quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Looking at this from a APH POV there's a ton of variables at best. Anything from the 270 up will kill a bear with perfect shot placement but trophy hunting is a whole different story. Idealy your bruin will be in the open and broadside at 50yds but that is rarely the case.
In my experience most shots go bad by a hunter trying to break down (shoulder shot) the bear and shooting too high or too far back. There's a big non-vital area there and thats where their hit when they bounce back up and vamoose.
If you drive a bullet through a bears heart-lung area it's absolutly over pretty quick.
That being said the perfect shot is rare and a person shouldn't try to make a marginal rig work just because he's there. A 300mag w/220s is OK but a 338 w/275 Swifts is better. A 35 or 375 with heavy bullets is about ideal but the real reason Ak guides carry stoppers is because a few of hunters get a twinge of buck fever and it's comforting to have a rifle you feal comfortable with if on your knee's in the alders a bear pops up at 10'.
Most shots in Alaska that go bad are from shooting too high!!

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:

quote:

Originally posted by sep:
RMiller,

I'm curious as to why you would consider the 338 Win Mag as a "step down in power" when compared to the .300 RUM? It would seem we both agree energy figures do nothing more than sell ammunition...at least until we teach bears to read. Then they'll really be effective!

Since both rounds will most likely completely penetrate a bear, I would think a .33 caliber hole completely through a brownie would be preferable to a .30 caliber one? Maybe I'm just splittin hairs...probably cause I'm so fond of the 338 Win Mag.

It is because I also think that both rounds would go right through a bear that I do think you and I both would be spitting hairs about the 300 rum vs the 338 win . If both bullets expanded to double diameter it is only .060" difference. If you handed me one or the other to use for a brown bear I would simply smile and be happy.

GB458 The 200 grain bullets were speer and sierra bullets and the wonderful powder known as RETUMBO. The 240's I was shooting were 240 matchkings they preffered IMR 7828 . Woodliegh makes 240 grain soft points and hawk bullets makes 250's in 30 cal. Personally I would put a 200 Barnes TSX, 200 swift a frame, 220 or 200 partition in the 300 rum for bear hunting.

I would not be surprised to see lots of damage on a deer with a nosler at high speed. That is why I used 200 barnes TSX in a 300 win mag on my last deer trip I put the 200 partitions in for the bear cause I wasnt worried about bloodshot there. The barnes bullets do not bloodshot meat like lead nose bullets do. At least in my opinion.

I am sorry but you sound like Elmer Keith as he thought the 270 win was marginal for coyotes. Not that you or him do not have hunting knowledge. Just different points of view is all.

Agreed. Doubt a bear could tell the difference between .38 bullet diameter.

..............I really don,t know anything about the long range bears ,,,,,But at the closer ranges the expanded diameter of the bullet counts alot ...I shot and recovered about 50 bullets one winter ......I used one of the five different 300 win mags I,ve had ....Wether the bullet was a Barnes X , Swift A Frame , Nosler Partition , Speer Grand Slam ,,or Hornady Interlock , none of the expanded bullets were 1/2 " diameter and most were around .41 caliber .......Another winter I did a similar test with .338 , .416 bullets and .458 bullets ...The 338 bullets were 200 gr Speer and Hornady .......225 gr Remington CorLoc ,Winchester Power Points and sierra Pro Hunter ........The 200 gr didn,t hold up very well and didn,t penetrate very deep .But they penetrated as deep as some of the 30 cal bullets ....Most of the 225 gr bullets were distressed pretty bad but most still weighed 150 gr or more ......The 275 gr Kodiak Bonded Core bullet was the all time best performer of all the 338 bullets that I had available ....They would penetrate as deep as the .30 cal X bullets , further than the .30 Swift and Noslers ......The 275 KBC would always have retained 75% of their weight and usually 95 % ...They all expanded to .6-.68 " These were shot from between 5 feet - 100 yards .....The .375 diameter bullets I have recovered over the years are usually around .7 " diameter and were X bullets , Swift A-Frame and Trophy Bonded Bear Claw .......They often blitzed thru the logs I shot with them ....The .416 run from .59 - .75 " But it is hard to recover them ........My favorite bullets to recover are the .458"X bullets.... Some where I have a couple 400 gr .458 X bullets that are over .9" diameter ......They are amazeing ......But again it is hard to recover them as they really penetrate deeply ....The trail thru the wood the different calibers leave is indicative to their diameter and speed .......with the .458 hogging out 1 1/2 " cuts ............My test medium is mostly frozen Yellow Cedar rounds , frozen Red Alder trees and shot rock or gravel ..............Not very scientific ,.,., but the results showed me alot of why well hit bears ran off after being shot with 30 caliber rifles and why they usually got knocked down by the 338 , even tho they would usually get up they didn,t seem to have as much fire in them as with the 300,s the 2 bears I know of that were shot with the 9.3 regained their hind feet at least but were unable to go any where ...............375 knocks them down well ,,sometimes only the 1 shot is required ...The 40 cals and up just kill them ..........I just wish if someone wants to use a small rifle like a 300 they would do it somewhere where I don,t live ................

Calgary guy.

Here is a thought I will entertain.

If you are already shooting a 300 RUM you will have no problem shooting a 375 h-h. I think the recoil is about the same. I have not shot a 375 ruger but it sounds like it is not bad to shoot either.

I would stick a 300 partition in the 375 and be a happy camper.

I shot the elk in my avatar in Colorado with a 375 h-h and a 270 remington factory load. The rifle was a Sako AV. The bullet went through the ribs and lodged in the far shoulder and did not break the shoulder or exit. That load is not a brown bear load in my opinion.


I think big bores are fun to shoot but many of the rifles they come in are too large, expensive and heavy. I think the cz's are good deals but the are physically to large, for me any way.

Remington is making the sps in 375 I think it would be a good choice or for a couple hundred more you could get a Rem XCR. If the CZ's fit you they would be a good choice. If you bring a blued gun bring lots of gun oil.

I owned a Rem 700 bdl SS synthetic 375 ultra. I really liked that rifle and round but it kicked harder than any rifle I had ever shot. Much harder than the 458 win I had at the time.

...Ya , what he said ..

As I remember the article, the world record Brown Bear was shot with.........a 35 Whelen.
Roy Lindsley, 1952 on Kodiak Island. Collected for the Los Angeles Museum. Only bear he ever shot.

Aren't brownies kind of what the .375 Ruger was just invented for?

In my opinion the new 375 Ruger is the perfect big bear rifle. Of course it doesn't do anything the old H&H round doesn't do, and for that matter won't do anything significantly better than the 35 Whelen, 358 Norma or 9.3x62,
but considering the rifles it is chambered in and it's overall performance it is fantastic.

I was under the impression the Lindsley record book Kodiak was taken with the 30-06. Anyone out there able to look it up?

You are correct Phil. Lindsley used a .30-06...a borrowed one at that! Google "How I Killed the World's Largest Brown Bear". Pretty cool reading.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, It was also pretty close as I remember. I may just load up my new classic, wood stocked 30-06 this year with 220 partitions and carry it during this spring bear season

I found Lindsley's account of the hunt, on a web review of the book "Hunting Bears: Black, Brown, Grizzly, and Polar Bears" by Kathy Etling, and then promptly lost the page. Have never heard of the book nor the author. Printed in 2003, I believe.

A wood & blue '06 with 220's would be a fine thing to celebrate spring with! What's it built on?

Jeff

Another interesting side note to the world record is that P&T had seen and passed up that same bear already that spring. It was too rubbed for them to encourage their client to shoot it. Skull size wasn't such an important factor in those days.

I believe Harry Dodge's Kodiak Island and it's Bears has a full account of the hunt by Lindsley.

PWS, Dodge's book is a very good one. It is interesting about P&T passing up the Lindsley bear and it probably was a call by the guides due to a rubbed hide but the eventual decision still rests with the paying hunter.
By the way, Harry's record on big bears places him as one of the all time best at judging big Kodiak bears.

Jeff, I havn't seen my new 06 but am assured it will be delivered by May. I supplied the FN action and Jerry Fisher round bottom metal, Danny Peterson turned the slim stainless bbl with all the integral bells and whistles and Lon Paul is turning them all into something I am anxious to get my hands on.

PWS,

Thanks for the reference to the Dodge book. I have it, but haven't read it entirely. Will have to do that.

Phil,

With that cast of craftsmen working on your '06, I can see why you're anxious to put your paws on it!

Jeff