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Hey all. I have booked Dad and Myself into a hunt with Baranoff expeditions for Spring 2009. Here is my first of many questions if you dont mind. I am planning on takeing my 300 RUM with me. I dont mind getting some custome shells done up, can you all recomend a fantastic bullet and wieght? Right now I can buy off the shelf 200 Grain A Frame also 180 Grain Swift Sciroccos I am also wondering if the 300RUM is on the light side. But I do shoot this gun rather well and I am more than comfortable with it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Calgary Guy | ||
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If you dont reload it would be hard to better the 200 a frames. A 300 mag of any flavor might be considered on the light side. But adequate. If you do need an excuse to buy a bigger rifle look at .375 up. I think a 300 rum that you are familiar with would do well. Your guide will likely have a bigger rifle if it is needed. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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This Kodiak bear was killed with a 300 RUM:  | |||
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.......I don,t understand why people ask this Question ................Why not just bring a 243 ,, If the guide is going to have to kill the bear ...............I hate to be rude but it seems stupid to spend so much for a chance to hunt a world class animal and ask permission to use a deer rifle to do it with ...............Would any one do that with an Elephant or Cape Buffalo .. rhino or a Guar or Tiger ........  .......Get a 375 RUM ...shoot 270 grain TSX bullets and you got er made ....With a little practice you will be able to shoot it just as well ......It really is a good bear round .....If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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This is just as important as cartridge selection, now just pick a good tough bullet. Look at bullets with a sectional density of .300 or greater - 200 grain .30 cal bullets will get you over that mark. If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while. | |||
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Your .300 RUM will work fine. Big bears are much harder to kill than anything else in N.A. but let this remind you to make your shot /s a good one and stick with the 200 gr. bullets DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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What does your outfitter say about it? | |||
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Mike. James reply to that question was. "We recomend whatever cartridge over a 30 caliber that you are the most comfortable shooting for your rifle." Well that certainly describes my 300 RUM. Now I just need to get some shells loaded for it. Jamie | |||
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............If thats what they said I would say that rulled out your 300 ,.,., 8 mm is the next , albeit not much of a step up .....They are probably hopeing you will bring a 338 ....... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Gumboot.. Perhaps you are right. I might have been reading it wrong. Looks like another conversation is needed. Jamie | |||
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............Calgary ,,,,,Since you are a RUM a dumm dumm ...Like all us Remington Ultra Mag Fans...I want to cast a big vote for the 338 RUM with factory 250 gr Swift A Frame bullets ......Mine , just a 7 lb , naked , factory 338RUM w/26" barrel Stainless Synthetic was a very impressive rifle ...  ..The factory load did 2905 and only had 20 fps variation ..It was very accurate and while not being a powder puff . It wasn,t hard to enjoy shooting it 30 rounds per trip to the range .....And that with 275 gr Kodiak Bonded Core bullets @ 2800 fps .. I actually got them up to 2900 but backed down .......I,m thinking seriously about doing a switch barrel with my 458 Lott and a 338 RUM barrel .....My gunsmith has done several switch barrel rifles and they are hand screw changeable ..  ......The 338 RUM hits about as hard as the 375 H&H 270 gr load . but shoots flatter ......Thing is , the 300 is just as bothersome to shoot ...........I had a big sow with 2 big ,400 lb , cubs heading my way one time when armed with my RUM I had the 275 gr KBC load in the rifle and had not a qualm 1 about if I needed to dump them And she was well over 8 ft sq. close to 9 ' .  ....Only qualm I had was the guy I was with narkin on me if I needed to .but also gettin him out of there,,,,, as he would not ,understand those bears were coming our way , they knew we were there and , that we were going to have an up close and personal with them if we didn,t get with the program ........He,s one of those dummies  who think man has nothing to fear that it,s all just a game ,,, I,de like to drop him off at the muddy river as soon as the road is open and have him walk out to the beach with nothing but a 50 lbs of bear mace and a walking stick ..........He would get an education ..  ....A 300 RUM is a GREAT long range rifle ,,, but it aint a bear gun .......If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Why dont you just ask your guide what he thinks of your 300 rum 200 a frames since you are already familiar with this rifle. Like I said if I was to go bigger than a 300 rum I would get a 375 h-h or 375 ruger. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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I took my 91/2 footer near Cold Bay with a .300 Winny and 200 grain Nosler Partitions, a one shot kill straight into the heart of the standing Bear. That hunt and a close encounter with three other Bears convinced me something bigger was better. I have since hunted in Big Bear country with a .340 Wby and .358 STA, and shot them until I could use them instinctively. If I go back up there now it would be with 270 grain North Forks (I stocked up while I could) in my STA. If you cannot use the larger chamberings enough to become instinctive in their use, take the .300 Rum and use 220 grain Nosler Partitions, or either of these, 200 grain Swift A-Frame-Trophy bonded Bear Claw-Barnes TSX and don't worry about it. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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phurley5, I am curious why you felt you needed a bigger caliber when you had a one shot kill? I've yet to hunt brown bear, but it is definatlely on my to do list. Unfortunately the list is getting bigger than my checkbook.  Thanks, KC | |||
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Yes, the 300 RUM will get get the job done BUT IS IT THE BEST CHOICE? A thousand times NO. If you must use it use the 200 grain Swift bullets. If you gun up to the 375 use the 270 grain Swifts. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Thanks guys, I appreciate all the ideas. It seems the general consensus is that the 300 RUM is a marginal choice. But what’s better a unfamiliar gun or one that is familiar to the shooter. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to a range that would allow me to shoot a great deal before hand. The $$$ is not really a concern, because I could just sell off what ever I buy when I get back. Hmmm.. You guys have given me a lot to think about. Once again.. Thank you | |||
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What kind of rifle do you have,,If it,s a model 700 Remington then a 338 -375 are identical .....They are an easy step up and if you can operate one you can operate the other ........I don,t know if you are familiar with where you will be hunting , but your shot may come at a very close range ..................You don,t need a great big scope ,,something small with an illuminated reticle ,, preferably a dot .......Big bears are big targets and a red dot helps focus your attention on one part of the bear ,,the important part ........ .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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i have taken all my bears with 375. in fact my old guide always had 2 375's, one for him, and in case the client didn't bring a 375 - one for the client. I watch a guy shoot a griz in the artic with a 3006 one day. shot him 9 times and lost him. sure some of the hits weren't so good, but some were. Yest one shot in the right place is enough with anything, but just what if that shot isn't in the right spot. I know a cannon in the ass judgement, but it has been my experience that bigger is better. For example, one brownie I shot quartering away. the bullet went in through the hip, all the way through the body, destroying the lungs and aorta, and ended up in the far shoulder. The bear still ran a good 200 yards. a doubt that anything much less than a 375 would have done it as well | |||
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KC Carlin ----- There were three Bear Tags in our group of four. The guide was tagged, another hunter and myself were tagged. My brother-in-law was simply a backup gun. We spotted the Bear I shot at 1/2 mile and it spotted us. We made a stalk by crawling up a Salmon stream and all was hunky dory when I made my shot at 90 yards into the heart of the standing Bear. It fell at the shot and then all hell broke loose when three additional Bears stood within 20 to 50 yards of us. These new Bears were feeding in nearby Salmon streams completely unaware of us and we them. The guide said G-- D--- shoot Bears. I kept focused on my Bear which as it turned out it never moved another muscle, all others shot two additional Bears and the fourth left with gusto tossing sod that would weigh several pounds in the air behind it twenty feet into the air. The roaring, hollaring, cussing, shooting that took place over a twenty second period was unlike anything I had witnessed then or since. One Bear took 4 shots the other 5 shots from another .300 and a .375 H&H. I had made a one shot kill with my .300 Winny but felt extremely undergunned (it felt like I had a pee shooter in my hands) during the aftermath that followed and I swore I would have more gun the next trip into Big Bear country. I also learned that perfectly planned shots and angles at the Big Bears is not always possible when the nut cutting time comes and theories about those shots are just that. You have to take the shot that presents itself, not the one the book talks about in the best of situations. A good and cool young guide saved the day for us, what if he was not good and cool. You have to be able to do your part regardless of the deal coming down. ----- That is the reason I now pack the larger gun into Big Bear country from now on. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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phurley5, Well that is a hell of a good reason to bring a bigger gun! Sounds like a great adventure, Im glad everyone came out unscathed. | |||
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If you ask Phil Shoemaker what caliber he recommends for Brown Bear, he will tell you a 30-06 up...He has shot more Brown Bear than everyone on this board combined is my guess..An 06 with 180 to 220 gr. premium bullets is plenty for bear, so the 300 RUM should be excellent, and it ain't no deer rifle.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Good post Ray. I was starting to think the concesus on this thread is that a howitzer was getting to be too light for bear. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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There is no doubt that with good bullet placement the 180-200gr 30 cal magnums are good enough for bear. Especially the interior bears that I would normally come into contact with. that said I would feel better with a bigger rifle as a dedicated bear gun. I've passed up two bears in the last few years that I would have probably shot with a bigger gun. Both times I had my 300 win mag with 180gr partitions. The first one was a really nice boar that I found while glassing for moose. After a long stalk I got to within 200-225 yards but never got the angle I wanted. he was always angling towards me and I didn't want to risk not making it thru that shoulder. There was steep thick cover on either side and I didn't relish the thought of going after a bear in that stuff. I might have taken that shot with a 338 RUM, 9.3x62, 375 H&H, or even my 458 Lott. Bigger heavier bullets to break down those shoulders and let the air out of the lungs. The second one was really big interior bear that I saw along a river at low light. this time I had a encore in 22-250 with me. Definately too light for a bear, works good for those salmon munching coyotes, fox, and wolves though. I do know several people that have killed brownies with 270-300 win mag. Worked well for them. | |||
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Hey Ray: This Phil guy, that the one you sell hunts for? The one "that lives year-round in the Alaskan "bush" with his family?" Yea, I'm gonna believe that. Where in the Alaska "bush" is he right now? I thought he carried a 458Win, when he was guiding his dudes? Does he recommend a 30-06 for Alaska bear hunting? | |||
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TJ, Phil Shoemaker posts as 458Win. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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.........................Ya ,,,ya get to shoot lots of bears when you have your clients bring an 06 ........What good thinking ... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Ray, Two guys stopped by our Deer camp this last November to BS for a while, and both were hunting with 300RUM's. I about fell over when they told me what they were shooting.. Speak about overkill..... Don | |||
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TJ, I think Phil lives in Circle Hot Springs or something like that and seems to be a very well respected opinion on bear hunting. A search of the forums will ofcourse produce volumes of info. I replied to your post with a quote so when you woke up this morning with your massive hangover and realized you made yourself look like a horses ass yesterday you couldn't delete it. | |||
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My brother-in-law lived and taught school in Alaska for two years in King Cove Alaska, near Cold Bay. While I don't have extensive experience hunting Brown Bears, he befriended a Bear Guide and hunted with him. After returning home the Guide, with his wife and baby, came to Kentucky and hunted with us for 6 weeks. He insisted that I come up and hunt Bear and Caribou. Several people from home had hunted there, mainly other teachers and friends from home. I related my experience previously in this forum. I will relate other experiences briefly here. ----- My brother-in-law while hunting with the same guide was charged by a 91/2 Brown that had been shot in the foot days before and was very pissed, two shots in the head at 40 yards with a 30-06 using 220 grain Silvertips, stopped at 15 steps, still mouthing his despleasure but anchored. ----- A buddy shot a 8 footer at 200 yards three times with a 7mm Rem, bullet unknown. Still coming at 60 yards, three shots with a .41 mag pistol, none of the pistol shots penetrated past the hide and fat, stopped at 7 steps, still reaching for the shooter. ----- A buddy shoots a 11 footer twice with a .270 Winchester, anchors it where it stood. ----- A buddy anchors a 7.5 footer at 100 yards with a .300 Winny, bullet unknown. ----- A buddy (native Aleut) died while alone armed with a 30-06. He killed the Bear with the one shot fired, but the Bear also killed him. No one knows what transpired. He bragged that the 30-06 was enough gun, hunted mostly with .222 and .270 Win, considered the 30-06 big. ----- I also heard tales up there of guides who stumbled and fell at crunch time. We hunted one morning and at noon the guide discovered his firing pin in his pocket, after cleaning the rifle the night before, he was very good and very cool, and was mad as hell at his own stupidity, but it happened, I still think about that today. ----- You may draw your own conclusions from these experiences. When I go into Brown Bear country I will have my .358 STA or .416 Rem, if I am still comfortable in their use, otherwise I will consider hunting up there history. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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I have been following the various threads on suitable Grizzly and Brown Bear rifle calibres with interest - one of life's ambitions etc. I only have a .338-06, which I am allowed soft points for. I also have a .375H&H Mag, but am not allowed soft points for it by the British Police. H, Hum... Anyway, I think, based upon what I have read, that my .338-06, 225 grain at 2600 fps muzzle velocity, is marginal for a Grizzly Bear. I cannot remember the source, but the suggestion was grizzly bears needed a minimum of 200 grains, and 2500 ftlbs at 200 yards. Hence the 200/2500 'rule'. Now, looking through various literature, not many cartridges are capable of delivering a 200 grain plus bullet at 200 yards with over 2500 ftlbs. I rather like the standard length actions: .338 Win, .358 Norma and 9.3x64 over the 'magnum' long lengths: .338RUM, .338Weath.,.358STA and .375H&H. They are a tad quicker / easier to cycle and less likely to short stroke etc. Additionally, I prefer non belted cases. I think these will feed better. I was wondering, now that there is a supply of new Jamieson brass, maybe the .350 Newton with 265 or 275 grain Hawk bullets would make a good flat shooting Grizzly Bear rifle? Maybe, it would be possible to load down and make a deer / wild boar rifle? . If so, then maybe the UK police would let me have expanding ammo for it!  From what I have read, the .338Win Mag with 250 grain bullets is the bench mark. It is the one generally recommended by guides, authors etc. However, I wonder how much of that is due to logistical problems up in Alaska? If I was based in Alaska, I think I would use the .358 Norma Magnum. I would feed it 250 and 270/275 grain bullets for the big / tough stuff but use 225 grain bullets on deer. Within reason, if you are keen, you will find a way to obtain components and reload ammunition for your non standard, shop rack rifle. The .358 Norma Mag has: similar power levels to the .375H&H, shoots flatter (if needed), has similar heavy weight bullets with good sectional density and 'toughness' to the .338 & .375 magnums and makes a bigger hole than the .338 & .300 magnums. Additionally, having fired an 'original' Schultz & Larsen .358 Norma Magnum, I found the recoil much less than my .375 H&H. So, whats not to like? | |||
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Folks can choose to listen to the "expert' of their choice and are free to use whatever caliber they want. The 30-06 was the most popular guides rifle for nearly fifty years and worked just fine for the man who could shoot.I have used mine to kill quite a few large Brown bears and still say that anyone who claims it is ineffective has either not used one - or is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship. I still carry one much of the time. I do use a 458 Win - and have for the past twenty five years - when guiding Brown Bear hunters as my shooting consists in cleaning up messes made by folks who could not competently use the big magnum they were using. Choose a rifle you can shoot well, choose a good bullet and practice with it. And for what it is worth "living year around in the bush" does not mean never going any place. I just spent the last two weeks at the SCI and SHOT shows and am currently visiting clients for two weeks before heading back to Alaska. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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agree. funny to hear what is the "best" or who said this is the "minimum" or this is the "equal to the .375 HH" etc. etc...... Phil, you know and I know thus far that the .30-06 is still a favorite with those that shoot it well. Lots of people around here use it with confidence and lots of big grizzlies have fallen to the "lowly" .30-06 Stories be told. You can kill a bear with a .22 or a .458 and many have survived and some of the few handfuls have not-why? Was it an inferior bullet or poor placement under pressure or.....just a bum hunter/shooter? I have to sit on the same branch as Phil and say whatever you choose to use make certain your bullet selection is in accordance with the type of animal you will hunt. Do alot of shooting and know your animal you plan on to hunt....even though you are counting on a guide as your backup. I kill grizzlies often enough and choose to use a .30 caliber minimum with at least a bullet weight of 180grains on up or go to the .33's or the .375's or.........depends on where I hunt. I practice alot and am familiar with what I am hunting and I know who I am. Makes a big difference. My confidence with a .270 was fantastic and have had 5 of them at one time-a wonderful caliber! As I go further into grizz country the rifle became smaller-the bears bigger and many. Now I don't own a one. I say use the wind, walk softly and place your shot but always be alert and determined. | |||
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...............................................................................................Phurley5 I very much appreciate you posting this because I have seen this kind or experience to be the NORM . with people ..................Apparantly Phil,s clients can only ,[not shoot] things with the word [Magnum ] attached to them ......................Apparently all the animals taken at his guide camps with the 06 ect were 1 shot kills .....[[[[YA RIGHT ]]] ...It would seem ,according to Ak Shooter , Ray , Phil ...That if you are a hunting client you must be too incompetent ,to be able to shoot a 338-375 ..or even larger ........But I really don,t understand why their cut off point is the, snot 6 ,,The 270 win with 150 gr bullets kills bears just as fast as the 30-06 does in my experience ...There isn,t much difference between the 150 gr .277 bullet and the 180 gr 30 cal bullet .........According to the Swedish government , the 6.5x55 kills moose as fast as the 06 does so why not use that as a sensible minimum .............. My neighbor has killed a couple brown bears with the 243 win ,,,, all 1 shot kills . that doesn,t make the 243 a good bear round ....................................................The fact is that the rifle cartridges 338 and above produceing 3500 ft lbs and above usually have a much more noticeable effect on a bear than the 30 calibers do .....................A pretty good rule is if the pic you see of a dead brown bear is in the thick brush , that is where the bear ran to after usually being hit by a 30 caliber ect rifle .....If the bear pic is out in the open , like the pic Mike Detorre posted of that Monster , it was STOPPED by a larger caliber than the 30 .................Either that or they were by and large very patient or lucky .................The reason many Alaska guides used the 06 was it was a military round that was available and many men were familiar with it from the wars .....It,s very interesting that most of them moved up to larger calibers when they could ,,and , needed to ....As in the case of Phil almost getting it from a bear when he was guideing with the 06 ,.,. I still have the article where he explains why , and how ,,,he built his 458 .................But apparantly only guides can shoot large caliber rifles well and everyone else can,t ..  .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Now I dont know if the above statement is true, but useing that formula. This is for the 300RUM Premier® A-Frame - Power Level III 200 AF PSP 3032 2791 2562 2345 2138 1942 (the above starts at muzzle and goes up by 100 yards) HMMMM. | |||
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I keep reading all the accounts here of one hunter or another haveing one failier with a .30 cal rifle on his or some close frinds bear hunt The automatic responce seams to be oh that wouldn't have happend if I had a .375 or whatever. Most of the time a really big bear needs more than one round to anchor. The really big guys just have a tenacity that your not goin to bowl over no matter how hard you hit him. The main thing is to put a bullet in a good spot and let the process of dieing begin all the while you want to fallow up with as much lead as possible. Yes I have seen many bears soak up a couple of magaine loads full of .30 cal bullets. Don't think this dosn't happen with a big bore rifle as well. This past fall of the three brown bear hunters I personally guided the two hunters who had .375 RUM's both reloaded there rifles and put more rounds in the bears and the one who was shooting a .416 REM emptyed his rifle. This was not a failier of the rifles or loads it was a case of good shooting on the part of the hunters. I'm sure many of you will think that this will account for the need for really big powerfull rifles for a brown bear. My expiriance has been that although a bear will expire slowley and soak up some lead in the proces it dosn't really mater what you do it with as long as it has reasonable energy. I do belive that a .30 cal rifle should be considered minimum and I do lean towards the magnums but of all the bears I've seen dispatched over the years I can't say that one of any of the big magnums have faild to do the job when the hunter has done his part. Try this on for size. If a .300 mag or even a 30-06 is'nt enough gun for a 900 pound brown bear then their is'nt a rifle made big enought for a 10,000 pound elephant. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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It says alot for the 1st shot, 2nd shot the beast is being motivated by his own accord or his adrenal glands. CNS on the first shot or........lay into him until he drops. Bigger don't mean better. | |||
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If you use premium bullets and shoot through both shoulders chances are very good he is going nowhere. Thats my train of thought anyway. When and if I get a chance at a brownie this spring you can bet i'll be shooting for the shoulders. You take out his wheels and he has no place to go but down. "We band of 45-70'ers" | |||
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Gumboot, Now your just sticking your foot in your mouth. Er rather BOOT. Your post sounds about ignorant. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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How about that guy two seasons ago that got chewed up after hitting the bear twice with a 416 rem. Should we rule out the 416 too. That was down in your neck of the woods. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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