Hi all,

We just got back from the AR European hunt and I managed to take my rifle out a couple of times over the weekend.

Got this nice buck one morning. He's just shy of medal quality but stll a wonderfull trophy that I'm thrilled with. The team turned down at least two other bucks of similar quality over the weekend, so it was good to see the trophy quality go up this year.









Rgds,
Kiri

Stunning,

does he still have both tusks?

/Chris

Very cool K- congrats...

Cheers guys,

Yes he has both tusks.

I will do a euro mount with him so it will be interesting to see how the tusks mount out.

Tim, I shot him just across the road from where you shot yours. (Just where the "guinea fowl chickens" were...) We got about 65 deer in two days including 10 trophy bucks. I think we turned down another 10-15 trophy bucks through the weekend by guys that weren't interested in accruing more trophy fees.

K

Cool animal!
Congratulations

Thats quite a nice buck indeed
Congrratulations!

Orvar

congrates mate thats a rippa

Excellent! I'd love to hunt for these critters someday.

Nice! It brings back old memories - from 1982 to 84, when I shot a few of these in the Tea Plantations. My best was 4.5 inches. They were very challenging to hunt in the Indian bush. We mostly shot them by chance when looking for Grey Jungle Fowl. Rarely we would see one from the next hill and stalk them. Always great fun, particularly to snap shoot one on the run with 12 bore no2s.

Very nice indeed. Congratulations

Some of the estates we use to hunt these on here have such a high density that it is verging on the ridiculous, hence why I organise the doe cull each year for the AR members. However it is fun to try and find a good one though in amongst them.

I can't remember what I measured him at but I think it was about 9cm.

Rgds,
K

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
Some of the estates we use to hunt these on here have such a high density that it is verging on the ridiculous, hence why I organise the doe cull each year for the AR members. However it is fun to try and find a good one though in amongst them.

Was this doe cull part of a structured deer management plan?

Of the 65 animals shoot during your AR european 2012 hunt weekend how many were does?

Give the constant reproductive cycle of muntjac in the UK, how many of those does were heavily pregnent as recommended by the best practice guides published by the likes of the BDS and DI?

Other than gender and/or antler size. What other criteria were used in the decision making process to determine whether an animal was a suitable cull animal.

Or was it a "its brown and I have the cash" decision making process for those involved?

quote:

Was this doe cull part of a structured deer management plan?

Of the 65 animals shoot during your AR european 2012 hunt weekend how many were does?

Give the constant reproductive cycle of muntjac in the UK, how many of those does were heavily pregnent as recommended by the best practice guides published by the likes of the BDS and DI?

Other than gender and/or antler size. What other criteria were used in the decision making process to determine whether an animal was a suitable cull animal.

Or was it a "its brown and I have the cash" decision making process for those involved?

Seriously?

I'm sure that other than gender and antler size, cull criteria included personality, wit and charm. Each animal was interviewed and a short meeting scheduled to determine its fate. The next day, the lucky hunter went back and found that one muntjac in the wood full of muntjac and culled it, in front of an independent UN observer and in accordance with UK Best Practice guidelines. A post mortem examination was conducted under clinical conditions in each case.

quote:

Originally posted by Boghossian:

quote:

Was this doe cull part of a structured deer management plan?

Of the 65 animals shoot during your AR european 2012 hunt weekend how many were does?

Give the constant reproductive cycle of muntjac in the UK, how many of those does were heavily pregnent as recommended by the best practice guides published by the likes of the BDS and DI?

Other than gender and/or antler size. What other criteria were used in the decision making process to determine whether an animal was a suitable cull animal.

Or was it a "its brown and I have the cash" decision making process for those involved?

Seriously?

I'm sure that other than gender and antler size, cull criteria included personality, wit and charm. Each animal was interviewed and a short meeting scheduled to determine its fate. The next day, the lucky hunter went back and found that one muntjac in the wood full of muntjac and culled it, in front of an independent UN observer and in accordance with UK Best Practice guidelines. A post mortem examination was conducted under clinical conditions in each case.

Yes, seriously.

Good management plans should contain other selection criteria. They should not just be about whether its a doe/buck, how big antlers are/aren't and be administered by those capable of making the correct choices.

For instance. How many of those involved were capable of determining whether a doe was in the late stages of pregnency. Or whether a good buck was worth keeping in the gene pool.

Sticking a group of mixed experience guys in highseats over a weekend and telling them to shoot what ever shows and their bank accounts allows. Doesn't appear to be a good management policy. But I could be wrong.

Would you recommend that policy for any other species?

That buck must be a bronze ?
certainly looks it in the pics

If it is. Its only just. Looks a bit shy on length and girth. Brow tines are a little short too.

quote:

Originally posted by Jools:

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
Some of the estates we use to hunt these on here have such a high density that it is verging on the ridiculous, hence why I organise the doe cull each year for the AR members. However it is fun to try and find a good one though in amongst them.

Was this doe cull part of a structured deer management plan?

Of the 65 animals shoot during your AR european 2012 hunt weekend how many were does?

Give the constant reproductive cycle of muntjac in the UK, how many of those does were heavily pregnent as recommended by the best practice guides published by the likes of the BDS and DI?

Other than gender and/or antler size. What other criteria were used in the decision making process to determine whether an animal was a suitable cull animal.

Or was it a "its brown and I have the cash" decision making process for those involved?

jools I have shot 100's of muntjac each year for a long time and I have yet to find anyone who can reliably tell in a muntjac doe is heavily pregnant or not.

The stalkers that tell you they can are like the ones who never miss or wound animals.

I.E LIARS

Dave

I agree.No one can be 100% certain 100% of the time But there are some who wouldn't know where to start or don't even bother trying.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Jools:

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
Some of the estates we use to hunt these on here have such a high density that it is verging on the ridiculous, hence why I organise the doe cull each year for the AR members. However it is fun to try and find a good one though in amongst them.

Was this doe cull part of a structured deer management plan?

Of the 65 animals shoot during your AR european 2012 hunt weekend how many were does?

Give the constant reproductive cycle of muntjac in the UK, how many of those does were heavily pregnent as recommended by the best practice guides published by the likes of the BDS and DI?

Other than gender and/or antler size. What other criteria were used in the decision making process to determine whether an animal was a suitable cull animal.

Or was it a "its brown and I have the cash" decision making process for those involved?

jools I have shot 100's of muntjac each year for a long time and I have yet to find anyone who can reliably tell in a muntjac doe is heavily pregnant or not.

The stalkers that tell you they can are like the ones who never miss or wound animals.

I.E LIARS

Nice buck Kiri.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Jools:

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
Some of the estates we use to hunt these on here have such a high density that it is verging on the ridiculous, hence why I organise the doe cull each year for the AR members. However it is fun to try and find a good one though in amongst them.

Was this doe cull part of a structured deer management plan?

Of the 65 animals shoot during your AR european 2012 hunt weekend how many were does?

Give the constant reproductive cycle of muntjac in the UK, how many of those does were heavily pregnent as recommended by the best practice guides published by the likes of the BDS and DI?

Other than gender and/or antler size. What other criteria were used in the decision making process to determine whether an animal was a suitable cull animal.

Or was it a "its brown and I have the cash" decision making process for those involved?

jools I have shot 100's of muntjac each year for a long time and I have yet to find anyone who can reliably tell in a muntjac doe is heavily pregnant or not.

The stalkers that tell you they can are like the ones who never miss or wound animals.

I.E LIARS

Dave

I agree.No one can be 100% certain 100% of the time But there are some who wouldn't know where to start or don't even bother trying.

Questionable motivations or ignorances posibly being the prime reasons behind such acts.

From an Estate Management perspective (not necessarily deer quality management) what is wrong with a shoot all muntjac bucks and any does where you won't be leaving behind dependent young policy?

The late Ronnie Rose answered that qustion admittedly in regards to roe But I think his conclusions are valid and might/can/should be adapted for muntjac.

But I guess the first question must be what do you consider to be the over arching objectives of a particular "estate management" policy.

In East Anglia I would say protection of crops and forestry. Encouragement from the F.C. to cull 1 deer/Ha/Annum, means that many will shoot all muntjac on sight.

They are real cool looking critters. Thanks for the pics

quote:

Originally posted by sws:
In East Anglia I would say protection of crops and forestry. Encouragement from the F.C. to cull 1 deer/Ha/Annum, means that many will shoot all muntjac on sight.

The F.C. has never had any other policy than shot on sight. For them the object of the excersise is control rather than management. From first to last they are foresters.

quote:

Originally posted by sws:
In East Anglia I would say protection of crops and forestry. Encouragement from the F.C. to cull 1 deer/Ha/Annum, means that many will shoot all muntjac on sight.

I forgot to ask. Do many in your are achieve or better the FC target of 1 deer/ha/Annum?

I don't think anyone gets close.
If you want to get the payments under the woodland management grants which paid pretty well, thats the level of culling they were suggesting.
I don't think the FC get anywhere close to it either!

It was a rather facetious question on my part. I apologise.

I would be rather suspicious if any one claimed that they had bettered it.

I don't think the FC bother, they simply assess the amount of damage and react accordingly.As and when they deem that the level of damage is unacceptable they simply slaughter everything that they can pull the trigger on. Finesse is not their strongest game.