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Of the following which do you guys think would be the better brown bear rifle/bullet combo? Combo A: A 35whelen shooting a 225gr TSX at 2600-2650fps. or Combo B: A 300win shooting a 200gr TSX at 2800-2850fps. ______________________ | ||
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35 Whelen. I like the bigger bullet Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum | |||
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Myself I wouldn't want to use either for Brown Bear. I would want my Rem 416. That way it's either me or him. And the odds say its me that would surive! | |||
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Either caliber will work fine with the bullets described but there is a bit more to Brown Bear hunting than simply picking a caliber and bullet. I would also look at the rifles and take the one that would be most resistant to foul, wet weather. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Well... the whelen is blued and the 300 is stainless. Both wear a plastic stock. ______________________ | |||
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I'd use my ruger in .338 Win Mag! *We Band of .338 ers*.NRA Member | |||
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Whichever rifle you shoot best and are most comfortable with. Blued guns do just fine, though you'll want to wax the barreled action. As much as I'm a fan of the 35's, I really doubt you'd see a discernable difference in terminal performance between the two. That said, I would choose the whelen. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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mark65X55 ----- I took my 91/2 Brown Bear with a 200 grain Nosler Partition at 2900 fps. It did the job well but that experience was quite eye opening with the sudden appearance of three additional Bears at the shot. On my subsubsequent trips to Brown Bear country I was armed with a .340 Wby and .358 STA respectfully.  Good shooting.phurley | |||
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mark; i vote for combo b. good luck. i like phurley's selection .340 wthby or 358 sta either does just fine. i would like to see more guys use the .358... Cold Zero | |||
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Mark, I'd get a weatherproof finish applied to the Whelen and take that if I only had those choices. For me personally I'd take my beater 375 with a 300gr SAF and be very confident it would handle anything. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I built a stainless Ruger MkII in .416 taylor just in case I can even go brown bear hunting. | |||
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Search here for a recent post by Shoemaker. I was pleased that he approved of the 358 Win. He made the point that you would have a guide with you that had a stopping rifle and to shoot the rifle that you shoot the best. He did not approve of the 243 as I recall! It rains ALL of the time there. Bring a gun that you will not mind getting wet. SE AK Forecast Join the NRA | |||
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does anyone have a link to another one of phil's pearls of wisdom referenced above? thanks. Cold Zero | |||
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Mark, Phil made a comment that should be strongly heeded..."foul wet weather". Most guys headed up there i have noticed are more concerned with their barrels being stainless steel than the other components. I would rate it the second most important item on your rifle to pay attention to. The trigger being the first. I try to stay away from giving advice on any forum, but this one is important. To hell with your barrel...tape it up. Use a gun with a Winchester style trigger and preferably one that will not rust. I have seen Remington triggers fail in bad weather. As for the rest. A person going to Alaska to hunt for a week or two or three or even longer really does not need to be overly concerned about having a truly weatherproof rifle (other then the trigger). A blued steel gun will NOT rust enough to cause ANY problems (again..except your trigger). By the way I just returned from three weeks in Alaska where my gun seen three days of sunshine. EVERY day except those glorious three was either drizzling or showering, often both. My blued gun with a stainless barrel and a, God forbid, wooden stock did fine. The grip cap was chrome molly steel that had NO treatment or bluing on it of any kind hardly even began to rust. If you lived or guided in Alaska then i would worry about all the other SS this and SS that and plastic/teflon/fiberglass....etc. Otherwise pick the gun that makes the biggest hole with the heaviest bullet available for that gun, keep you ammo dry, and go bust a bear. | |||
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Simple. Use the Whelen. best, bhtr | |||
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afreeman raises a good point. your remington trigger will rust if attention is not given to it. this i know from personal experience. i returned this week from 3 weeks in the ak. mtns. and the only gun maintenance i gave my gun was cleaning the scope lenses and oiling the trigger. i do however disagree about the blue steel guns and rust. i have seen them rust severely in as little as a couple of days in a maritime environment. y.m.m.v. take care of your trigger. Cold Zero | |||
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Guys, Cold Zero is completely right. Unlees you have a cabin to come back to where you can completely dry your rifle out and then clean it throughly each day your blued rifle can rust badly. In a tent you just cannot get the rifle dry enough to do the trick. Also in Alaska your rifle may be called into service as a walking stick, paddle or tent pole so if the thought of those thinkgs makes you shudder leave your blued and walnut stocked rifle at home. A little backpack tent in the horizontal rain is not a place to baby your treasure. You need a tool for the job and for me there is no substitute for SS and synthetic. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Guys, in the interest of a good topic... I will further my comment...that we did stay in a tent on this hunt of which i just returned from. Some days i wiped the gun with a rag, some days i did not. Only light rust and even then it was spotty. Perhaps my idea of light rust is relative to others idea as badly. Or perhaps it is a case of different metals. Although my grip cap was raw steel, no bluing or any rust preventative. Wax and oil once in a while. in the end, it is 'character' that is added to the gun. I have a number of vintage guns. Those with wear are the ones that hold the most charm and it may not be a coincidence that those are all good shooters. | |||
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Is this a coastal hunt? If you add sea spray into the mix, corrosion is greatly exacerbated. My blued/wood rifle that would only get minor rust on drizzly moose hunts got some serious rust on our island deer hunt last year. Not to the point of not working, it's a mauser mil surp so functions fine in rough conditions. I have heard more stories and ancedotes of Browning A-bolts, even the stainless ones, rusting up to the point of being unusable, in in very short time frames, like overnight. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I think everyone knows of my preference for rugged, weather proof rifles but Adam and gunsmith Lon Paul disagree with me on a few details. This spring Lon carried an original, 1910 vintage Rigby in 350 rigby on a hunt with me and had no problems at all. If you have a favorite rifle that you have confidence in then by all means bring it. "Beauty marks" aquired on a hunt simply make good rifles even better looking. IMHO Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Take the 35 Whelen. Send it out to have all of the metal parts hard chromed and you will not have to worry about rust/corrosion at all. I have a 35 Whelen Ruger M77RS coated with Metalife hard chrome in a Hi-Tech Specialties fiberglass stock and it is totally water proofed(even salt water) handles well and looks great too. The Whelen is a real performer when you want it dead right damn now. A 225 TSX should perform well at ranges where big bears should be taken. | |||
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Either one. But might lean towards the 35. for a bigger hole  .-------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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Yes, its a boat hunt off the ABCs. ______________________ | |||
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Mark 65x55 35 Whelen..Failsafe bullets..Oh forgot no .358 Failsafes..Robar the metal..No wood.. AK | |||
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Mark, Bring the whelen, work up some 200 grn loads for the Model 70 300 WSM and we will use that as a back up...I'll bring my 376 and some crown royal for ya... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My rifle's must be special I mainly use blued barrels and wood stocked Remingtons. I hardly ever take my rifle into a tent or cabin while hunting I find a dry spot outside and leave it there I hate fogged up scopes on cold mornings. Before every season I take my rifle apart and give it a good cleaning and I do the same thing when I'm done hunting for the year. I have only had one problem with water came back from Kodiak late in November got home desided to go caribou hunting December 1st up on the Steese the temp was -25 when we left the truck 2 hours later we found some Caribou pulled the trigger nothing happened tryed it 4 more times same results so I pulled the bolt out of the rifle and stuck it in my mouth to blow some warm air into the bolt to thaw the firing pin out. (not a very smart thing to do) Removed bolt from mouth very painful put it back in the rifle shot the caribou. When I got home I took the bolt apart full of nasty rust gunk cleaned it up good as new. I don't care what type of rifle or rifle finish you have if water gets into moving parts and freezes your in trouble. Who cares if you rifle gets a little surface rust its still just a tool. As long as it does its job keep using it. | |||
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Thanks for the discussion on the bolt. Before hunting in foul weather I will make sure I take my firing pin out and put plenty of silicone spray inside the bolt. I thought about getting the rifle teflon coated but got to thinking about it one day and since the rifle and action were protected with bluing I got an idea. I removed the sope and stock and cleaned the metal with alcohol. Got some 1200 degree BBQ Grill paint and put 5 coats on it and it looks great. | |||
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I'd go with the whelen also. cant really beat it. I've had whelens in the past and have one being built as we speak. Dwight, I've had my 338 finished by krylon for about 7 years now and its the best finished I'ved used so far (and the cheapest). its time for me to refinish it though. People laugh or scoff at the idea cuz its not GQ (or whatever they call it nowadays) but it plain ole works. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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Yes, its a boat hunt off the ABCs.[/QUOTE] My wife & I went on a 10 day boat hunt for brown bear in the ABC Islands. We brought Rem700, stainless, synthetic rifles in 338WinMag. I cleaned the barrels and wiped them down with rust preventative every day. They worked well. I didn’t clean the trigger assemblies and they functioned fine during the 10 days we hunted. I should have probably at least sprayed some rust preventative in there. Your gun will get covered with salt spray from traveling around in the skiffs. It’s usually damp or raining and there is always salt in the air. You can practically watch rust form on steel parts, even stainless. I would not hesitate to bring a blued steel gun with a wood stock as long as it wasn’t anything that I felt a need to baby. I’d make sure to clean the barrel and wipe it down everyday. After I got back home I’d take the stock off and clean it real well to get the salt residue off. It will have a little rust on it but who cares. The two guides we hunted with had Sako rifles, blued steel, wood stock, in .375H&H. They cleaned them every day. The guns had a lot of damage from rust, but functioned okay. They told me they had their rifles re-blued every year or two. | |||
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Just back from hunting bear in AK with pal A. Freeman. I took two Dakota rifles. One a 338 win and 416 Rigby. I thought the 338 would be enough gun( load 275 gr A Frames) and it probably is. But, when the bush is thick and you need a fast finishing shot ill take the Rigby( load 410 Woodleighs) . it puts them down. There were to many sows with cubs to be tracking bears through thick alder etc. Plus it was raining and the noise from the streams made it impossible to hear a bear coming. Not the kind of place you want to be crawling around. Next trip bear hunting i will be packing the big bore. DC Barker | |||
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Did you kill a bear, LUX? | |||
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I killed a blonde colored brown bear and a very nice black bear. The bear hunting was very good . Hunt photos on our web site: www.luxuswalnut.com Clay | |||
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FROM THE tone of THIS thread... https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/502102065/p/1 obviously a .243win...  NEVER fear the night. Fear what hunts IN the night. | |||
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I booked a brown bear hunt for 2005, however sent my deposit in 3 years prior. I had 'years' to deliberate over the right gun for the hunt. If are you a skilled marksman, are using a quality bullet, and have a guide with you who is also packing a rifle (assuming this is the case), you don't 'need' to go in with a 416.....etc. I choose a 378 Weatherby and quite honestly would have been just as well served with my 340 Weatherby or a much lighter 338 WM. I spent 11 days on snowshoes and 2 days (one overnight away from the tent) trying to close the distance on a nice boar. The power and trajectory of the 378 was a 'nice to have', but not necessary. All I could think about the last day of the hunt (and the day I shot my bear) was how nice it would have been to be carrying my 338 (much lighter). I don't think you can go wrong with either choice as long as you choose your shot wisely. good luck | |||
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Where were you hunting and how far did you have to shoot ? Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Hello Phil, its a pleasure to chat with you. I have enjoyed many of your articles over the years. I hunted with Wild Alaskan Guides in GMU 16. A 'no frills' hunt but I had the best guide a guy could ask for. I am 34 and in quite good shape, my guide (and outfitter) was closer to 47 and it was all I could do to keep up with him.........especially on the 2 day pursuit/stalk of my boar. I shot my bear at 160 yards. I know that many would say that this is pushing the distance of what is an ethical shot. I am a pretty solid marksman, had a good rest.....and believe it or not I shot him in the head (intentionally). I was so burned out and drained after 11 days on snowshoes......in addition to spending a very cold night sleeping in a snow den, I didn't want this bear to go anywhere. Hunting Alaska this way was an eye opener.....the men/women who hunt and live there are no joke......as tough as they make them. | |||
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stew; congrats on a well earned b.b. who owns wild alaskan guides? Cold Zero | |||
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stew, It sounds like you had a super trip, Sometimes the tougher ones are the ones that you remember the longest. Congratulations. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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can i have fries with the A combo? but seriously...go with the a team and if i may suggest using a north fork bullet. it will retain about 100% and i think a heavier bullet is better for the big bones of a bear http://www.northforkbullets.com/358-270.htm  This is another in our line of heavy game bullets. As with the other calibers, the 358-270 is built much stronger than the other bullets in the same caliber. Just like the other HG bullets, it is designed for elk up. It is the preferred weight for the big bears. It also is preferred for all African plains game hunting. I have no reports of anyone recovering one, yet. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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