Gentlemen:

I'd like to build a custom rifle for Alaskan bear [interior and coastal] on an HVA small ring commercial mauser action. The rifle will be short, light and quick pointing [22" barrel]. What is the most bear killing power that I can reasonably fit into this small package? Given the limitation in action size and considering my desire for light weight and a short tube, should I just go with .30-06 and leave it at that? Candidly, I'd really like more gun than the '06. Can I stuff the .338 Win Mag into the little Husky? What about .358 Norma Mag? If I can't make a magnum fit and feed, am I better off with .338-06 than .30-06?

Any advise from experienced bear killers is appreciated.

Jordan

If it was me I build a real nice whelen. that ole 35 will drop a big bear with no problems.

9.3x62, with a 286 gn tsx...great bear medicine
daniel

You gotta love those HVA actions. Carved out of fine Swedish steel. Are you going to replace the trigger? I've had two HVAs and one had a great factory pull but the other was awful. The after market triggers for it don't lock down the bolt handle when the safty is on. A no no for a bear rifle I would think, as you don't want to have the bolt knocked out of battery accidentally just when Mr. Bear shows himself. Just my thoughts from a fellow HVA owner. On to the caliber. I would think the .35 Whelen would be best. With that much bore and the powder from a '06 case you might even go to a 20"/21" barrel without any real velocity loss. Now I've never been to Alaska or bear hunting. But I would agree you don't want to shoot a bear at long range as you might hit him far back and wound him. I would think a HVA with magazine full of Nosler 250 gr. Partitions will make a light and effective rifle for about anything. I would stick with Noslers as I wouldn't want any of the new bullets between me and a bear. Let the other guy experiment with those. What stock are you looking at for your rifle? FNMauser

SSK Industries has some rifles & ammo that would be satisfactory for big game.

The .35 Whelen would do what you want without any problems, especially with 250 grain bullets for the coastal bears. I led a friend to a big black bear this spring, and he dropped it at about 80 yards with a single shot from his Whelen with a 225 grain bullet (one of the various Barnes kind).

You might want to reconsider the "short, light and quick pointing" aspect, though. You sound like you'll be actively hunting, not just responding to the sudden, unexpected and unwanted, appearance of a bear at close quarters. Accurate shooting with a whippy little rifle is ttougher than with one a bit longer and steadier.

I would go with either the 35 Wehelen or the 9,3x62.
I have had great success with a 9,3x74R double rifle and 286 gr Woodleigh Softs and 286 gr Nosler Partitions.

If I were building on the HVA action, I'd have E.R.Shaw spin up a stainless 338-06.. and never look back.. Just my opinion. I have a S&W model B (Husky) in 30-06, have hunted elk, mulie, moose (Shiras) sucessfuly, but for the big bears I'd use the 338-06. That being said, I'm going to Alaska Sept for Dall and Grizz, and takeing a 338 win mag.. Les

another vote for the 9.3x62 with 286gr partitions at 2400fps.

I wonder if you could build a .375 Taylor? This wildcat uses a .338WM case, topped with .375 H&H bullets.

Now, that would be a thumper!

quote:

Originally posted by Les Staley:
If I were building on the HVA action, I'd have E.R.Shaw spin up a stainless 338-06.. and never look back.. Just my opinion. I have a S&W model B (Husky) in 30-06, have hunted elk, mulie, moose (Shiras) sucessfuly, but for the big bears I'd use the 338-06. That being said, I'm going to Alaska Sept for Dall and Grizz, and takeing a 338 win mag.. Les

Les,

The .338WM is an excellent choice, and very popular up here.

quote:

Originally posted by fnmauser:
You gotta love those HVA actions. Carved out of fine Swedish steel. Are you going to replace the trigger? I've had two HVAs and one had a great factory pull but the other was awful. The after market triggers for it don't lock down the bolt handle when the safty is on. A no no for a bear rifle I would think, as you don't want to have the bolt knocked out of battery accidentally just when Mr. Bear shows himself. Just my thoughts from a fellow HVA owner. On to the caliber. I would think the .35 Whelen would be best. With that much bore and the powder from a '06 case you might even go to a 20"/21" barrel without any real velocity loss. Now I've never been to Alaska or bear hunting. But I would agree you don't want to shoot a bear at long range as you might hit him far back and wound him. I would think a HVA with magazine full of Nosler 250 gr. Partitions will make a light and effective rifle for about anything. I would stick with Noslers as I wouldn't want any of the new bullets between me and a bear. Let the other guy experiment with those. What stock are you looking at for your rifle? FNMauser

Thanks everyone for the advise.

FNMauser:

For a stock, I was thinking of a classic wood stock with an open grip and schnabel fore end. I was going to cut it in half length-wise, hog out the excess wood in the interior and then lay it up on the inside with carbon fiber bi-directional cloth [with some kevlar and a thin veil of S-glass too!] in an epoxy matrix.
I have done this before. It is alot of work, but with care, you can get a wood stock down to about 20 oz. and stiff and strong as all heck. Basically, what you end up with is a thin wood veneer on the outside and a tough inner shell of carbon fiber/kevlar/S-glass in epoxy on the inside. You can also foam the inside for a little more stiffness if needed.

Do you have any suggestions on stocks? I like the original stock on an HVA 4100 Lightweight, except there is too much drop at the heel, IMHO.
Any suggestions on something that comes to the shoulder nicely with a quick sight picture and handles recoil as well? I am not even sure I want a scope. I might just go with a ghost ring set up. Seems to me that would be the ticket for grizz, but then again, I've never hunted one.

There aren't alof of fiberglass stock options out there for the HVA. A guy could modify a High Tech Specialties fiberglass or even a Brown Precision. McMillan is first class, but a little heavy and I am not sure I want to take a dremel tool to their new Edge lightweight stock.

If I go with the combination wood/carbon fiber, it will be hell for stout. I can oil it up good for water resistance or even use some spar varnish.

As far as the trigger. I am not sure. Timney makes a drop in, but it might be fun to keep the factory original and try and get the pull way down with some careful stoning. What are your thoughts?

I agree: the HVA small-rings are very desirable actions. I heard someone once say it would cost upwards of $1200.00 in modern machining methods and quality steel to make one of those today---and I was told that about 10 years ago!

Any advise is appreciated on this project is appreciated.


Jordan

I got a cheapo Bold trigger for mine. It was very easy to install and got the pull down to a PERFECT 1.5 pound pull with zero creep. For 30 bucks hard to beat. For a bear rifle thats going to be in the rough I would just work with the factory trigger in order to keep the bolt handle locked down while the safty is on. My factory pull is about 4.5 pounds and just a very very tiny bit of creep. Really a nice enough trigger for any big game rifle but I was doing my HVA in 25/06 so I wanted more of a varmint trigger. I love the sound of that stock! Put a very good recoil pad on it haha. The HVA actions have a one peice bolt. Even the Dakota's have the bolt handles braized on. Ugh. For what your wanting I would certainly try to get the factory trigger to suit. Then go the Timmney/Bold route if it wasn't to your tastes. Good luck on your project! FNMauser

I built a 338-06AI with a shortened neck about 15 years ago on an HVA with a Brown Precision stock.

The rifle worked out well ballistically, but it fed notchy (due to the shoulder diameter and the resulting bullet nose to feed ramp geometry).

The comb angle on the original stock is correct for iron sight usage. I would just rebarrel to 35 Whelen (or 338-06 or 9.3x62), seal the stock well and go with it. You can upgrade to a ghost ring, but unless you are used to using one, you are probably better off with a low powered variable or a 2.5x

Any synthetic inletted for a 98 pattern will fit an HVA with very little fiddling. The slim factory stock should be down to 25 oz by just drilling the butt and gouging a channel from the forend. I would add crossbolts if you use the factory walnut with 338/06 and up and lightne the rifle as well.

If it were me, I'd rebarrel with a 20" no.3 35 Whelen, restock with a Boyds laminate that was trimmed down and hollowed, sealed with thinned epoxy, and stick good sights on it. I'd keep the factory two stage trigger for it's reliability with dirt/rain/ice, and I'd ditch the side safety and replace it with something easier to get my thumb onto.

Jordan,

Swedish action requires Swedish calibre, so 9,3X62 (easiest since magazine etc. would fit with minor work) or 358 Norma mag. Let competent smith tune the factory trigger. Have the smith wrench a nice blue Krieger barrel on the action.

Isn't 35 whelen just rip off of the Swedish experimental calibre 9X63

Cheers
/JOHAN

375 dakota?

norma mag will be good but for bear i like a larger cal. but the largest bear recorded was killed with an 06

How 'bout a .338 Norma Mag? Yeah I know, it's a wildcat and why do it when it is so close to the .338 Win Mag. I just don't think I want a .35 caliber. My thought was since the Norma mag is supposed to feed in an HVA [and since we have to stay Swedish, right!] why not neck the .358 down to .338?

Any thoughts?


Jordan

Jordan,
358 Norma mag is not a wildcat but Norma ammo (C.I.P listed) can be hard to find in USA.

What is the current calibre, 3006? If so, the easiest to feed in your action, with a minimal amount of work, would be 9,3X62 (5 shots in the magazine). For bears I choose 286 grain or heavier bullets. 9,3X62 would also be a very suitable cartridge for hunting in Africa, Europe or any place elsewhere for that matter.

Cheers
/JOHAN

I have a .358 Norma mag on a Sako Action and love it. Killed one Grizzly and 2 Blacks with it. Used Wood Leigh Bullets and put all three in the dirt. 22 inch barrel is mighty short though.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
Jordan,
358 Norma mag is not a wildcat but Norma ammo (C.I.P listed) can be hard to find in USA.

What is the current calibre, 3006? If so, the easiest to feed in your action, with a minimal amount of work, would be 9,3X62 (5 shots in the magazine). For bears I choose 286 grain or heavier bullets. 9,3X62 would also be a very suitable cartridge for hunting in Africa, Europe or any place elsewhere for that matter.

Cheers
/JOHAN

Johan:

I was referring to a .338 Norma Mag. Is there such a factory round? My understanding is that there is a .300 and .358 Norma Mag only. I was thinking of splitting the difference with .338 caliber.


Jordan

Jordan,

no such thing, Norma got 308 Norma mag and 358. Norma experimented with 9,3 on 358 Norma case that most likely it won't be in production.

/JOHAN

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
Jordan,

no such thing, Norma got 308 Norma mag and 358. Norma experimented with 9,3 on 358 Norma case that most likely it won't be in production.

/JOHAN

Right, but I could always neck down the .358 to .338, have a reamer and dies made, etc. Any thoughts on the .308 Norma Mag in a 22" barrel?
I have this thing for short barrels, or is 22" too short to marry up with the .308 Norma Mag cartridge?

Thanks,


Jordan

Jordan, I thought the 308 Norma was around the same length as a 300 Win Mag, so don't know if the action would accomodate it but I could be wrong. The 338 has more bullet choices but the 358 Norma is about as close to a 375 H&H as you can get ballistically w/o the long action and those 358 bullets have a bit more frontal impact area then the 338. The more frontal impact area, the better off you are with a griz or brownie. The 35 Whelen has a good reputation up here for taking bears along with the 350 Rem Mag. The 338 is sure a popular round up here though. You can't go wrong with either but a 35 Whelen's knock down power is pretty close to a 338 WM without the recoil a 338 winny puts out. I've heard lots of folks complain the 338 WM kicks them more than a 375 H&H. Its' more of a kick, where the 375 is more like a shove. My experience also. No big deal though, you get used to that after the first few rounds and you darn sure won't feel it shooting a bear with all that adrenaline moving around.
choke

I'd use my 416 Rem nothing less for those big bears

I'd personally stick with a .473" head case, and would say either 35 whelen or 9.3X62. Just doesn't seem prudent to me to go with a belted mag case in a small ring action.

With a 270 gr North fork at 2300 from the whelen, there is no bear that can't be hanlded, and really a 250 gr TSX or NF @ 2500 will do the deed as well.

I don't know if the .358 STA will fit the action talked about, but if I had my choice and it did fit, that is certainly what it would be. I have taken the 270 grain North Fork to Alaska and Africa with excellent results. At 2850 fps it is some kind of awesome. With bonded core front and solid rear shank, it is there to stay with a perfect mushroom. I recovered one from a very large Kongoni Bull that had penetrated shoulder and neck bone and was under the offside hide and still had over 90% of it's original weight. Good shooting.