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Gumboot has made some good points. Although I will stand by my opposition to the mine I will say that I belive there should be some avenue industry can take for all resource extraction. I think I have an answer that will solve the whole thing. Since northern dynasty A Canadian LTD who bought the rights to pebble from Kaminco another Canadian company. Lets just say sure you guy's have at it By the way your mine will be displacing a few hunting guides. So as part of the deal they must provide hunting concessions ether in the Yukon or northern B.C. for the displaced guides. Lets see how the Canadians feel about U.S. guides taking there resources. That provision alone would kill the deal ( I'm baseing this on the opinions pontificated by Dewey over on the Canadian hunting board) and we could in turn blame the loss of our industry on the Canadians not allowing risprocity. Maybe we could sue them for that. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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Yeehaw, I was HOPING that some Yankee would bring my position on BC- "non-resident alien" hunting and foreign GOS operating here into this discussion! It's a bit DIFFERENT when "the shoe is on the other foot", eh? I might point out that Yankee firms are among those devastating "The Alberta Tar Sands" to avoid despoiling the pristine "Front Range" region of the U.S. portion of The Rocky Mountains. This brings HUGE profits to these Yankees. It is killing the "Athabaska River", fifth largest aquatic system on Earth and poisoning the people who live there. This is a FAR larger example of environmental devastation than the "Pebble Mine". The oil produced is sold to the Yankees at an artificially low price due to the NAFTA, which WE honour, unlike the Yankees on "softwood" and it is for their "energy security" as GWB oftimes informed we Canadians, the little fascist, warmongering baztard. Yankee "guides", such as the twice-convicted poacher, Bryan Martin, HAVE been taking our resources and THAT is a large part of the problem. Read HBC to see just how quickly the resident sentiment to ban this is growing and, like it or not, it WILL happen. SOOO. my patriotic, red, white and blue friends, I think that you SHOULD run this project as YOU choose and stop it, if you wish. HOWEVER, two minor points, the first is that WE need to shutdown the foreign use of Canadian raw reources AND, there will be NO Yankee "guides" here in western Canada....or, they will go home "Vietnam style". Have a nice day, chaps!!!!  | |||
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Perhaps I'm not the best informed to compare the impacts of the slope and the Peble area. But it doesn't take much of anything experience or otherwise to see the worlds largest toxic lake FOREVER up stream of the world's largest salmon fishery could potentially create some problems. Now am I missing something here? I'm not hardly a greenie/preservationist/anti developement person, but this just sounds really bad. Again have I missed something? Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Perhaps I'm not the best informed to compare the impacts of the slope and the Peble area. But it doesn't take much of anything experience or otherwise to see the worlds largest toxic lake FOREVER up stream of the world's largest salmon fishery could potentially create some problems. Now am I missing something here? I'm not hardly a greenie/preservationist/anti developement person, but this just sounds really bad. Again have I missed something? Brett Absolutely!!! You missed both the Pogo Mine and Ft. Knox operations. Ft. Knox - about 15 - 20 mi. NW of Fbks. and Pogo about 80 mi. east of Fbks. Both gold mines, both employing skilled workers and both succesful. I know, you never hear of the success stories but let a pint of oil hit the ground & the PRESERVATIONISTS are all over it like flies on poop. It's news all the way to the left coast. FYI, arsenic, used in the processing of gold, is found naturally in virtually all of the areas gold is found. People ought to see the hoops that Ft. Knox jumps thru to run an environmentally safe operation. To deny that there aren't risks is to be an ostrich with your head in the sand. To say that this operation can't be succesful both financially and environmentally is myopic. We Alaskans wait in anticipation every October for our portion of the pie from the North Slope oil development that could never be built nor run safely. How can they take the same stand on these projects? Now, I'm finished with this thread. Bear in Fairbanks Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes. I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have. Gun control means using two hands. | |||
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some random points about Pebbles. -Unless I'm very much mistaken, there will not be cyanide used in the met process, unless they are going to vat leach some of the pyrite concentrate on site. The scale and type of process and product will be more similar to Bingham Canyon in Utah, Duvall or Morenci in Arizona, or the Highland Valley in British Columbia. -Because of the above, it should not be compared to Summitville or other open outdoor cyanide leach pad processes. -The Environmental Impact assessments are pre-written by the people who pay for them, and the science to support them reverse engineered. -There is no way to model the long term environmental effects of mining of this scale because it has only happened in the last 50-60 years. Deep sea tailings disposal, which was embraced in the 70's is a good example of this. It is all a risk. -The world consumes 30-35 billion pounds of copper every year. If they don;t mine it at Pebbles, they will mine it elsewhere. Some areas are lower risks to mine than others. -Pebbles is probably not economic at the current metal and energy prices. -to say that Northern Dynasty and Anglo are 'foreign companies' coming to rape and pillage Alaska, is misleading, in that all resource companies are multi-national, including the ones that pump oil from the North Slope, and mine at Red Dog, Greens Creek, Ft Knox, and elsewhere in AK -lastly, as a third generation miner, an outdoorsman, and a father, I believe mining can and should be done responsibly and with little or zero risk, but it can't be done with little or zero risk everywhere. | |||
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Ft Knox and Red Dog are small compared to what is proposed at Pebble and neither sit at the head of the Largest remaining Salmon run in the World. Mines always promise to never pollute and almost without exception - when they have extracted the $$ they file bankruptcy and leave the mess for others to clean up. That is history and a proven fact. Pebble naturally promises to never have an accident - but an accident there will be on a catastrophic level for the state's salmon industry and all the surrounding jobs like guiding and hunting. I can not believe there are hunters and fishermen here who take such a short sighted view of our resources. As Alaskan's we all get a percentage of the oil revenue but how much of the gold and copper mined do we get? Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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458Win, would you support Pebbles if Alaskans got a share of copper/gold revenue, just like they do for North Slope oil? | |||
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Thanks Phil, I am also disappointed by the sportsmen that will put their own economic benefit over the good of a national resource. Guys - the gold and copper isn't going anywhere. Hopefully the technology will advance to the point where were can get the gold and copper without the undue risk to the environment. Until then we must not mine. http://takeaction.tu.org/c.ntJ...cacy/ActionItem.aspx http://www.sportsmansalliance4ak.org/ ddj The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back - Robert Ruark | |||
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Where is the Pebble Mine. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Originally posted by Bear in Fairbanks.
I agree with you ( I think ) I only have a few perameters, 1. Do it in an environmentally safe fashon that addresses the existing subsistance needs of the community, 2. Keep as much of the profit as local as possible. Pogo and Fort knox are good examples of something that works " employing skilled workers" but at pebble they have already gone beyond my perameters by the constant deafaning helocopters and hireing pilots from as far on the other side of the world as you can get. I would think any Alaskan pro pebble would want the same guidelines as I do. Alaskans pushing for development want jobs and profit from the resource. Why then would we be giving both away. One more point on this, 20 mi from fbks or even 80 is not the same as 150 miles from the nearest road. Dewey - My comments (about you)were intended as a form of recognition from one person concerned for the resourses of his home to another. My sinicle comment about trading guide areas for gold were facetious. If you remember it was I who on one of your threads recognized your position and in turn your comment about me was "finally someone gets it" Your right the shoe is on the other foot and I'm glad I supported your position then. I will stop short of comments like sending Northen dynisty home Vietnam style I'll leave the inappropriate comments to you. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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Dewey - My comments (about you)were intended as a form of recognition from one person concerned for the resourses of his home to another. My sinicle comment about trading guide areas for gold were facetious. If you remember it was I who on one of your threads recognized your position and in turn your comment about me was "finally someone gets it" Your right the shoe is on the other foot and I'm glad I supported your position then. I will stop short of comments like sending Northen dynisty home Vietnam style I'll leave the inappropriate comments to you.[/QUOTE] Hmmm, seems a bit odd that, if, you agreed with me so strongly, you would refer to my posts as ...pontificating...as you do here. That tended to make my retort a bit "crisp" shall we say, however, I was also being a tad "tongue in cheek". Frankly, ANY big project tends to worry me, but, "free-miner" has a good point here and, until we can recycle EVERYTHING we use, we have to mine, log, drill and fish somewhere........... Don't be upset, we are still friends and I would drink beer with you anytime. | |||
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It stuns me that there's even a remote chance that the Pebble Mine could be a reality. Alaska has long been victim to the "rape and pillage" mentality of outside interests. It started with fur in the Aleutians and has continued to this day. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Mine up and running. I have little to no faith in mankind these days, especially where money is concerned. | |||
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For disclosure purposes, the majority of my income is derived from the evil mining and to a lesser extent oil industries. Having said that, I'm strongly against Pebble as currently envisioned. (Ft Knox is excellent, and Kensington will be) Forever is a long time and, naturally occuring or not, chemicals leached from the now exposed rock by rainwater will harm fish. It is simply unfeasible to protect the massive amounts of waste rock (+99.9999% by volume)in even high concentration deposits from oxygen and water. The long established business model is for the mine operator to buy rights from the exploration outfit, work the most economic deposits while establishing a clean track record in order to lobby for low or no reclaimation bonding. After that, subsidiaries are formed, assets are separated from liabilities, appropriate campaign contributions are made to 'pro-jobs' candidates and scientific studies are funded, and gradually the undercapitalized secondary shell companies holding the reclaimation liabilities declare bankruptcy when the music stops. Do anything less and you'll be sued by your shareholders for failing your fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits within the bounds of the law. The fish, on the other hand, can support a smaller but steady economy for generations IF (Big IF, no guarentees here either as politicians are involved!) properly managed. Regarding outsiders wanting to run AK, I can resent that too, but understand the desire to have their cake and eat it too (live in a poluted city/state but restrict development elsewhere, do as I say, not as I do). I once met some nice ladies while hiking who promptly told me how all people should leave AK in order to give it back to the bears, as they were here first. I said it was a great idea, but since brown bears used to be native to their home state, we should go ahead and depopulate it too. Suddenly the idea wasn't quite as appealing. DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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granduc--75miles from ketchikan 10,000 people lived there around 1900 towns srewart b.c. hyder ak. been mining there since 1898 copper , gold,silver one tunnel 11 miles long, still has a freight train sealed inside, closed late 1980's or 90's employed 8oo people for 25 yrs or more that time, 1920's ran for 25 or 30 yrs 7 or 800 people, place was called the mountain of gold, im not going to try to give the history youll have to look it up this wasnt a small operation , let me guess you never heard of it, runs into portland canal between ktn and prince rupert. nobody ever bitched about it , why not, kennikot what 30 yrs dumping "toxins" into what the copper river of all places. i just cant buy all the gloom an doom from commercial fishermen, and i will agree w scott k , ak hunter and a bunch of others , good posts. it wont be pretty anymore If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tuff. | |||
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This has gotta be some kind of joke! I can assume both of you were so impressed with the funding that provides the education for the children in the village of Pilot Point or Togiak or Nondalton or Koliganek that you have enrolled your own children or grandchildren? I know the answer. To suggest that the economic benefit we seek is personal or selfish is unfounded. Move yourselves and your little ones to Pedro Bay and then after two or four years living there opposing Pebble. | |||
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Tell you what bothers me about all the negative publicity about Pebble and that is the ADN's had an article awhile back that links one single lodge owner to all these organizations that oppose the mine. Seems the owner just creates different organizations to oppose it and he funds everyone, to the tune of over $3 million to date. So until we see some unbiased opinions coming out I cant believe any of the negative comments. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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ddj[/QUOTE] This has gotta be some kind of joke! I can assume both of you were so impressed with the funding that provides the education for the children in the village of Pilot Point or Togiak or Nondalton or Koliganek that you have enrolled your own children or grandchildren? I know the answer. To suggest that the economic benefit we seek is personal or selfish is unfounded. Move yourselves and your little ones to Pedro Bay and then after two or four years living there opposing Pebble.[/QUOTE] Scott, We raised both of our children in the bush and anyone who claims that lack of funding is the problem of education in village Alaska does not understand most of the issues. Sort of like the folks promoting the benefits of Pebble and overlooking it's irreversible consequences. Money is not everyone's god. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Its the thought of your economic status being a higher priority than the rest of our coutdoor opportunities that should be questioned. This is a question that won't be left to just those in Dillingham or even Alaska. ddj The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back - Robert Ruark | |||
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So your comfortable raising and educating your children in a Bristol Bay village and school? I'll get back out my atlas and re examine the ,ongitude and latitude of Circle Hot Springs. | |||
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With out a doubt which is why you choose to not collect a profit from any of your proffessional ventures? | |||
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You make a comparison in value between my ability to provide for a family and your trout hunting hobby? Really! I'd just love to hear how you think a noth west Iowan will be able to exert a real influence on what the state of Alaska does with state of Alaska land. | |||
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Scott, It appears there are a lot of things you don't understand but are willing to speculate about and pass judgement on. May I suggest you read a little history of Mining reports of conservation organizations like Trout Unlimited and The Nature Conservancy as well as the mining side of things in Mining Weekly and Cynthia Carroll's ( she is the CEO of Anglo American ) report to the Resource Development Council in Anchorage. Get some solid background before passing judgement And if children's education is of importance to you serve on the local school board. Both my wife and I did for a few years. Or homeschool your own, which turned out to be our best option. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Ladies and Gentlemen: I'll jump into this mining issue, being from and currently residing in a mining state: Pennsylvania. We have some 200+ year old iron mines. Many are gone, like the biggest open pit iron mine east of the Mesabi, called Cornwall in Lebanon county. It flooded in the Hurricane Agnes flood in 1972, and is now a lake. Next, we have the old Grace mine, a Bethlehem steel jewel that is now a landfill with a really thick 6mm liner sheet under the landfill. Of course, if that liner ever breached you would be dumping some really neat stuff into the interlocking ancient iron mines running through lower Berks county. But don't worry that aquifir probably only feeds a few million wells that the farmers rely upon. Add to that, the mountains of slag from coal mining in Schuylkill, Lehigh, Carbon, etc. counties where only birch trees can grow because of the high acidity of the slag heaps. Take a little trip through the Lehigh tunnel on the northeast extension of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and look at the north face of Blue Mountain. Oops, sorry, that was a really messy zinc smelter, that ejected heavy metals over the upper reaches of the Lehigh river and the mountains into the 1980's. It looked like the moon until a few years ago. Lastly, the Schuylkill river used to be clear. Yup, nothing lived in it, because of the high acidity from the mine tailings up stream. It is recovering though, and we may have muskies again. Hey, I'm all for mining, but there are real downside costs involved. It depends upon how much you are willing to forego. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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Scott, I am not against capitalism or using our resources when it is responsible. I appreciate your concern about your finacial stability but the fincial gain for 100, 1,000 or 10,000 people can't outweigh the environmental impact this mine will have for the millions of people who want to take advantage and use it for natural beauty. There will come a day when extracting the gold and copper doesn't come at the price of ruining millions of wilderness. Until then, I will continue to voice my opinion and post sites that other can join in the fight. http://takeaction.tu.org/c.ntJ...cacy/ActionItem.aspx http://www.sportsmansalliance4ak.org/ ddj The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back - Robert Ruark | |||
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I gather you are a respected writer but have come to see here that your reading comprehention skills are poor. First in the above quote you claim I speculate, and yet all your condemnation of the Pebble Mine is nothing but speculation on your own part. Perhaps I have missed something. Does Pebble Mine actually exist? Is there a pit or shaft? Is there a poison pond? I think not. Your speculative condemnation is on a concept, an idea, for some just a hope,not even a plan. You follow with a plug for reports from Trout Unlimited? Now thats funny! Undoubtedly Trout Unlimited is full of nice folks but they certainly have no interest in any social or civic issues in any Bristol Bay village. I have no interest in anyting Trout Unlimited has to say regarding this issue any more than I would give PETA's opinion any credence as it applies to Alaskan predator control. "Get some solid background before passing judgement." Do you read what you write? Facts for all interested; Anglo American is exploring the mineral deposit and that is all. Predictions of gloom and doom and economic prosperity are being made with very murky crystal balls to be generous. As to your suggestion that I volunteer locally, wow! thanks! I never woulda thunk it! Again your less than "solid background" leaves your judgement a bit gee, I dunno,............................speculative? | |||
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Millions of people who want to take advantage of the natural beauty?! Holy Cow where are they? Now that is the best way to kill the development of Pebble Mine and I'd certainly prefer it! If the consumptive and non consumptive tourist industry could,....what would you say?.....Flood the market in the upper Nushagak drainage then I'd think there would be no chance for a mine. If that were to happen of course, the hunting and fishing would degrade much as it has in many other formerly pristine wildernesses. Compared to the Nushagak how is the fishing in Yosemite/ Yellowstone/ the Kenai River theses days? Everyone here familiar with "The Buffer Zone," so to speak built around Mt McKinley? Its not in the national park, yet to protect the park it is a limit on the use of land around the park! Huh? I suppose Yosemite looks a lot better in its current condition than Hetch Hetchy Valley does. Hey, good luck with the internet polls and petitions. Please be aware of their historical influence, i.e. wolf control. | |||
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Scott, MY comments are not speculation - and I can read. If YOU would take the time to read the reports and proposed plans you would know that the Pebble project as proposed will be a large open pit and deep shaft mine using cyanide leeching and the pit will require there dams, each larger than the Three gorges dam in China! That is not speculation but is in the official Pebble proposal!! Rather than throw stones we should all be having an adult discussion and actually listening to and responding to the issues on each other's position. Everyone here knows how I make my living and why I have a vested interest in preserving our Fish and Game. In the interest of full disclosure, how do you make a living? Do you work for the Pebble project? Do you run a business in Dillingham? Or how do you hope to profit from a huge local mine? And why do you think the possible short term monetary gains justify the possible long term, irrevocable risks? Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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benefit the few? unless you have a six figure income, you will never hunt or fish this area. If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tuff. | |||
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Scott, I believe there are millions of people who at some time would love to see/visit/fish/hunt the upper Nushagak drainage. Don't be so short sighted that all these people would visit in the next year but over decades. The wilderness needs to be something worth visiting not just a barren hole in the earth. For someone who has used the environmental resources you are nonchalant about loosing the resource. I hope we all put our environmental resources over monitary gain. Also, this might be conjecture, but the last time I was living in Alaska, there were rumors of a road being built across the Susitna down to the Iliamna country for the pebble mine. Has anyone heard of this?? ddj The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back - Robert Ruark | |||
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trouthunterdj and 458win, both of you have referenced the use of cyanide leaching at Pebbles. Can either of you kindly direct me to the source of that info? Thanks | |||
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I am a general contractor with no affiliation at this time with anything Pebble. Almost all of my work is within Dillingham city limits and is on a peanut scale. No matter what configuration Pebble is ever developed in, (if developed,) odds are good I wouldn't work there. Not to say I wouldn't at least consider it, but at this time my biggest piece of construction equipment is a skil saw.  Additionally, I have served a term on the Dillingham City Council and currently serve the community as a volunteer firefighter. I guess I could itemize the calls I've been on recently but I think it'd be no matter. I'm waiting for breakfast to finish cooking, (full disclosure,) so I went back and read my older posts in this thread regarding Pebble. I didn't see anything that I wrote that led anyone to believe I am a proponent of the mine. Anybody see something different? The issue as I see it is that the Bristol Bay residents have a choice to make between development and all the drawbacks that come with it or isolation and stagnation and all the drawbacks contained therein. I can easily discount most if not all the opinions of those outside interest both for and against the mine because because at the end of the day it just won't matter to them. If Anglo American is stopped they'll just be out a few bucks and go dig somewhere else. If AKSHOOTER or 458 finds an open pit mine in the middle of their hunting areas, they too can or will just go somewhere else. Circle Hot Springs Alaska or North West Iowa is a long way from Iliamna. On the other hand, myself and the residents of New Stuyahok are the ones downstream from the proposed mine. Trouthunters well water isn't part of the same water table Pebble could influence, mine is. | |||
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I'm quite certain you don't practice what you preach since we are cooresponding over the internet. I'm sorry to say I've never been to Iowa but I have been led to understand its pretty developed. I am a general contractor and am not affiliated with anything Pebble. Additionally I volunteer heavily in my community. When both of those jobs are taken care of I hunt and fish, reports filed and graciously hosted on this forum. I went back and looked at my previous posts on this thread and saw nothing that I thought promoted Pebble. Odd that the insinuation is that I am somehow shilling for them. Anybody see something I didn't? Its easy for most Bristol Bay residents to discount the opinions on this issue of the residents of Circle Hot Springs and North West Iowa, or even the mailing address of the Anglo American folks. The ground water at your home isn't affected, the health of your community isn't at stake. If a mine appeared in their hunting area 458 and AKSHOOTER can or could guide somewhere else. When their work season is over they'll still sit on their sofa with their feet on their coffee table far far away from Pebble. Anglo American would just go dig a hole somewhere else if stopped. Most likely in a dramatically different time zone. Even as I write that I almost laugh thinking that Bristol Bay residents really have a say in the issue! The future of Pebble mine I think we all can agree will be decided in the board room and maybe the halls of congress in Juneau. The state of Alaska legislators really being concerned with Scott in Dillingham's opinion is outlandish. | |||
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Scott, If you aren't promoting Pebble, you sure aren't defending the fish and game resource of your part of Alaska. If there was a threat to my area such as this I hope I would make better decisions! For some how uses the land and seems to enjoy it, you are quick to loose it. Do want this to be your legacy?? Phil, I appreciate your writing and maybe a article on the threat of the Pebble mine ine Sucessful Hunter might be a way to make a difference. Thanks!! ddj The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back - Robert Ruark | |||
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My appologies for the sort of double posts. My local internet service provider is un believably broke and incompetent so more times than not when I respond to 458 or trout the computer displays the "Internet Explorer Cannot,....." and I assume I have not gotten thru. I know, no loss! I make a vain effort at re composing and here we are. Believe me, I am fully aware of the lack of value in my printed word. | |||
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I hope my legacy is a man that stood up for and supported his neighbors. I'd be ashamed to be known for a legacy of defending caribou breeding grounds at the expense of his communities well being. | |||
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My, my, my. This Pebble Mine thread is turnin' into a real pissin' contest, now ain't it? I know, I know, I wrote that I wouldn't comment again but in this case, I couldn't resist.  Bear in Fairbanks Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes. I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have. Gun control means using two hands. | |||
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Just to give folks an idea of proposed mine:  I think you'll find that many folks that are opposed to pebble are pro mining and pro development. It's just in the case of pebble, the downsides outweigh the upsides. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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there, fixed it for ya (sorry couldn;t resist) 
I generally agree. The key to environmentally responsible mining is not in hiring boutique engineering firms to conjur up favorable studies, the key to environmentally responsible mining is to knowing when the type and scale of operations is unsuitable to the location in the first place. | |||
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If, we had more of this level of responsible, professional and level-headed thinking in ALL aspects of resource development and conservation throughout North America, we would ALL be much better off. | |||
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