom bullets. Go for the STA and let 'er buck, Mark

what are you getting for accuracy and velocity with pistol bullets???

What you guys are telling me about the .358 STA is why I considered it in the first place. It's nice to have my ideas confirmed by guys who have used the round.

I have an Montana MVA99 stainless action on order, and will be using one of Bill Shehane's Obeche laminate stocks.

I am going to order a Krieger barrels, but now need to decide whether to go with a 12 twist or a 14 twist barrel. I am inclined to go with the 14 twist. I understand that the slightly slower twist actually give better penetration. (Edited - Please don't bother with the question on twist, I am going with the 12 twist after-all.)

Dave

The last time I checked there were 15 pages in the thread {are you tired of hearing discussions about twist] I think it was.. on the big bore side................... Go with a 12 " . There is no way a slower twist can penetrate as well...RIP says it well "use enough bullet , and more than enough twist " Ideally the rifle should be capable of decisive kills at 400 + yrds , then always sneak up as close as you can ,like 10 feet and put a grapefruit size hole all the way thru them.. Along this line I may someday wildcat the 505 down to 458 just to see what a 300 gr X bullet at 3500 fps will do to a brown bear at 10 or 15 feet... But that is a different subject...... STA,s to the rescue.... gumboot out..

Actually, I had forgotten the food-fight on twists in the BB section, so ignore my question about twist. Let's talk about hunting.

Dave

The twist issue is settled for me, I am going with a 1 in 12 twist barrel.

358sta-any less than 24" and a man would be a fool!..but remeber that commin from a man that thinks 25" aint out of place on a 7x57.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
358sta-any less than 24" and a man would be a fool!..but remeber that commin from a man that thinks 25" aint out of place on a 7x57.

dude...you could take off 5" and only lose 20 or 25 fps...giterdone! sorry...just could not resist

I've already decided to go with a 26-inch barrel. I will put the front swivel out on a barrel band to keep the rifle lower when slung.

Dave

I,m going with the 24" and a cob lets compare velocities... Not for braggin rights but info...... Someone up here should have a recoil comparator.........Great Northern would be a good place to rent one... Just lily guilding tho... Have fun and get some polar tec... gumboot out....

Well, the MVA99 stainless action and the #4 contour Kreiger 410 stainless steel 1-12 twist barrel is ordered. Now for the waiting; both are supposed to be ready for shipment in about four months.

Dave

I'd go with a 26" barrel on a cartridge like that.

I am going to start at 26-inch, and if it seems too long, I can always shorten it.

Dave

Dave,
Is this going to be another Duane rifle? I'm envious as can be if so! Was looking at the pics of your Whelen today, as a matter of fact. Very nice.

Dave

Dave:

I wish that I could afford to have Duane build it. I may try to put this one together myself.

Dave