quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I received an email from the McCallums that indicated they were losing this concession and therefore were offering these hunts. I deleted the email, but I could swear it was this area with these deals.

Not that it really matters, but it is interesting you didn't say that Aaron.

AAW - As Larry indicates, they lose 1/2 of Lukwati starting in July 2013 - not sure what that has to do with these hunts available in 2012???? This particular location, dates, and cats, are available in 2012 because the Sheik, who hunts with Danny every year, has postponed his 2012 hunt!

Butch - Come on man, we can run after buffalo - I'll try not to let one run you over, or me either for that matter!!

I heard you had a great hunt with Nixon? Congrats, and I hope you post a "hunt report" soon.

The tone of the email suggested they no longer had an interest in preserving the area for the future.

Forcing operators out of their concessions at a high frequency is surely not good for conservation.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I received an email from the McCallums that indicated they were losing this concession and therefore were offering these hunts. I deleted the email, but I could swear it was this area with these deals.

Not that it really matters, but it is interesting you didn't say that Aaron.

AAW - As Larry indicates, they lose 1/2 of Lukwati starting in July 2013 - not sure what that has to do with these hunts available in 2012???? This particular location, dates, and cats, are available in 2012 because the Sheik, who hunts with Danny every year, has postponed his 2012 hunt!

Butch - Come on man, we can run after buffalo - I'll try not to let one run you over, or me either for that matter!!

I heard you had a great hunt with Nixon? Congrats, and I hope you post a "hunt report" soon.

The tone of the email suggested they no longer had an interest in preserving the area for the future.

Forcing operators out of their concessions at a high frequency is surely not good for conservation.

"The tone of the email suggested" - hmmm?? What does that tone "sound" like over an email? Or are we just insinuating/speculating again AAW?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I received an email from the McCallums that indicated they were losing this concession and therefore were offering these hunts. I deleted the email, but I could swear it was this area with these deals.

Not that it really matters, but it is interesting you didn't say that Aaron.

AAW - As Larry indicates, they lose 1/2 of Lukwati starting in July 2013 - not sure what that has to do with these hunts available in 2012???? This particular location, dates, and cats, are available in 2012 because the Sheik, who hunts with Danny every year, has postponed his 2012 hunt!

Butch - Come on man, we can run after buffalo - I'll try not to let one run you over, or me either for that matter!!

I heard you had a great hunt with Nixon? Congrats, and I hope you post a "hunt report" soon.

The tone of the email suggested they no longer had an interest in preserving the area for the future.

Forcing operators out of their concessions at a high frequency is surely not good for conservation.

"The tone of the email suggested" - hmmm?? What does that tone "sound" like over an email? Or are we just insinuating/speculating again AAW?

Aaron:

I will paraphrase:

"Because we have lost concession XYZ in area ABC we are going to offer the following hunts..."

It was pretty clear to me losing the concession was the reason the hunts were offered; maybe someone else got the email and can post it verbatim. Or maybe you can.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I received an email from the McCallums that indicated they were losing this concession and therefore were offering these hunts. I deleted the email, but I could swear it was this area with these deals.

Not that it really matters, but it is interesting you didn't say that Aaron.

AAW - As Larry indicates, they lose 1/2 of Lukwati starting in July 2013 - not sure what that has to do with these hunts available in 2012???? This particular location, dates, and cats, are available in 2012 because the Sheik, who hunts with Danny every year, has postponed his 2012 hunt!

Butch - Come on man, we can run after buffalo - I'll try not to let one run you over, or me either for that matter!!

I heard you had a great hunt with Nixon? Congrats, and I hope you post a "hunt report" soon.

The tone of the email suggested they no longer had an interest in preserving the area for the future.

Forcing operators out of their concessions at a high frequency is surely not good for conservation.

"The tone of the email suggested" - hmmm?? What does that tone "sound" like over an email? Or are we just insinuating/speculating again AAW?

Aaron:

I will paraphrase:

"Because we have lost concession XYZ in area ABC we are going to offer the following hunts..."

It was pretty clear to me losing the concession was the reason the hunts were offered; maybe someone else got the email and can post it verbatim. Or maybe you can.

AAW - I give up, you win! The Sheik did not in fact postpone his hunt with Danny, leaving these dates/cats open in Lukwati 2012.

I have no idea how Joanna worded the e-mail you received, as I have NOT seen it? I guarantee you, Danny didn't do it himself.

Danny does in fact lose 1/2 of the Lukwati Game Reserve in July 2013 (not sure what that has to do with a Sept. 2012 hunt?) and as you have insinuated, likely he has no further care/concern for the wildlife within that particular area. Certainly anyone who knows Mr. McCallum personally, can attest to that!

Please folks, If anyone has any more questions, direct them to AAW - he obviously knows more about this than I do.

Thank you, and have a good day!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I received an email from the McCallums that indicated they were losing this concession and therefore were offering these hunts. I deleted the email, but I could swear it was this area with these deals.

Not that it really matters, but it is interesting you didn't say that Aaron.

AAW - As Larry indicates, they lose 1/2 of Lukwati starting in July 2013 - not sure what that has to do with these hunts available in 2012???? This particular location, dates, and cats, are available in 2012 because the Sheik, who hunts with Danny every year, has postponed his 2012 hunt!

Butch - Come on man, we can run after buffalo - I'll try not to let one run you over, or me either for that matter!!

I heard you had a great hunt with Nixon? Congrats, and I hope you post a "hunt report" soon.

The tone of the email suggested they no longer had an interest in preserving the area for the future.

Forcing operators out of their concessions at a high frequency is surely not good for conservation.

"The tone of the email suggested" - hmmm?? What does that tone "sound" like over an email? Or are we just insinuating/speculating again AAW?

Aaron:

I will paraphrase:

"Because we have lost concession XYZ in area ABC we are going to offer the following hunts..."

It was pretty clear to me losing the concession was the reason the hunts were offered; maybe someone else got the email and can post it verbatim. Or maybe you can.

AAW - I give up, you win! The Sheik did not in fact postpone his hunt with Danny, leaving these dates/cats open in Lukwati 2012.

I have no idea how Joanna worded the e-mail you received, as I have NOT seen it? I guarantee you, Danny didn't do it himself.

Danny does in fact lose 1/2 of the Lukwati Game Reserve in July 2013 (not sure what that has to do with a Sept. 2012 hunt?) and as you have insinuated, likely he has no further care/concern for the wildlife within that particular area. Certainly anyone who knows Mr. McCallum personally, can attest to that!

Please folks, If anyone has any more questions, direct them to AAW - he obviously knows more about this than I do.

Thank you, and have a good day!

Aaron:

You are starting to act like a bully on AR; lately it seems you are quick to belittle others who might someday be a client. I am simply citing an email I received to the best of my memory. Perhaps someone else can post it directly, or maybe the McCallums can. Or maybe I will suggest next time they post the hunt themselves on AR and save the commission. Like you said, they have a wonderful reputation, so who needs an agent?

But I suspect those who book with the McCallums are not dredging for discount hunts on AR anyway. Good luck selling the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I received an email from the McCallums that indicated they were losing this concession and therefore were offering these hunts. I deleted the email, but I could swear it was this area with these deals.

Not that it really matters, but it is interesting you didn't say that Aaron.

AAW - As Larry indicates, they lose 1/2 of Lukwati starting in July 2013 - not sure what that has to do with these hunts available in 2012???? This particular location, dates, and cats, are available in 2012 because the Sheik, who hunts with Danny every year, has postponed his 2012 hunt!

Butch - Come on man, we can run after buffalo - I'll try not to let one run you over, or me either for that matter!!

I heard you had a great hunt with Nixon? Congrats, and I hope you post a "hunt report" soon.

The tone of the email suggested they no longer had an interest in preserving the area for the future.

Forcing operators out of their concessions at a high frequency is surely not good for conservation.

"The tone of the email suggested" - hmmm?? What does that tone "sound" like over an email? Or are we just insinuating/speculating again AAW?

Aaron:

I will paraphrase:

"Because we have lost concession XYZ in area ABC we are going to offer the following hunts..."

It was pretty clear to me losing the concession was the reason the hunts were offered; maybe someone else got the email and can post it verbatim. Or maybe you can.

AAW - I give up, you win! The Sheik did not in fact postpone his hunt with Danny, leaving these dates/cats open in Lukwati 2012.

I have no idea how Joanna worded the e-mail you received, as I have NOT seen it? I guarantee you, Danny didn't do it himself.

Danny does in fact lose 1/2 of the Lukwati Game Reserve in July 2013 (not sure what that has to do with a Sept. 2012 hunt?) and as you have insinuated, likely he has no further care/concern for the wildlife within that particular area. Certainly anyone who knows Mr. McCallum personally, can attest to that!

Please folks, If anyone has any more questions, direct them to AAW - he obviously knows more about this than I do.

Thank you, and have a good day!

Aaron:

You are starting to act like a bully on AR; lately it seems you are quick to belittle others who might someday be a client. I am simply citing an email I received to the best of my memory. Perhaps someone else can post it directly, or maybe the McCallums can. Or maybe I will suggest next time they post the hunt themselves on AR and save the commission. Like you said, they have a wonderful reputation, so who needs an agent?

But I suspect those who book with the McCallums are not dredging for discount hunts on AR anyway. Good luck selling the hunt.

AAW - Sorry if you feel I was "bullying" you, that was not my intention. I tried several times to answer your questions, based on the PRIVATE messages I exchanged with Joanna. They didn't seem to satisfy your inquiries, even though I explained the facts from the get-go, in my OP? Perhaps you received a mass e-mail that I obviously do not/would not get, with standard language about hunts still available, I don't know? But I do know the Sheik cancelled his 2x2 - 21 day hunt, thus opening 2 lion/leopard quota, plus buffalo in Lukwati South. Something I tried to explain on several occasions.

If you look back through this thread, you'll see numerous complaints about the prices, one claim that the OP doesn't even belong on this forum ( ) another claiming we couldn't charge a "surcharge" on the lion/leopard, and your insinuation that I was leaving out specific info (that has nothing to do with this particular offer, unless we were selling this hunt for 2013) as well as speculating that perhaps Danny no longer has the intention to care for the area/game? All of which were completely wrong, had nothing to do with, or didn't provide any productive input, to the hunt on offer.

Now, don't get me wrong. If I, or anyone else on this forum offer something illegal, unethical, seriously questionable, etc, then I have no problem with being questioned, called out, or taken to task. Even though I am not perfect, I doubt that will happen - as I try to be very thorough before offering a hunt for sale.

Bottom line, its a public forum and you are FREE to do as you wish. But, has it ever occured to some that perhaps you could be missing out on some other good hunting "deals/opportunities", simply because other guys are hesitant to post hunts they have to offer, because they don't wish to deal with the un-necessary comments/opinions from the peanut gallery?

By the way, the hunt's still for sale if you would like to buy it?


Sincerely,

Aaron,

Like I said, I was simply posting what I had seen regarding this operation. Since I deleted the email, I could not post it verbatim.

I honestly wasn't even insinuating anything unethical, let alone illegal. In fact, the PH I hunted with in Jan (one of McCallum's PHs) expressed to me that constant churning of hunting areas will make it difficult for high end operators to manage for quality.

Having conducted my last four African hunts in Tanz, I think I am ready to try something else.

It seems a logical disincentive to have half of one's area taken away after many years of improving an area. Quite a few operators had half of their areas taken away in 2013. Prime areas at that.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It seems a logical disincentive to have half of one's are taken away after many years of improving an area. Quite a few operators had half of their areas taken away in 2013. Prime areas at that.

Larry - Certainly a point worth mentioning for sure!

However, keep in mind a couple of important facts that pertain to this issue.

First, not that it makes it right/better, but some operators "lost" part of their areas, simply because the areas were further cut in HALF. Certainly not a positive, but a way for the TZ wildlife dept to gain additional revenue from lease fees, etc.

Second, and in the case of Danny losing half of Lukwati, he frankly was screwed by one of his own, and not necessarily the TZ wildlife dept. Yes, the blocks, all the blocks, were up for a total/complete re-allocation process. Many of the big name guys like Danny, TGT, Robin Hurt, Pasanisi, etc, etc, etc, - all agreed to abide by an un-written rule in which they would respect and honor eachothers current blocks, and NOT apply for them, unless for some reason, one of them agreed he was NOT gonna apply for that particular block/could not apply for that particular block, etc. In other words, conduct themselves with respect and honor!

Now, certainly that did stop others from applying in some cases, and in Danny's case - a long-time friend, and someone (Michel Mantheakias) who calls Danny a mentor, and claims to respect Danny as a "mozai" (spelling on that could be way off) slithered through the grass, behind Danny's back, and bit him on the ass!! So yes, the process was bad from its inception, but Danny can also thank his "friend", for doing what nobody thought he would have done, especially to Danny.

I had not heard that but it does not surprise me based upon other things I have heard.

I really fear that 2013 will bring the decimation of wildlife in these areas. I am willing to bet that a whole bunch of lions will be shot that would not otherwise have been shot by the former operators. I will also bet there will be no problem exporting these lions.

I have already been approached by some of these operators getting the new areas in 2013 with prices FAR below current prices.

It is going to be interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have already been approached by some of these operators getting the new areas in 2013 with prices FAR below current prices.

It is going to be interesting.

+1

Jeff

Thanks God I don't sell my products on AR.

My clients decide to buy or not my bulls, and maybe from time to time they ask about some payments options but nothing more...

L

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It seems a logical disincentive to have half of one's are taken away after many years of improving an area. Quite a few operators had half of their areas taken away in 2013. Prime areas at that.

Larry - Certainly a point worth mentioning for sure!

However, keep in mind a couple of important facts that pertain to this issue.

First, not that it makes it right/better, but some operators "lost" part of their areas, simply because the areas were further cut in HALF. Certainly not a positive, but a way for the TZ wildlife dept to gain additional revenue from lease fees, etc.

Second, and in the case of Danny losing half of Lukwati, he frankly was screwed by one of his own, and not necessarily the TZ wildlife dept. Yes, the blocks, all the blocks, were up for a total/complete re-allocation process. Many of the big name guys like Danny, TGT, Robin Hurt, Pasanisi, etc, etc, etc, - all agreed to abide by an un-written rule in which they would respect and honor eachothers current blocks, and NOT apply for them, unless for some reason, one of them agreed he was NOT gonna apply for that particular block/could not apply for that particular block, etc. In other words, conduct themselves with respect and honor!

Now, certainly that did stop others from applying in some cases, and in Danny's case - a long-time friend, and someone (Michel Mantheakias) who calls Danny a mentor, and claims to respect Danny as a "mozai" (spelling on that could be way off) slithered through the grass, behind Danny's back, and bit him on the ass!! So yes, the process was bad from its inception, but Danny can also thank his "friend", for doing what nobody thought he would have done, especially to Danny.

Aaron... That's BAD STUFF right there!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It seems a logical disincentive to have half of one's area taken away after many years of improving an area. Quite a few operators had half of their areas taken away in 2013. Prime areas at that.

That was exactly the point I was making in my initial post.

sounds like Michel and Miombo Safaris have a bit of an ethics problem. oh well, all's fair in love,war and apparently THE SAFARI BUSINESS!next year will be an interesting one in Tz. concerning pricing/ the safari business in general.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It seems a logical disincentive to have half of one's are taken away after many years of improving an area. Quite a few operators had half of their areas taken away in 2013. Prime areas at that.

Larry - Certainly a point worth mentioning for sure!

However, keep in mind a couple of important facts that pertain to this issue.

First, not that it makes it right/better, but some operators "lost" part of their areas, simply because the areas were further cut in HALF. Certainly not a positive, but a way for the TZ wildlife dept to gain additional revenue from lease fees, etc.

Second, and in the case of Danny losing half of Lukwati, he frankly was screwed by one of his own, and not necessarily the TZ wildlife dept. Yes, the blocks, all the blocks, were up for a total/complete re-allocation process. Many of the big name guys like Danny, TGT, Robin Hurt, Pasanisi, etc, etc, etc, - all agreed to abide by an un-written rule in which they would respect and honor eachothers current blocks, and NOT apply for them, unless for some reason, one of them agreed he was NOT gonna apply for that particular block/could not apply for that particular block, etc. In other words, conduct themselves with respect and honor!

Now, certainly that did stop others from applying in some cases, and in Danny's case - a long-time friend, and someone (Michel Mantheakias) who calls Danny a mentor, and claims to respect Danny as a "mozai" (spelling on that could be way off) slithered through the grass, behind Danny's back, and bit him on the ass!! So yes, the process was bad from its inception, but Danny can also thank his "friend", for doing what nobody thought he would have done, especially to Danny.

There are 2 sides to every story. I doubt you will hear MM's here. Danny McCallum would deal with this privately I am sure. This is/was not his first defection.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
sounds like Michel and Miombo Safaris have a bit of an ethics problem. oh well, all's fair in love,war and apparently THE SAFARI BUSINESS!next year will be an interesting one in Tz. concerning pricing/ the safari business in general.

jdollar - Just to be clear, Michel is no longer associated with Miombo Safaris. Harpreet bought Miombo, and Michel does not work for him/Miombo.

and the administrative review process is not over so blocks that have changed hands can/will still change hands some more........... unfortunately, the decision of the review is about 4 months overdue.....

I'll be suprised if Danny does not operate the entire Lukwati South next season

I hate to see the companies lose their areas that have worked hard to develop their areas and increase wildlife populations. I really fear some of these areas will be wiped out in short order.

Hopefully, Danny will prevail.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
and the administrative review process is not over so blocks that have changed hands can/will still change hands some more........... unfortunately, the decision of the review is about 4 months overdue.....

I'll be suprised if Danny does not operate the entire Lukwati South next season

Bwana - I hope you're right my friend, I really do!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I hate to see the companies lose their areas that have worked hard to develop their areas and increase wildlife populations. I really fear some of these areas will be wiped out in short order.

Hopefully, Danny will prevail.

I will take the under on that. I heard an unsustantiated rumor that Zahir Mulla has reared his ugly head again. Hope this is false.

Jeff

Jeff:

I really hope that is not happening. He was a bad guy. No ethics at all.

All this over Aaron offering a hunt for sale?
This is better than day-time soap operas or reality television!
Cal

Aaron, all I want is a hippo, so ... Am I reading this right? You want $80,000 for a Hippo hunt? You can't be serious?

Shame on you Aaron, shame on you.

Will you be my guide?

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Aaron, all I want is a hippo, so ... Am I reading this right? You want $80,000 for a Hippo hunt? You can't be serious?

Shame on you Aaron, shame on you.

Will you be my guide?

Wendell - I reserve the "right" to refuse service to anyone. Consider yourself "refused"!

Let's look at the issue of awarding concessions from the Tanzanian Game Dept. point of view. They need to maximize the amount of money coming in to fund their management and enforcement programs. To do this they put up the concessions for tender or awarding them to the highest bidder. Many of the current concession holders have agreed among themselves to not bid on some others current concessions. Why? To reduce the amount it will take to win the bid and increase the chance the current holder will keep the concession. I.E. reduce competition. This runs counter to what the Game Dept. is trying to do. So the Game dept. splits the concession to increase generation of revenue. What the current holders are doing is similar to what we in the US call price fixing.

Anyone willing to bet that I won't get flamed on this?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Let's look at the issue of awarding concessions from the Tanzanian Game Dept. point of view. They need to maximize the amount of money coming in to fund their management and enforcement programs. To do this they put up the concessions for tender or awarding them to the highest bidder. Many of the current concession holders have agreed among themselves to not bid on some others current concessions. Why? To reduce the amount it will take to win the bid and increase the chance the current holder will keep the concession. I.E. reduce competition. This runs counter to what the Game Dept. is trying to do. So the Game dept. splits the concession to increase generation of revenue. What the current holders are doing is similar to what we in the US call price fixing.

Anyone willing to bet that I won't get flamed on this?

465H&H

Concessions in TZ are not auctioned - they now (2013)come in 5 different categories, each with a fixed annual "rent" - validity of lease: 5 years.
Same applies to game quota: payable when "harvested" or shot (killed/wounded & lost).
Outfitter bound by contract to submit at end of season no less than 40% of total value of the allocated quota.

quote:

So the Game dept. splits the concession to increase generation of revenue.

Yes, this has been done in the past as well to the detriment of the concession and the wildlife populating the area as the quota was not halved as was the concession.

The Game Dept. may have indeed earned double the revenue on block fees but in next to no time lost revenue on game not shot due to overkill.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Let's look at the issue of awarding concessions from the Tanzanian Game Dept. point of view. They need to maximize the amount of money coming in to fund their management and enforcement programs. To do this they put up the concessions for tender or awarding them to the highest bidder. Many of the current concession holders have agreed among themselves to not bid on some others current concessions. Why? To reduce the amount it will take to win the bid and increase the chance the current holder will keep the concession. I.E. reduce competition. This runs counter to what the Game Dept. is trying to do. So the Game dept. splits the concession to increase generation of revenue. What the current holders are doing is similar to what we in the US call price fixing.

Anyone willing to bet that I won't get flamed on this?

465H&H

Concessions in TZ are not auctioned - they now (2013)come in 5 different categories, each with a fixed annual "rent" - validity of lease: 5 years.
Same applies to game quota: payable when "harvested" or shot (killed/wounded & lost).
Outfitter bound by contract to submit at end of season no less than 40% of total value of the allocated quota.

Based on that information, I have deleted my post.

465H&H

The aim of Gov was to :
a) increase revenue;
b) Facilitate the introduction of more indigenous players in the sector;

Noble reasons but in practice both have failed miserably with huge harm to the industry as a whole! The market is cautious abouty booking TZ for the next few years and this in itself will mean Gov will generate less revenue.

The categorization of blocks with their fee structure means that overall, block fee collection will possibly be lower than the current system whereby all blocks have the same rent fee - besides the fact that more than a couple dozen blocks remain unallocated for 2013 onwards! So the sub-division proved pointless other than to satisfy the illogical political directive of Parliament.

Many new indigenous players will fail miserably at their first attempt, will fail to pay the minimum required Gov fees causing further revenue loss. All this was predicted but warning went unheard on the basis that Parliaments' decision was final and had to be followed. Now those same MPs that voted for this should be held accountable for the ensuing loss of revenue, instability of the industry and possible loss of market share that will take years to address.

TIA indeed.

quote:

The aim of Gov was to :
a) increase revenue;
b) Facilitate the introduction of more indigenous players in the sector;

Noble reasons but in practice both have failed miserably with huge harm to the industry as a whole! The market is cautious abouty booking TZ for the next few years and this in itself will mean Gov will generate less revenue.

Well said

I agree with BM totally.

Many of the indigenous operators do not have the finances to operate properly. I predict that they will lower the prices substantially. I have already been offered 2013 hunts in PRIME blocks at HALF the price of the current operator. I guarantee that as soon as cash gets tight they will cut prices even further.

They are going to wreck these areas that so much hard work has gone into. It is sad.

I would be extremely concerned about booking in TZ beyond this year. I surely would not give these guys money that far ahead of time.

Larry - You've said that several times on this thread, and told me that in private too. Please tell us, who, what, where, are making these offers?

Obviously I know you well, and certainly believe you, but I'm curious as to the facts?

I certainly wouldn't be concerned about booking a TZ hunt in the future, just do as always. Book it to a good area, with a good operator, and use a good agent if you are unsure about the prior!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Larry - You've said that several times on this thread, and told me that in private too. Please tell us, who, what, where, are making these offers?

Obviously I know you well, and certainly believe you, but I'm curious as to the facts?

I certainly wouldn't be concerned about booking a TZ hunt in the future, just do as always. Book it to a good area, with a good operator, and use a good agent if you are unsure about the prior!

Aaron,
Larry's 100% correct. They are out there now and I expect them, as do others, to decay further. The season has not even started as yet and there are extreme discounts. What will it be like in August and September?

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Larry - You've said that several times on this thread, and told me that in private too. Please tell us, who, what, where, are making these offers?

Obviously I know you well, and certainly believe you, but I'm curious as to the facts?

I certainly wouldn't be concerned about booking a TZ hunt in the future, just do as always. Book it to a good area, with a good operator, and use a good agent if you are unsure about the prior!

Aaron,
Larry's 100% correct. They are out there now and I expect them, as do others, to decay further. The season has not even started as yet and there are extreme discounts. What will it be like in August and September?

Steve - I'm a bit confused here. Larry's referring to July 2013 - March 31, 2014, with the NEW operators, in the NEW blocks they have required.

Are you referring to 2012/2013 hunts, as they would all be with the same/current operators?

Aaron,
Sorry, that was a bit of a jump, yes. But my (our) point is BOTH...heavy discounts for this the 2012-13 season being offered now and deals being pre-offered for the next hunting season. The same operator now and in his new GMA next hunting season 2013-14

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Aaron,
Sorry, that was a bit of a jump, yes. But my (our) point is BOTH...heavy discounts for this the 2012-13 season being offered now and deals being pre-offered for the next hunting season. The same operator now and in his new GMA next hunting season 2013-14

Ok, gotcha!

Ya, I know some of the options/offers that are available for 2012/2013, and some are pretty good too. But that's a reflection of TZ prices, some of the lingering economy issues, and hunters who are scared/unsure of the 6 yr old law for lion. None of the current year's offers/specials have anything to do with area change-overs, etc - obviously.

Fact is, and I agree with you guys - that TZ as a whole needs to really do something about the pricing issues, at least those that they can control. Block rental fees/trophy fees/concession fees, etc. The problem going forward will have several layers, of which, some of that has been discussed by Bwanamich in his previous posts on this thread. Additionally, can you imagine trying to explain logically to the TZ officials, why they must reduce fees (meaning reduce money in their pockets too) to help make hunting opportunities more affordable? That's exactly like trying to convince local, state, and federal employees in this country - that taking pay cuts like the rest of the private sector has over the past 3 yrs, is a mandatory issue, to help reduce costs/spending, etc. They can't even understand logic, must less listen to it!

But, also keep in mind - some of the operating costs in TZ are very high. Higher than most places I have seen/been involved with. That's neither here/nor there, just a fact, regardless of who's operating the area.

Fact is though, alot of very good blocks have been acquired, were retained by some excellent operators, period! Yes of course I'm concerned, Bwanamich who knows more than ALL of us combined, even mentions some of his concerns. But, on the flip side - I am very surprised at all of the pessimistic opinions already expressed? I know a bunch of guys, who have some excellent areas, who will take good care of them, and hopefully the hunting will be fairly good - well into the future. I choose to focus on the positives, fight hard against the negatives, and do my best to lobby dilligently for the protection of the African Lion in the process. One thing I am certain of is this, the longevity of Tanzania's game, the lion, and all of Tanzania's hunting operators as a whole - is 100% dependent on ALL of us - the hunter. I for one will support them, and do my best to provide my clients the opportunity to hunt TZ, provide the game with the support it deserves, and the hunting operators - they support they need. And I sincerely hope those of you that can, be it financially/physically, will join me in that support - its up to you!!

Man, besides guys I forgot ALL about my mistake I made in the OP!! The prices listed, INCLUDE the expensive RT charter fees that everyone hates some much! So, who's coming to TZ with me??????

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It seems a logical disincentive to have half of one's are taken away after many years of improving an area. Quite a few operators had half of their areas taken away in 2013. Prime areas at that.

Larry - Certainly a point worth mentioning for sure!

However, keep in mind a couple of important facts that pertain to this issue.

First, not that it makes it right/better, but some operators "lost" part of their areas, simply because the areas were further cut in HALF. Certainly not a positive, but a way for the TZ wildlife dept to gain additional revenue from lease fees, etc.

Second, and in the case of Danny losing half of Lukwati, he frankly was screwed by one of his own, and not necessarily the TZ wildlife dept. Yes, the blocks, all the blocks, were up for a total/complete re-allocation process. Many of the big name guys like Danny, TGT, Robin Hurt, Pasanisi, etc, etc, etc, - all agreed to abide by an un-written rule in which they would respect and honor eachothers current blocks, and NOT apply for them, unless for some reason, one of them agreed he was NOT gonna apply for that particular block/could not apply for that particular block, etc. In other words, conduct themselves with respect and honor!

Now, certainly that did stop others from applying in some cases, and in Danny's case - a long-time friend, and someone (Michel Mantheakias) who calls Danny a mentor, and claims to respect Danny as a "mozai" (spelling on that could be way off) slithered through the grass, behind Danny's back, and bit him on the ass!! So yes, the process was bad from its inception, but Danny can also thank his "friend", for doing what nobody thought he would have done, especially to Danny.

I went to Michel booth looking for someone a couple of years ago. My wife was with me. Michel pulled us in and began his spill. As we left my wife who does not hunt looks at me and says "he is full of crap you are not hunting with him are you" I felt like I needed a shower after speaking to him. No suprised one bit about what he did to Danny.