riginally posted by 458Win

quote:

I certainly can not afford my own hunt

Phil I can't tell you how many times I've said that very thing.
If anyone thinks Alaskan guides are rakeing in the bucks all you have to do is the math yourself.
Even in the best areas around the state there is a limit to the number of hunters an outfitter can or should take. At $20,000 each lets say and you have 5 hunters in camp $100,000 sounds like a lot of money for a 15 day season.
By the time you trnsport all your equipment and supplies, Pay transportation bills for your guides, wages,Fuel etc it takes a huge chunk out of that.
Thats what the guide gets to live on for the rest of the year, The only way to make that work in the end is to spend all winter on the phone and computer booking up for the next year and working on the Airplane to cut as much mechanic shop rate down as legally possible.

The big hit comes every few years when you need to do a $20,000 rebuild on your supercub engine. Or the one that got me was when some joker decided to take my cub for a joyride and wrecked it on the Willow airport one week before I had a bear hunter arriving.

It's a lifestyle and the payback comes from meeting the "mostly" great clients who so many times invite you down for a hunting trip at their place after you just charged them a seemingly outrageous price to to hunt.

Anyone who may recall any of the great European or African hunting trips that I have mention on some of my previous post, be sure that I did not nor could not pay for these. Like I said "great clients"

My question is are there any good aircraft mechanics (IA) out there who want a real good deal on a bear hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The laws are also meant to protect the game. While guides are not infallible , How many non-resident hunters feel qualified to sex and judge bears? Or can age and judge sheep and goats?

Very true!

Brett

I think it very reasonable to take the base hunt price and use a multiple of 1.5 to estimate an overall cost. Using the 10 day $14,500 hunt as an example, you'd be looking at a ball park figure of $21,750 to cover the bases. Now that would be if you had the resources to pay the bills when they were due. If you needed to pay the bills using credit, the total ending costs could soar several times over, placing a person with limited means into financial hardship for years to come.

I think it wise to plan and save accordingly, and if you must borrow, make sure you do so wisely with very low interest. The person with the resources to pay for the entire hunt without effecting monthly bills, retirement funds, family savings, etc.; is the person who can truly afford such hunts. For the rest of us, it is a juggling act to manage the costs without paying for it out the nose into our later years of life.

Good Luck

Waterat,

John's area is the one adjacent to the one you mentioned and is in Unit 17. John has had the area since '86 and a client should expect a bear squaring around 9 feet. You probably will not shoot a 29" skull there but 26"-28" is pretty normal. Perhaps the increase in bear numbers in the last 24 years has accounted for the increase in size from what you saw.

Mark

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
The laws are also meant to protect the game. How many non-resident hunters feel qualified to sex bears?

Great point! I'm a resident and the last time I tried to sex a bear all I got was a misdemeanor conviction and a hell'va lot of stitches.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
The laws are also meant to protect the game. How many non-resident hunters feel qualified to sex bears?

Great point! I'm a resident and the last time I tried to sex a bear all I got was a misdemeanor conviction and a hell'va lot of stitches.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Bob

That will teach you to stay away from those Russian mail order brides!



Chuck

if you want to make a small foutune in the guiding business....start with a big one.

Guides earn every penny they make... very few are over priced. some are way under priced. i've guided all over the state and only see a couple that made me laugh when they told me what they charge. i'm 13,500 for kodiak...

I did not mean to come across as suggesting the BB hunts are over-priced, just that they are compared to Africa.

Besides, you can't get good Cuban cigars and Amarula if you hunt with Phil. I need my creature comforts...

Rich
here's to quality hunting trips for all of us in 2011.

Rich, when I can find help for $20 per month rather than $200+ per day and am able to shoot camp meat and buy fresh vegtables locally and drive to my hunting areas I will let you know.

Let's see talk our buddy into running his 22 foot woolridge across the inlet into the Mcarthur river in 16B. Two brown bears ever regulatory year. 4 of us less than 400 bucks per person. Won't shoot a 9 footer but will get a 8-81/2 footer all day long. It helps we are residents and don't have to worry about guides. The only dangerous part going across the inlet in 4-5 foot swells I swear we were not going to make across but we did. No bears on that trip if we had more time to stay over there we would of got a couple.

quote:

Originally posted by 323:
Let's see talk our buddy into running his 22 foot woolridge across the inlet into the Mcarthur river in 16B. Two brown bears ever regulatory year. 4 of us less than 400 bucks per person. Won't shoot a 9 footer but will get a 8-81/2 footer all day long The only dangerous part going across the inlet in 4-5 foot swells I swear we were not going to make across but we did. No bears on that trip if we had more time to stay over there we would of got a couple

Sounds like a guide's story

Well not going to get into a pissing match with the famed phil shoemaker. I should have said you can get 8- 8 1/2 if you have time not the two days we were there for. My buddy was back in there two months before they shot two browns and two blacks in 12 hours. Oh you all are paying to damn much too!

There's a number of guides offering pritty cheap hunts down in GMU 16. I've done it. I don't know if there is a way to look it up but there was an episode of SCI Exedition Safari where Mike Rogers shot a 8 foot bear with me near Tyonek. That was the biggest we could find.
There are a few big bears in that area But I would'nt even think about comparing it to Phil's area and that boat aint gonna make it to the AK penn.
Still 323 makes a good point in that there is nothing wrong with paying a lot less for a hunt if you can be happy with a smaller bear especially in a preditor controll area like most of GMU 16 where they just need bears killed big small and in between.

GMU 13 has good bears in there as well don't know why guys are hung up on the Kodiak thing the interior Bears have better hides I think. Unit 16 is fun cause hardly anyone in there. I better shut up before I give up some Alaska honey holes. So yeah keep going to Kodiak nothing here to look at, that's the only place to shoot bears...

323, That was a joke. Hunting is hunting and you are correct about GMU 16 and you can have a great hunt most anywhere in the state if you do your homework.

458Win, I was joking as well LOL... I do know you know alot more than me and you live a life we all dream of. Me just in the Amry doing weekend expeditions with my buddies we only get serious during moose season and take leave.

quote:

I did not mean to come across as suggesting the BB hunts are over-priced, just that they are compared to Africa.

Besides, you can't get good Cuban cigars and Amarula if you hunt with Phil. I need my creature comforts...

And you've spent how much time in Africa ? Also those cuban made Cohibas are tourist smokes not the real deal everyday Cuban street rolled cigarillos that cost a nickel gee people never cease to amaze me

I am heading back to Alaska in September for the third year in a row trying to get a brown bear ... Ain't got one yet so everyone's one hunt quote for a hunt could (sigh) be off a bit ..

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
As long as the State protects them by requiring non-resident big bear hunters to employ the services of a guide it is not going to change.

Just for the record Rich they aren't protecting the guides. They are protecting the people who would come up illprepared and get themselves in trouble with bears or even more likely the environment they live in. It's the same reason why you have to have a guide for sheep and goats. It sure as hell isn't because you're likely to get offed by a sheep or goat. Extreme hunts in Alaska are just that. Weather they are extreme because they are in the mountains or because of the remoteness and weather. Same result. People who don't know what they are getting into and are illprepared getting into trouble!

Brett

Brett:

This is total bullshit. Mountain climbing is far more dangerous than bear hunting, and I can go climb any mountain I want in AK without a guide.

Furthermore, I used to be a resident. I might have more experience hunting bears than you, but since I am no longer a resident, I pay.

I have no problem making non-residents pay for a guide, but at least be honest about it.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
As long as the State protects them by requiring non-resident big bear hunters to employ the services of a guide it is not going to change.

Just for the record Rich they aren't protecting the guides. They are protecting the people who would come up illprepared and get themselves in trouble with bears or even more likely the environment they live in. It's the same reason why you have to have a guide for sheep and goats. It sure as hell isn't because you're likely to get offed by a sheep or goat. Extreme hunts in Alaska are just that. Weather they are extreme because they are in the mountains or because of the remoteness and weather. Same result. People who don't know what they are getting into and are illprepared getting into trouble!

Brett

Brett:

This is total bullshit. Mountain climbing is far more dangerous than bear hunting, and I can go climb any mountain I want in AK without a guide.

Furthermore, I used to be a resident. I might have more experience hunting bears than you, but since I am no longer a resident, I pay.

I have no problem making non-residents pay for a guide, but at least be honest about it.

I would agree that part of it is keeping guides in business, but bullshit is a little much. Keeping people safe is in fact part of it as is Phil's concerns of problems with sexing and trophy judgement.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:


That will teach you to stay away from those Russian mail order brides!



Chuck

Don't knock it til you've tried it! They only scratch your back a bit.

I suspect the State is more interested in the protection of the masses rather than the few folks out there capable surviving in the wilderness on their own. The only caviat to that is there are plenty of "tenderfoots" in Alaska that can hunt without a guide.
The debate goes on. I think one of the main issues in Alaska is there are few roads. In the lower 48, you can possibly find a road to hike to if you get into trouble.
SAT phones GPS are everywhere now; they can be a life saver if you are competent with them.
Also bare in mind the archers (I am one). I think you are taking chances with bears without someone backing you up with a big gun.
It is not a good idea to hunt alone in the wilderness and having a guide prevents us from doing that. You break a ankle or leg out there and you are SOL!

From what I can tell and from what I have seen proof of - Mark Yound and Phil Shoemaker know what they are talking about. They have each hunted bears and lived in Alaska and know the drill. Mark has a lot of African experience and Phil has a son that worked there.

I see a lot of advice on this forum from a guy or two that have limited or no experience in Alaska or Africa. You can guess who they are.

As to the original poster - deal with a reputable agent/outfitter and you will have a fantastic experience. Get him to provide you with a good estimate of the costs. Add 10% and you will be fine.

You are much better off paying 10% to much and getting what you are after than paying 10% too little and sitting in a leaky tent, with a stinky guide in an area devoid of bears.

BTW - I would do Phil or Mark's hunt in a minute - they are both in great areas, offer great guides and would be memorable.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
As long as the State protects them by requiring non-resident big bear hunters to employ the services of a guide it is not going to change.

Just for the record Rich they aren't protecting the guides. They are protecting the people who would come up illprepared and get themselves in trouble with bears or even more likely the environment they live in. It's the same reason why you have to have a guide for sheep and goats. It sure as hell isn't because you're likely to get offed by a sheep or goat. Extreme hunts in Alaska are just that. Weather they are extreme because they are in the mountains or because of the remoteness and weather. Same result. People who don't know what they are getting into and are illprepared getting into trouble!

Brett

Brett:

This is total bullshit. Mountain climbing is far more dangerous than bear hunting, and I can go climb any mountain I want in AK without a guide.

Furthermore, I used to be a resident. I might have more experience hunting bears than you, but since I am no longer a resident, I pay.

I have no problem making non-residents pay for a guide, but at least be honest about it.

I would agree that part of it is keeping guides in business, but bullshit is a little much. Keeping people safe is in fact part of it as is Phil's concerns of problems with sexing and trophy judgement.

Brett

Brett:

It is ALL about keeping guides in business. Like I said, I can go mountain climbing on the same hill a guide is using to guide hunters. But if I try and shoot a sheep, I am breaking the law.

What about former residents? I shot a grizzly on a DIY hunt by my absolute self. Why can't I do that again? I used to live there; I know how to cope. Hell, I once spent a night in a tent at -55 with no heat. How many guides have done that?

Anyway, like I said, I have no issue with the guide rule. Regs in Alaska change a lot. Besides, if I am going to spend the time, I want to up the odds. And we do need to manage the resource, although in my opinion that can be done effectively through tag draws.

ISS: everytime the issue of a hunt's price comes up you compare it to Africa. I have hunted extensively in both, as well as BC and the Yukon (which to me are one in the same). You can't compare the hunting or the trophies. You can't even compare whitetail hunting to most African animals. Comparing an average impala to an average whitetail is like comparing an antelope to deer: the antelope is exotic, but a pushover compared to the deer. Now granted, there are certain animals like elephants, lion, LDE, bongo, mountain nyala, and maybe leopard that are in a league by themselves, but a run of the mill buffalo is not that tough. Change it to a big buffalo and you are talking a completely different story, just like a 70 inch moose is different from a 50 inch moose.

Like I said a few years ago, "There is no shortage of fat guys with trophy rooms full of African game."

However, there is one common element of danger in both Africa and Alaska: the charter flight, the most dangerous time of all.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
As long as the State protects them by requiring non-resident big bear hunters to employ the services of a guide it is not going to change.

Just for the record Rich they aren't protecting the guides. They are protecting the people who would come up illprepared and get themselves in trouble with bears or even more likely the environment they live in. It's the same reason why you have to have a guide for sheep and goats. It sure as hell isn't because you're likely to get offed by a sheep or goat. Extreme hunts in Alaska are just that. Weather they are extreme because they are in the mountains or because of the remoteness and weather. Same result. People who don't know what they are getting into and are illprepared getting into trouble!

Brett

Brett:

This is total bullshit. Mountain climbing is far more dangerous than bear hunting, and I can go climb any mountain I want in AK without a guide.

Furthermore, I used to be a resident. I might have more experience hunting bears than you, but since I am no longer a resident, I pay.

I have no problem making non-residents pay for a guide, but at least be honest about it.

In my mind I really wish more Western States would do something similar.

I am an Alaska resident, my parents live in Wyoming. There is absolutly no way for me to become a Wyoming resident while I am in the military unless I get stationed there. I can see that, and while I was born in Wyoming and mostly grew up there I am still not a resident.

People that choose to live in a state should have privlidges over those that don't. Regardless of what Alaska calls it, or Wyoming with their Wilderness Law. It provides residents a privlidge for the sake of living there, and I agree.

I would really like to see more western states limit drawings on bighorns and moose to residents only like I beleive South Dakota has done. At least the folks that make a living there have a chance (in their lifetime) of getting a ram and a moose. And that is the way it should be.

ER,

that would be twenty-two days in hunting camp in two trips.
How about you?

If you buy Cuban cigars at authorized outlets, you will get genuine ones.
How much time have you spent in Cuba?

You post as if you have sooo much more experience at these things than I do, how about sharing some of your vast experience with me? I am always ready to learn from those who have accomplished so much more in their lifetime than I have.

Help a poor pilgrim out...

regards,

Rich
DRSS

You sent me a private message and try to engage me in a fourm this is getting sad and I refuse to clog this mans thread with the likes of your childish BULSHIT ! one minute you send me messages how im right about the 416 fourm and explain how your inlove with the old ivory hunters now your busting my balls get over it

check your PM's and figure out which one of me you are talking to. I solicit information here every day or two about hunting in Africa.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

I hunted on the Tsiu 2 years ago and spent $20,000 excluding travel and Lic. Great time with one of the top outfitters in the business. Alpha Furs in Anchorage did the tanning, skull bleach and shipped to Miami, FL for less than $500.00.
Alaska is not for everyone. She gives up nothing
and can truly test a hunter both physical and mental. Be prepared to hunt in rain, sleet, high winds, and snow. If the sun comes out that means that its about to rain. Spend your money on the right gear and you will be comfortable despite the conditions.
It will probably be if not the most memorable hunting experience of your hunting career.
One last bit of advice. Nothing in Alaska is cheap, it cost money to do things right.
There is a reason why the top guides get top dollars and book 2 to 3 years in advance. And it's not by having a fancy website.
Good luck!

Richard

Like other species, the cost can be all across the board. I have taken them on both Kodiak and the Peninsular. Now days not much difference in price with the outfitters I hunted with. The Kodiak hunt was some years ago. Each close to $20K.

Kodiak bear was taken with a .338 the Peninsular was with archery. Regardless of where you hunt, I would consider nothing less than a 10 day hunt. Fifteen day is the least I would do.

What if you don't see or shoot a bear. Do you still pay the full price? How often does this happen? 25-50% of the time?

buying a hunt...not a bear. no discounts for not killing stuff.
i'd say about 30 percent of brown bear hunters don't score...based off kodiak success rate.

have to do is the math yourself.
Even in the best areas around the state there is a limit to the number of hunters an outfitter can or should take. At $20,000 each lets say and you have 5 hunters in camp $100,000 sounds like a lot of money for a 15 day season.
By the time you trnsport all your equipment and supplies, Pay transportation bills for your guides, wages,Fuel etc it takes a huge chunk out of that

The big hit comes every few years when you need to do a $20,000 rebuild on your supercub engine. Or the one that got me was when some joker decided to take my cub for a joyride and wrecked it on the Willow airport one week before I had a bear hunter arriving.

It's a lifestyle and the payback comes from meeting the "mostly" great clients who so many times invite you down for a hunting trip at their place after you just charged them a seemingly outrageous price to to hunt.

Anyone who may recall any of the great European or African hunting trips that I have mention on some of my previous post, be sure that I did not nor could not pay for these. Like I said "great clients"

My question is are there any good aircraft mechanics (IA) out there who want a real good deal on a bear hunt?[/QUOTE].
.
.I know that the master guide that I worked for was a real good dentist . Had to be so he could afford to be a guide ..
.
.Ak. I got a kick from your help wanted add . . I,ve done the same thing trying to find a mechanic . Tho not with a hunt . . Mechanics gotta keep warm too. . .
.
A guy does what he,s good at . I aint a good mechanic .

I'm budgeting $25k when all is said and done going with a first class outfitter (including tip, air transportation, but not taxidermy). I'm looking real hard at both success rates and quality of bears taken, started doing my research both here, on the AFGA site as well as checking hunting reports. Haven't started checking references yet. I hope to book something this summer for either spring 2012 or 2013. I'd rather wait for the outfitter I want and go later than pick an outfitter who has a slot open. This is a once in a lifetime deal for me.

Mike Dettorre is right. Paying $20K+ for a bear hunt is for guys who want a premium area where they have legit shots at truly huge boars. However, $15K is probably a practical minimum all in (including transport and tanning etc). Less than that and I would start to worry about success rates etc. That said, $15K probably wont even get you started on an end of the season elephant bull special in Zim. It MIGHT, just MIGHT cover your expenses on the ground but then you have to pay airfare, tips, shipping, and hide tanning.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

However, there is one common element of danger in both Africa and Alaska: the charter flight, the most dangerous time of all.

+1. The most dangerous part of any trip!

I've had two close calls. Far, far more scary compared to the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Hi, I'm looking to book a brown bear hunt but really need to get a handle on the total cost of the hunt.

Chuck

A marriage, a 401K and you're all set.

It'll only cost me that much if I bring a pretty young thing home from the Alaskan Bush Co ...