Big enough??

quote:

Originally posted by TMTAXIDERMY:
Big enough??

If you can accurately shoot it, 180g-200g .300WM RUM or WBY is plenty

With any of the good bullets like the TSX, Partition, Swift, Trophy bonded or North Fork it will work just fine.

I thought my .300 win mag would be plenty but here lately I have had several very strong recommendations to get me at least a .338. I am stretching the ol'budget plenty for the hunt and hate to buy a new gun for just one hunt and that I probably never use it again. The .300 has taken several moose and seems enough but I don't want to mess up my hunt by not having enough gun.

Ditto with 458

... Oh No ,,,,,, Here we go again .

Used a 300 on a russian bear.... it killed it but I was ashamed by using more than one round i wish i had used my 9.3x62 as it would have been much cleaner for both of us

Bullet Placement, Bullet Placement, How many times do I have to tell you?

I followed this thread when you cross posted it. Lots of people gave you advice to buy a bigger rifle.

If I were you, I'd see who 458Win was in real life. Following the link on his signature is a good start.

Then you'll know which of the responses are meaningful.

PS: I'm not trying to be Mr Smartypants, just pointing out that this board is filled with people who type well. Some of the guys who don't type so well spend 200 days in the woods every year.

300 is great, shoot it well, listen to the guide and you'll be fine.

300WM with a 200 grain well built bullet is fine if you shoot it well.

quote:

I followed this thread when you cross posted it. Lots of people gave you advice to buy a bigger rifle.

If I were you, I'd see who 458Win was in real life. Following the link on his signature is a good start.

Then you'll know which of the responses are meaningful.

Analog...I've never heard it put so eloquently!!!! Sometimes when I read a post, it conjures up the image of some Gomer sitting in the basement on an old PC, in a food-stained T-Shirt and boxer drawers, launching his "Pearls of Wisdom" for the rest of the planet to learn from !!!LOLOL

Originally posted by analog_peninsula

quote:

PS: I'm not trying to be Mr Smartypants, just pointing out that this board is filled with people who type well. Some of the guys who don't type so well spend 200 days in the woods every year.

Being one of those guys who "don't type so well" I'll consider this a complement in defence of guys like me who graduated high school early with a high GPA but still can't spell and now I'm paying over $8000.00 a year in property taxes, most of it going to the same school district that I graduated from.

Not smartypants at all.

Sorry since I got on this thread I should have commented on the topic at hand.

Yes by all means a .300 is fine.

I usally use a .338 but have used .375, .30-06 at least once and a 300 win mag.

Although I only remember haveing to back up a hunter once during those hunts when I carryed a .300 I have had many clients over the years take their bears with their .300's and they worked fine.

This is the bear I used the .300 on. It was one of those up close and in the thick brush deals as you can see by the brush behind me.

Gentlemen

Being said that a .300 will work fine for Brown Bears as long as the shooter does his/her part with proper bullet placement. How do you feel about push feed action on bears? Or is it writin in stone to use a crf? Just curious to other hunters opinions that have been there done that.

Thanks
Steve

Steve if you have a rifle that has funtioned reliably for awhile then I suspect that it will be fine on a hunt for bear.

My last 3 clients by chance all carried Remington 700 .375 ultra mags. I don't think there is a more fragile looking extracter than the 700's have but if they were breaking on a regular basis I don't think people would be buying them for any purpose. I do feel better with CRF though and all my bolt action rifles are Winchester,Mauser and Ruger.

Ok I dug through the archives and here's a picture for what it's worth of the bear I backed up with the 30-06. My goodness that was a long time ago. 28 years.

AKshooter

Time flies...

What is you're opinion of the crf action from Ruger compared to Winchester Model 70 in crf and accuracy also.
I was looking at buying a 338 Win Mag for Brown Bear however, the new Win won't be out for another three months or so with there new Model 70.

Thanks for sharing those pictures.

Steve

Steve

It's hard not to get caught up in the quality, design and romance of the history of the "Riflemans rifle" and I do love the model 70.

When you go to the American custom gunmakes guild show you will see beutifull custom rifles built on Mauser and M70 actions and then more Mauser and more M70's This will tell you what these guys think about them.

When it comes to buying a production made hunting rifle I'll quote a very good friend of mine who happens to be one of those guild members. " A model 70 is not a rifle it is a parts kit"

His comment refers mostly to the accuracy of the out of box M70. They don't typicly shoot MOA out of the box but allmost all will do better than that after a little tinkering (bedding).

I was scrambeling around for an M70 .300 win a few years ago thinking I needed to get one before they were all gone. I finaly got to a point where I coulden't find one for less than way two much so when a local store put the old MK2 Rugers on sale to make room for the Hawkeye's I bought a all weather .300 Win mag. It was so much better than my old first generation tang safty rugers that I really started liking it right away. When I took it to the range the first time I loaded up some 180's and 200's. Expecting not much I can never get good accuracy out of the box without ammo thats taylored to the gun.

Both loads shot under and inch and although the 180's shot better the 200 were plenty good for my purpose. I don't think I ever had a rifle do that out of the box for me before.

I've only hunted once with this Ruger (Kodiak)and I've only fired one shot at a game animal with it. But thats all it took even though my hunting partners agreed the shot was near the 300 yard mark. If you don't want to wait for the Winchester then I can't throw any rocks at the Ruger.

Woops I meant to post this photo of the deer I shot with the Ruger .300 Win since I've been on a roll latly posting Photos.

Thats a nice lookin deer Ak.!!!! Maybe I,ll be in Southeast long enough this coming summer to get an early season buck ..... I,ll either use a 223 , 416 Ruger , or a 50 cal wildcat that Michael 458 developed ............

That was a great place. There were raindeer there as well.
Megan shot both of these with her .300 win mag.
But as you can see the antlers fell off when she shot the caribou.

Opps -I mean the .300 hit it so hard it blew the antlers off. We'll get you over to the .300 belivers club one way or another.

ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THE 30-06 IS INADEQUATE HAS EITHER NOT TRIED ONE - OR IS UNWITTINGLY COMMENTING ON THEIR MARKSMANSHIP !!!


Here is a brown bear I had to follow up in really thick pucker brush. he charged from under twenty feet and as you can see a 30-06 with 220 Partitions is enough if the bullets are well placed

quote:

30-06 with 220 Partitions is enough if the bullets are well placed

Well placed is the key word. Phil we've both been through a bunch of bears but that one is a real hog,

What a bear.

If I didn't have two kids in college ...

Sigh.

Nice Bear Phil and I love that statement!


"ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THE 30-06 IS INADEQUATE HAS EITHER NOT TRIED ONE - OR IS UNWITTINGLY COMMENTING ON THEIR MARKSMANSHIP !!!"

I"ve only hunted Brown Bears once, on Kokiak with Lynn Caslte on Deadman Bay. Lynn guided me for part of the hunt, and he carried a 300 wby as a backup rifle. Max Schwab guided me for the latter part of the hunt, and he carried a 30-06. Neither of them felt they were undergunned. I was shooting a 338 win mag, and we had no problems at all.

It's all about shot placement with good quality bullets.

Or ,,could it be ....,,,,Maybe ,, perhaps . There is a 3rd possibility ........People have seen the 30 06 , and or other 30 caliber rifles not work worth a ---- on brown bear ..... .. How did that bear end up in the brush wounded in the first place .......I,ve got a pretty fair idea ....

Speculate all you want -- but if you want the facts the bear got into the bushes because the client did not want me to shoot until he had hit it four times - rear leg, guts, ass and high on back - with a bigger rifle that he obviously could not shoot well. After it got away in the pucker brush he decided it was then OK for me to go in alone and shoot it.

Jeeez Glen Do I have to use my 30 Gibbs for my bear on Kodiak to prove it can be done!

Originally posted by analog_peninsula

quote:

If I didn't have two kids in college

C'mon analog I remember this guy was putting his fourth one through collage but he still came and brought one of the four with him. Take the plunge and book that bear with Phil now before the price go's up.
Actully I don't know how you guys do it I have one in collage now and a lot of bears are going to have to die to pay for my girls liberal indoctrination.

I really thank all of you for the comments and advice. I think I will stay with the .300 win mag. I found some factory loads with 200 gr. noslers. I will honestly say that if most had recommended a bigger gun I would have found some way to do it. All your advice is greatly appreciated. Wish me luck for my upcoming spring hunt!!! Can't wait. Tony

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Speculate all you want -- but if you want the facts the bear got into the bushes because the client did not want me to shoot until he had hit it four times - rear leg, guts, ass and high on back - with a bigger rifle that he obviously could not shoot well. After it got away in the pucker brush he decided it was then OK for me to go in alone and shoot it.

Kinds makes your job pretty tough does it not? I'd be pretty happy to have a guide that got it stopped before it got in the brush if I was shooting that badly.

Lol! If I book another hunt before I pay my final taxidermy bill from Africa, my wife will kill me.

No, really, I'm not kidding.

In case no one else has mentioned it...if you're going on a guided hunt you should check with your guide to see what they recommend. I'm a resident, but years ago when trying to decide what to buy as my Alaskan rifle I looked at a lot of guide's web sites and they had minimums they accepted for clients. If you guide recommends a .338 or bigger, then I'd go with what he says since he's the one you're paying the big bucks to get you a bear.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Jeeez Glen Do I have to use my 30 Gibbs for my bear on Kodiak to prove it can be done!

.. I might kill one with my 223 this year just for fun .. Doesn,t make either caliber a good choice for brown bear .. I know nearly as many guys who have killed brown bear with the 270 win as I do those who use the 30 -06 .......
.If this was a perfect world ,probably something like a 357 mag. with 158 gr LFN hard cast @ 1300 fps would be the perfect brown bear sporting round .....This ain,t a perfect world ,and a 300 ain,t a perfect brown bear rifle ........ But it will poke a hole in them , and sooner or later they will die ...........
.
. People ask a redundant ? .Then the fued starts because of the need for redundant answers .....
.
. The amount of bears snoring the winter away with 30 cal bullets in them is probably 20 times the number doing the same with 375 cal and larger bullets in them ........Most of them will wake up in the spring and go about their business being bears ,,not realizing they should be dead because they were shot with some small rifle that should be easy for the wimps who shot them to shoot well .......AHH but the wimps couldn,t shoot anything worth a hoot , so they may as well have wounded them with a bigger caliber .... Either that ,or learn how to shoot well . Get some well placed confidence and place your shot where it needs to be .....If the original poster has a question of his rifle's ability ,That doesn,t sound like confidence to me ..........I,m totally confident I can kill a well posed bear with my 223 ........I,m just as confident I can kill any bear I am likely to run into in almost any situation I am likely to encounter with my 458 ........Thats the difference as I can shoot both equally as well ...

I have a mould for that 158 gr..357 but it's a keath style and has a gas check. I do have a recipie for some real good hard cast and a bunch of lead squirrled away.

Gumboot I really really do understand where your coming from and I won't say your wrong.
We just all have our own personal value judgment where the minimum effective range starts based on our own expiriances.

The way I like to look at it is like this. A brown bear is an animal that your not going to just knock off his feet with shear horse power from any hand held rifle.

I think of all the times I've shot a deer with a high velocity bullet (and as everyone hear knows I like one that will break up a little) and seen that mist of blood fly out the backside and have the deer drop DRT with the resounding hard flop of the bullet.

We know that will never happen with a lung shot on a brown bear. So now we've rendered ourselves down to being bow hunters with a rifle. We need to pick our shots more closely and kind of plan where that bullet is going and what damage it will do when it gets there.

This is the kind of animal that the big guns are made for and I won't begrudge anyone for making the choice to do so. My #1 bear hunting rifle is a .338 followed closley by a .375. I still want to give my .458 a go on a bear. It worked really well on the zebra and kudu I shot with it.

So where is that bottom line of power that can be considered reasonable for hunting a brown bear. Thats a personal choise the AK dept of fish and game has not really regulated that but for me it is something that will deliver the bullet to the vital area and deliver enough energy to do the damage it was sent there to do. The smaller the caliber the more precision the bullet needs to be placed.

Your comment about the .223 was a good one. A shot to the bear in the brain stem or ear or eye would probably do it. If not I would sugest changing rifles before following him into the brush.

AS a guide like I am and Waterrat and Phil we are only a guide when we are hunting, right up until the momment before the shot. Then we become a coach. I know for me it's putting the hunter into shooting position and continully whispering instrutions and encouragment for the shot. " Take a deep breath, make sure you have it on his shoulder, Squeeze the trigger, etc" I don't want to make it sound like most hunters are enept, most arn't, but when your not sure and they have a 30 cal you need to make sure everything go's perfect.

When your not sure and they have a .45 cal you need to make sure everything is perfect.

Ak. . Heres the thing . I have flipped bears upside down dead with 1 shoulder shot from a 458 . Anukpuk has done it with his 416 with a shoulder and lung shot . a friend who is a guide in Hoonah has up side down , feet in the air dead ,dumped more than one 9ft plus bears with a 416 Taylor , his boss has done the same with the 458 ..... I know from experience that the 30 calibers do not do that . And tho a 375 H&H will in Morris Tallifson,s words ( knock a bear down ) it doesn,t hold them down like a 416 or 458 , or bigger I suppose ..Andy Runyon loved his (Fast Forties ) . Ben Forbes his 450 Watts and 458 Win mag. ......Residents , guides and Master guides .All who advocate shall we say Real bear calibers .... Even Mr Shoemaker almost got nailed by a bear because in his words (sometimes accurate shooting isn,t able to be done during a bear charge ) .... Hunting dangerous game isn,t hunting cows .....
. I don,t write this stuff to argue with guides , tho that is what ends up happening most of the time . But rather so the non resident hunters might get a better understanding of the situations here ................
.If an elephant can reliably be killed with a 156 grain 6.5 mm bullet @ 2300 fps ,then it should be quite obvious that a 180-200 gr .308 bullet @ 2400 fps or better velocity will reliably kill a brown bear ... However alot of elephant hunters using 6.5 mm rifles have been killed by the elephant they shot .and alot of hunters useing 308 cal rifles have, if not been killed by , they have lost the bears they shot with their rifles .....................
. Another thing no one talks about is how long different guides let their bears bleed out before they go into the brush after them ....But that really isn,t part of this discussion ,and as long as they are prudent and don,t rush things it doesn,t matter .......
.
..
.The only reason I can see for not dumping an animal that a client is shooting full of holes but not killing is .
.
. A client should use a good bear cartridge ,and bullet , they should shoot very well and their gratuities should come from appreciation of a good hunt.. ,

So who factory loads heavier than 180 gr. in a 300 WSM? I'll be hunting Alaska moose with it in September. I think 180 is the heaviest I've seen. I wouldn't mind having a magazine full of 200s if I had a bear go crazy on me.

Kensco ----- Superior Ammo makes some of the best you could shoot. With a 200 grain North Fork you would be well healed. Good shooting.

Originall posted by Solvi on the European hunting page

http://forums.accuratereloadin...651006521#4651006521


This Bear was shoot by a farmer on his daily routine looking after his sheep’s, hi was carrying a ´222 and shoot the bear at 80. Meters and killed it in two shoots.
When asked if he was not taken by surprise seeing a bear he told the reporter;
Use your imagination.


Sorry I just could'nt help it with this one.