Hi folks, I'm looking for a recommendation for a stainless/synthetic rifle for brown bear. I already have a 500 Jeffery, so not sure if I want to buy a 375 H&H. I don't really have a reasonable elk rifle anymore since I gave my 38 year old 270 to my son (who just got his first elk with it).

I was thinking maybe a Weatherby Vanguard Sub MOA in 300 Weatherby, a Remington XCR II in 300 RUM or 300 Win Mag, or an M70 Extreme Weather in 300 Win Mag. I'm not a 338 fan, so if the 300s are too light, I'd just as soon buy a Remington XCR II in 375 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I'd just as soon buy a Remington XCR II in 375 H&H.

Sounds like a plan.

Brett

There is no bear that you couldn't cleanly kill with any of the big 30s with quality bullets. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot one with 168gr TSX out of my 300 RUM.

A 300 Mag with B,N,S, or W 220's is as potent a brown bear killing combo as you'll ever need.

I tend to use more than enough gun as well and would most certainly go with a .375 HH, Weatherby or the RUM

quote:

Originally posted by grizz007:
I tend to use more than enough gun as well and would most certainly go with a .375 HH, Weatherby or the RUM

If you have a .375 or acess to one and can handle one......why not? If the largest rifle you have is a 30 cal and don't want to buy another gun.....by all means.

Brett

ya sure , use your 300 . the guide can keep your bear from departing with his bear rifle . If your a good enough shot to kill a bear where he stands with a 300 , you should be even better with a 270 . So I think it stands to reason the 270 would make you just a great bear hunter . If your hunting tundra grizzlies in wide open , vast expanses of waste land where you are more just target shooting than dangerous game hunting . but if your hunting one on a fish crik in the fall in Southeast , then the standard old wisdom of useing the largest caliber you can shoot well is the best advice ... A 375 is a good caliber for client hunters for brown bear . and in lots of peoples opinions they arn,t any worse to shoot than a fast 300 .

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
A 300 Mag with B,N,S, or W 220's is as potent a brown bear killing combo as you'll ever need.

.

perhaps where you hunt . Not where I do!!

I'm with you, if you don't want to hunt with a 30 caliber pass the 338 and go to a 375 caliber. Buy yourself a Ruger Alaskan in 375 and call it good, best buy for the buck and a great Alaskan rifle.

+1

Totally agree!

Brett

Sounds like a plan only I need to buy another 375 H&H then. Maybe Winchester will come out with a 375 H&H in their extreme weather line. I already have dies, brass and bullets, besides there's something about the 375 H&H that just spells class.

It won't matter what caliber you take. If you end up "close & personal" with one of those puppys, that rifle will be too small. BTDT.
Now, I don't have a .375 and have only shot one one time. It was an acquaintances rifle & I happened to see him at the range one day. He asked me if I wanted to shoot it so I said "Ok". Being the recoil shy kinda guy, I took the shot standing up, expecting to be knocked on my butt. No such thing happened but expecting the recoil, I jerked the trigger & of course missed what I was shooting at. Turns out the recoil wasn't all that bad but I don't recall the rifle manufactureer.
Anyway, I'd say if you wanted a .375 for this hunt, I'd go for it but for me, I'd use my .338 WM with a 240 gr. Northfork. That's the rifle I use on our moose hunts and it does pack plenty of punch.
I'd just make certain that I spent a lot of range time with it and the load I was going to use to gain absolute confidence. And, since it's me, I have a set of open sights installed as a backup "just in case" and they would be sighted in with the load I would use on that bear. Good insurance for an expensive hunt. That's me tho.
Bear in FAirbanks

Chuck,

I can't tell you how much I recommend the 375. With bullets like the 260 ACB or 270 TSX it shoots as flat as the 338. With the 300 grainers it just whacks big bears and ungulates hard and will allow you to take a shot at any reasonable angle. It just makes a bigger hole. With a 30 cal something you often can't even find the entrance hole until you skin the animal. With a 375 you'll see the steam coming out of the entry holes as you walk up on the animal.

Mark

Thanks Mark, I had a 375 H&H but I rebarreled it to 500 Jeffery which I intend to restock with a Bell & Carlson synthetic from CZ and bring along, so I'm not recoil shy. I shoot it pretty well, can typically hit a soda can offhand with a sling at 100 yards. The downside is it's heavy (12 lbs with scope & sling and 3 rounds of ammo in the magazine).

So I guess I'm in the market for a stainless / synthetic 375 H&H. Right now the Remington XCR II looks pretty good, but I'd rather have a M70 extreme weather if they would only make one in 375 H&H.

I plan to bring both rifles and be proficient with both of course. I already have 400 plus rounds through the 500 Jeffery.

Thanks all,

Chuck

Chuck, depending on where you hunt you may not have to pack your rifle for miles and miles . The Ruger Alaskan is an extremly well thot out rifle . pretty hard to beat .
On smaller game , deer ect the 375 doesn,t ruin any more meat than the 300 s but on an animal the ize of a 9' brown bear , the 300 doesn,t have near the affect the 375 does .
I like the XCR in 375 . but prefer the Ruger . Shorter barrel , banded fore sight and sling eye . Won,t break scope bases and rings . . And a great trigger and the safest safety on a turn bolt rifle . . .

I've handled a few gumboot458, I'm not crazy about the Hogue stock, or the fact that I'm pretty much limited to Hornady for cases/ammo, but I'm not crazy about the Remington XCR stock either. I'm thinking about looking for a Winchester M70 Classic Stainless in 375 H&H. Seems like I missed a nice one that got sold in the AR classifieds for $1100 a year ago.

They're not hard to find..Gun Broker, Guns America, Guns Intl, Auction Arms.

is there a problem with Hornady?? I,ve chronographed a bunch of 375 Ruger . it goes as fastas it says on the box . I put canoe paddle stocson my last 2 375 Rugers . I was goint to put a Boyds JRS lam. stock on my last one but another rifle caught my eye so the 375 went bye bye.... I need to hunt my 9.3/64 B more anyway

No problem with Hornady gumboot458, they make good brass. I'm not partial to their bullets, but I'm sure ammo will be available soon if it's not already with A-Frames and Noslers. Guess I just want a 375 H&H ... no disrespect to the Ruger 375 intended ...

No ,, I think the H+ H is an awesome , world class classic round . I may get another some day . I just prefer all the features on the Ruger and that I didn,t have to fix them before they were ready to hunt . . . .But thats me . . .

Jeff Cooper once said that the 375 H&H was too much gun for 90% of the game, and not enough for the other 10%.

That was one area where I disagreed with him.

I think is is the perfect gun for the big bears, and other big stuff like Eland, big elk and moose in the timber.

It works pretty good on deer, wild pigs and turkey as well.

For big bears a 375 H&H is hard to beat.

Turkey ????????
. Please explain !!!
Saeed did illuminate one of Cooper,s errors , concerning cape buffalo . but I think he had the rifle thing pretty well figured out . As to configuration at least . Tho I,m not into the Styer Scout . The Ruger Compact ,Frontier and Scout rifles are the best IMO . If it wasn,t for taking my up coming new rifle thru Canada , I would build a 16.5" barreled 500 AR .
I do think he made a doctrine and publicised it for his profit with the 1911 stuff . Glocks are far superior (-:|) ...()-:|).
Cooper definatly got the 375 wrong also. I can not understand the concept of having too big a gun , as far as overkill is concerned. Even Pondora got mixed up on that . But Pondoro did say it was better to use too much gun than not enough . . The too much concept to me, has to do with a very limited senario.. . Like the 30 cals. and brown bear ... Most of the time a hunter will get the shot he ens up with . Hopefully it will be perfect . Some areas of the state tend toward nice open country . places like Kodiak ,Afronak ,the Penninsula , the Interior . Th thickest brush there is there is really nice open easy to get around in country . . In Southeast . to have less than 5 feet of visibility in some densly populated bear area is common . Bears LOVE thick brush . It doesn,t hamper them in the least . Thats why we glass the grass flats . It is often the only place where you can see a bear . or on the beach somewhere else . I don,t worry about a mad bear in the alders , heck you can see them 20 ft. away . I worry about bears @ 15 ft. or less . They can jump that far . in one jump . In those situations anyone will be wisteling dixi to think they can brain or spine a bear .

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
No ,, I think the H+ H is an awesome , world class classic round . I may get another some day . I just prefer all the features on the Ruger and that I didn,t have to fix them before they were ready to hunt . . . .But thats me . . .

Great point gumboot. There's a lot to be said for not having to fix a new rifle. My CZ 550 has had a bunch of work done, some not needed but desired (3 pos M70 type safety, single stage trigger, filled and straighten bolt). Some definitely needed, smoothing of the action and a bunch of work to make my 500 Jeffery feed reliably (fill the magazine and cycle the bolt rapidly, do this 100 times without malfunction). All told I have $2500 in this rifle counting scope, dies and gunsmithing bills.

That's why I'm looking for a tried and true M70 Classic stainless in a round (375 H&H) that has been designed to feed flawlessly. Besides I have two sons so now I'll have to find a left handed one too (for the older boy in the 3rd Ranger Battalion) to keep things even.

I will bring the 500 too, because now that the trials and tribulations are over it's a great gun, but gonna get it restocked in synthetic just for the Alaska trip. I figure spending $500 on a new stock is pretty small change compared to the $20k plus the Kodiak bear hunt will cost.

A 570g TSX at 2410 fps will stop things if you hit them in the right place ...



pretty stock NOT going to Alaska

One just has to go stand by a full sizes brown bear mount to realize just how dam big they can be.

After doing that a few times I went and had a 416 taylor built. Now days I would just go out and by a 416 Ruger for a brown bear hunt.

Chuck 375 570 at 2410 well be just about right when a really big one is standing in front of you at 50 yards.

Should work well to break both shoulders.

I reccomend a custom 340 Wby Mag. Just happen to have one to save the day.
Check out the classified
No need to thank me
Phil

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
The downside is it's heavy (12 lbs with scope & sling and 3 rounds of ammo in the magazine).
Chuck

Chuck you won't find a better package with weight caliber ratio than the Ruger Alaskan. I have a Ruger 375 w/laminate stock that weighs in at 7 lb 12oz, and a Ruger 416 that weights 7 lb 14 oz. Rifle weight works on you all day, recoil is but for a split second. As far as components go all you'll need to do is by a set of RCBS or Hornady dies and you have the rest of the components. If your ever on the west slope let me know and you can shoot them both.

Chuck, since I assume you will be going with a guide, what is his recommendation?
Having killed bears with about everything from a 30-06 to a 505 Gibbs I think your 500 should work just fine but there is nothing at all wrong with your original thoughts on a good 300.

I would recomend .340 Wthby, .338 Win, .375 H.H.. Lots of good options and good bullets.

As soon as I find time to take photos and get it posted I'm going to put an early model ( Mauser action) Sako .375 H&H re- chambered to .375 Weatherby by Simmons of Spring Hill, Ks. up for sale, it has two stocks, the original wood and a glass bedded Bell and Carlson. I'm trying to decide on a price. It's in excellant condition. Also have a Mark x in .458 with a glass bedded Bell and Carlson stock for sale.

there are so many Great medium bores . I think the 358s ,Norma and STA .are ideal they handle good bullets and don,t have to be heavy rifles . The 340 is great . The faster 9.3s . For me , they all got upstaged by the 375 Ruger . But thats just me . I shot a forked horn deer on Kruzof one time @ 100 yards with a 338 win mag ,200 gr X bullets @2900 fps mz. The deer stood on his hind legs swung around and took off running . The shot was good and I knew it was heart shot . A friend and I looked everywhere for that deer and without Divine intervention we never would have found it . I finally found the top ball of his leg bone laying on the ground . the deer was 20 yards past where the bone was laying . He was dead as a wedge ..
My point is , There is nothing Garrenteed in killing an animal but you may as well put the odds in your favor .
.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
The downside is it's heavy (12 lbs with scope & sling and 3 rounds of ammo in the magazine).
Chuck

Chuck you won't find a better package with weight caliber ratio than the Ruger Alaskan. I have a Ruger 375 w/laminate stock that weighs in at 7 lb 12oz, and a Ruger 416 that weights 7 lb 14 oz. Rifle weight works on you all day, recoil is but for a split second. As far as components go all you'll need to do is by a set of RCBS or Hornady dies and you have the rest of the components. If your ever on the west slope let me know and you can shoot them both.

Hi dirklawyer, I may take you up on that! I live in Colorado Springs. The Ruger Alaskan is a nice package and as gumboot says, works out of the box.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Chuck, since I assume you will be going with a guide, what is his recommendation?
Having killed bears with about everything from a 30-06 to a 505 Gibbs I think your 500 should work just fine but there is nothing at all wrong with your original thoughts on a good 300.

Hi Phil, I've just really started talking to guides, Gus Lamoureux being one of them. I'm looking for a spring hunt in 2013. I haven't committed to anyone yet since I'm getting my health (heart failure) back together. I was at SCI Reno the year before, but didn't make it this year. The guides I've spoken to think the 500 Jeffery is fine as long as I can shoot it and lug it (it's 12 lbs with scope). I can definitely shoot it, got a mule deer at just over 200 yards with it in Oct 09, kneeling using a sling. Lugging it was no issue until I got sick. Since it weighs 12 lbs I was thinking of a lighter synthetic / stainless rifle as well as a backup. I am recovering, walked 4 miles yesterday, plan to get up to 8 miles at 7 degrees elevation every day.

I planned to contact you as well, though I'm guessing you're booked well into 2014.

Thanks for all of the advice you've given on this forum and the campfire.

So what's everyone's opinion on a Winchester Model 70 stainless/synthetic in 375 H&H?

I had a 338 ss model 70 . It was kind of a great big rifle . I traded it for something , a S+W 45 colt, the rifle was one of the best trades I ever got . Sometimes I sure am stupid on gun deals . Not that the pistol wasn,t nice but . . A stainlees synthetic crf model 70 with a 3×9 Leupold vx3 and iron sights , and a BOSS. oh well.
.
The Win model 70 in 375 is The classic Alaskan bear rifle . Jim Harrower used a pre 64 for so long it didn,t have any bluing left on it .. He dumped a number of polar bear with that rifle.. alot of everything else too.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
So what's everyone's opinion on a Winchester Model 70 stainless/synthetic in 375 H&H?

Chuck the only bolt rifles I own are M70's and Rugers, My wife has two pre 64's one in 30-06 and the other in 375H&H which we shot yesterday, she loves them. My twelve year old daughter has a M70 in 30-06. IMO you can't beat a nice M70 in that configuration for Alaska weather.

I've got several M70's in .375 H&H, one is a classic stainless/synthetic with the plastic stock. I generally dislike synthetics, and this one was my least favorite until I found it's load.
With 270 gr Barnes TSX's it will shoot 1/2" at 200 yds over RL-15. With that plastic stock it isn't pleasant to shoot full-house loads, so I load the Hornady 220 gr flatpoints over IMR4227 for practice. I've never weighed it, but it is extremely light and a pleasure to carry.Not much to look at, but proved itself on a 10' brownie last May.
I would rather shoot my walnut/blue .375's, but don't think I'll ever be without my classic stainless.

Chuck, several of my clients have taken Brown Bears with their 300RUM. I own one myself and it's plenty for Brown Bears. It's also a great cartridge for Elk, long range Deer and much of Africa.
LDK

Thanks, I'm partial to blued/wood rifles myself, but since I'm planning to hunt Alaska I want a stainless/synthetic rifle that won't change point of aim when it gets soaked. I do plan to have my 500 Jeffery restocked with the CZ Bell & Carlson synthetic stock that RIP did a great post on as well. In reality that's probably all I need to bring for bear. A 300 Mag would be a lot more useful here in Colorado. Lugging my 12 lb 500 Jeffery in elk country is no joy lol ...

I've killed 2 brown bears on the peninsula. One with a 375 H&H and one with my 416. Both bears died on the spot, but the 416 Rem pancaked my 9' 11" boar this spring. Almost anything will work if your shot placement is correct.