quote:

Originally posted by 450:
To become a member of Zimbabwes professional hunters and Guides association you have to sign a code of conduct that states you are not to solicit for tips of any kind. Clients are encouraged to report any such behaviour to the association and the offending member will be dealt with accordingly.

That is all and good.

But any organization with a large number of members is going to attract some undesirables.

We have seen a number of crooked Zimbabwe professional hunters, who should ashamed of themselves.

All one has to do is read some of the hunt reports, to see who to avoid.

100% agree with you Saeed!!

A friend told me yesterday he had dinner in New York.

He left a 15% tip, and his server asked if he was not happy with the service!!!??

If it was me I would have taken the tip back!

quote:

Originally posted by 450:
To become a member of Zimbabwes professional hunters and Guides association you have to sign a code of conduct that states you are not to solicit for tips of any kind. Clients are encouraged to report any such behaviour to the association and the offending member will be dealt with accordingly.

I wish I’d known that before.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
A friend told me yesterday he had dinner in New York.

He left a 15% tip, and his server asked if he was not happy with the service!!!??

If it was me I would have taken the tip back!

First I would have been shocked and secondly I might have said "Now I am unhappy with the service".

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 450:
To become a member of Zimbabwes professional hunters and Guides association you have to sign a code of conduct that states you are not to solicit for tips of any kind. Clients are encouraged to report any such behaviour to the association and the offending member will be dealt with accordingly.

That's good to know. I wished that I'd known that years ago. I had one Zimbabwean PH that put the hard sell on tips to a buddy of mine while we were hunting in Zimbabwe together. He came to me all upset about it, and I told him that I was going to tip the PH just what I felt like tipping him in spite of that. And, that's exactly what I did.

By the way, I agree with Mark and Saeed both. First, I would have told him that I was now unhappy with the service, and second, I would have taken the entire tip back.

Saeed, when I'm asked about tipping, I advise gratuities are optional. Sometimes I'm pressed to say more to which I try to explain that tips are something that each person should decide upon based on the experience, staff, accommodations, food etc. If they failed to take their quarry but had a great time and make good friends, let their conscious be their guide. Many hunters have told me they felt the cost of the hunt should cover any tips, thus they do not leave one. I tip those who give me their best effort.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Frankly, I am getting fed up with offers being posted where a tip is mentioned that it is not included.

A tip is up to the hunter to give if he feels like.

He does not need to be reminded of it.

Any hunt offer posted here where a tip or gratuity is mention as part of the offer will be deleted.

Quite right.

For the sake of discussion let's play the "devil's advocate":

Restaurants and hotels fall under the hospitality business where tipping/gratuities are an accepted part of the trade and nobody really seems to reject.

Some of these businesses, if not most, also charge a service and/or table cover levy excluding the tip which is optional to the customer who again in most cases, does not object to paying.

The hunting industry is also considered to be part of the hospitality business as it basically includes everything that one would get in a restaurant/hotel and more, i.e. the shooting part.

Seeing therefore that the ominous word "tip" is not welcomed when it comes to a hunt related service, would it be more acceptable/fair if the outfitter were to apply the standard 15% Service Charge to his bill, possibly with an added caption that "tipping is not required"?

I recall being told of one renown outfitter having done just that as the vast majority of his clientele came from a European country where tipping was not part of their custom, much like Australia and NZ.

You also have to remember with less and less cash being used i think tips will have to be incorporated into the package price and paid by transfer.

On this subject all I have to say is that NEARLY EVERY client asks me if a tip is included or what I suggest that they should tip. That is why I like to mention in my offers that the tip is extra or not included so they know the deal upfront. I always like to be upfront with all my clients.

I do not like it when an outfitter says they should be tipped X or Y regardless of the outcome of the hunt.

I also feel that tipping expectations in some places has become out of control!


Arjun Reddy
Hunters Networks LLC
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: +1 845 259 3628

Arjun,

Spot on! I don't think I've ever had a first time safari client that didn't inquire about tips. Most hunters want to know what is customary.

Mark

The client is at liberty to ask any questions relating to his proposed hunt.

Isn't a tip supposed to be at the client's discretion?

Mentioning it, in the same sentence as "flights and hotel accommodation before or after the hunt" makes it sound like a necessity.

Which is wrong.

A client has to fly over.

He has to stay in a hotel if he wishes to.

But he certainly does not have to pay a tip.

I have seen lists published by some outfitters where they actually ask for specific amounts for specific individuals employed by them.

Like skinner so much, tracker so much, waiter so much, cook so much.

And the suggestion for the professional hunter really takes the cake.

Some were asking for $150 per day!!

ASKING for a tip is nothing short of BEGGING.

And it should be stopped.

I do not know anyone who hunts and does not leave a tip.

At HIS description.

If some wish to add it to their price, that is their choice.

Hopefully they will price themselves out of business.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
A friend told me yesterday he had dinner in New York.

He left a 15% tip, and his server asked if he was not happy with the service!!!??

If it was me I would have taken the tip back!

Being an European we are not used to the tipping which you experience in the USA and in the hunting industry. The tipping is creating a lot of discussion amongst us hunters and I have experienced some strange situations. One sutation often comes to my mind and that took also place in New York in 2007. I was in New York for a couple of meetings and a dinner with some potential business partner. WE agrred on having dinner at a restaurant that these guys know of. Probably a nice restaurant as the the butler wore a tuxedo. Anyway, I was a bit early and there was a big bar there, I sat down and asked for a glass of white wine which according to the list cost 9 dollars. I gave the bartender a 20 note, got my wine, but no change. I sat for a couple of miniutes and watched the bartender working. After a couple more minutes I asked the bartender to come over and asked him about my change. I looked at me for some long seconds and then asked; which country are you from. Norway I said. He looked at me again for some seconds, turned again, fetched 11 dollars and " slammed " it in the bardisk in front of me. He did not look in my direction again.

I was stunned about the behaviour, but probably more of the bartenders thinking. Did he think that serving a glass of Chardonney costing 9 dollars should allow him a 11 dollar tip ? A 122 % tip .. Beats me...

I understand that tipping 25-30% is not uncommon in the US. It is almost obligatory and they expect it. We Europeans have a problem with that, but 122% take the cake as we say it ..


Morten

quote:

I understand that tipping 25-30% is not uncommon in the US

Utterly, ridiculously, STUPID!

Imagine one trying to find a hunt that fits his budget, and then being asked to fork 30% more over the agreed price!

quote:

Imagine one trying to find a hunt that fits his budget, and then being asked to fork 30% more over the agreed price!

It can be done and is being done by some outfitters by subsidizing tips and other expenses embedded in hiked trophy fees other than those the client is unaware of unless a surcharge shows in the price list.

The more unscrupulous ones have been known to pocket part/all of the assigned tip amount from the client.

The current hunt offers are only permitted to be advertised without mentioning tips or gratuities which could pose an uncomfortable situation at the end of the hunt and can be misleading for the client when it comes to the thorny subject of "to tip or not to tip".

quote:

The current hunt offers are only permitted to be advertised without mentioning tips or gratuities which could pose an uncomfortable situation at the end of the hunt and can be misleading for the client when it comes to the thorny subject of "to tip or not to tip".

It shouldnot.

If the client wishes toleave a tip, that is his choice.

Price does not Include
• Trophy fees
• Stay and meals outside camp
• Preparation, documentation and cost of packing of trophies €1,000
• Transfer to camp and return from Yaounde plane or road
• Shipment home of trophies
• Tips and gratuities to PH and staff – 1,000 euros if main species taken
• Hunting licence €1,200. A second license will be required if taking more than 2 class A species. Each licence allows 2 species from A and 4 from B/C group.
• Gun rental 375 H&H + 12 bore €250 + ammunition

This offer escaped scrutiny.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Price does not Include
• Trophy fees
• Stay and meals outside camp
• Preparation, documentation and cost of packing of trophies €1,000
• Transfer to camp and return from Yaounde plane or road
• Shipment home of trophies
• Tips and gratuities to PH and staff – 1,000 euros if main species taken
• Hunting licence €1,200. A second license will be required if taking more than 2 class A species. Each licence allows 2 species from A and 4 from B/C group.
• Gun rental 375 H&H + 12 bore €250 + ammunition

This offer escaped scrutiny.

Where is it?

We cannot look at every offer.

Link please.

We live 30 miles from town, and because of covid we haven't eaten out in a sit down resteraunt in a long time.

The local BBQ place (Rudy's a chain) is decent, and I pick up BBQ there about once or twice a month.

They don't have tips, don't accept tips and it is not a thing.

Good quality food, and their prices are the same or lower than anyone else.

Every other little diner around wants you to tip 20-40%. It is on their buttons, you have to go to the next screen to find the 5% button or no tip button.

Morten,

The bartender you described is an asshole and pinned you as a rube that he could swindle. I bet you're not the only one he'd done that to. Even in the most expensive places here a dollar or two would have been plenty for a tip if you chose to leave one.

Seth,

I've not seen a 40% tip on those bill paying machines and anything over 20% to my mind is ridiculous for a food tip. If you're in a place where you pay through the machine and the waitress is not handling the bill that's one part of service that your not getting so in my mind the tip goes down proportionately.

Mark

Mark up until a week ago I had not seen a waitress since March.

We finally have sit down dining in Southern New Mexico.

Most of the places doing this (the big tips) are drive throughs or regular diners that you have to get take away.

The tipping thing is out of control. The sheer number of people being tipped on safari has gotten to insane . I have experienced the stone sheep tipping issues . I thought that was insane .

I get the problem with some offers . Personally, I don’t see a simple statement that tips are not included as a problem. The rules are what the rules are. I 100% respect that.

I have just deleted a hunt offer, because they have asked for gratuities.

Tips are between the client and whoever he hunts with, it is a private matter what he wants to tip, how much or not.

Adding it in the offer is not acceptable on hunts offered on AR.

I honestly wish people would read what I have posted at the head of this forum.

Too many posters apparently are illiterate……

A couple of gents here suggested tips be included in the hunt price. I have discussed this with PHs and all state if the tip is included in the hunt price then taxes come into the picture.

Recently I have enjoyed hunting with the owners of the company and they don't beg for tips. I always tip well for the staff: they work hard they don't ask for tips. They seem to truly appreciate teh gift.

My worst experience was a PH in Zim. He not only brought up the subject of tips during the hunt daily but even before the hunt! "Can you bring me (fill in the blank) from the States and deduct it from my tip?" He does this to other clients as well. I have shared my hunt journal with others when contacted about a hunt recommendation. At least a half dozen did not book with him.

A local gent did some favors to me and I bought him a .300 RUM rifle. It was unexpected and I could see the appreciation and emotion in his eyes. Then, when he did more work for me, he began asking for other firearms. When it is not a gift, it is not fun. I immediately stopped the practice.

I have no problems with giving a tip.

When it is warranted.

I have refused to pay "service" charges in 5 star hotels, because their services were not good enough.

One restaurant manager got a bit upset, and said it was "normal" to pay it.

I still refused, and told him he is at liberty to call the hotel manager if he wished, because as far as I was concerned he should be given the bloody boot for his attitude!

The duty manager was called, and I asked him if he would accept the atrocious service we had.

He agreed that their service was not up to "their usual high standards".

He also offered to reduce our bill, which I refused to accept.

Telling him he will never see me in that hotel again.

We went there a few years later, and what a change that was.

Service was excellent, and I was happy to pay their service charge.

quote:

A local gent did some favors to me and I bought him a .300 RUM rifle. It was unexpected and I could see the appreciation and emotion in his eyes. Then, when he did more work for me, he began asking for other firearms. When it is not a gift, it is not fun. I immediately stopped the practice.

Some people appreciate gifts and understand the sprit they are given.

Far more think they should be given more.

I was giving a fellow firewood to cut for free.

Due to oak wilt I had a lot of dead standing trees.

He started to complain about the trees I told him to cut.

He said the live standing ones make better wood.

I told him the price that a good solid log brought.

And if he wanted to pay me that price he could cut them.

He got all huffy and puffy and said he would not be cutting any more firewood with me.

He did not care that it was my land my trees and that I paid property taxes.

He also wanted me to use my truck to haul his wood to his house.

Needless to say he has not been back.

It all boils down to class and how one was brought up.

Give someone a small token gift, and he never forgets it.

Give another one a gift, and it becomes what he expects every time he sees you!

Modern day entitlement.

Some of my hunts, tipping hasn't come up at all. Sometimes it's 'lightly' mentioned. Sometimes it's downright irritating.

On my Botswana safari, I happened to ask the PH what he pays people to work on his farm. Depending on how skilled their job is, his answer was $200-350 a month.

At the end of the safari, a "Tip Sheet" was presented to me by the outfitter, with recommendations. In several cases, they are asking more in tips FOR A TEN DAY HUNT, than an individual makes in a month. This is ridiculous.


Took my daughter to Dave Davenport's Leopards Valley Safaris this year. Nobody ever mentioned tips. I ultimately left more than I was planning, partly because they worked hard and partly because they didn't mention tips.

Funny enough offers stopped asking for tips for a while.

Now they are back asking for them in their offers.

And I delete them.

If outfitters cannot read what is at the top of this forum, may be they should go with their unwanted offers elsewhere!

I found this thread both interesting and amusing. I read through it and became reminded of a situation that I found revolting...

I remember my first safari in Botswana. I had never been on a hunt where tipping was as big of a question mark as this one. My PH went above and beyond and really impressed me. I gave him $1000, which to me was quite a lot of money at the time. I felt good about it and I continued to tip generously with many follow up hunts there and abroad.

Fast forward a few years to a Bezoar Ibex hunt in Turkey. The guides were totally awesome. They worked their tails off, enjoyed the hunting, and as usual when I am hunting with guides we became fast friends. One ex-military hero in particular and I became best buds, and I knew that he liked a particular high end item of clothing that I wore during the hunt. At the end of the hunt I gave them all something and he got a bonus gift of the clothing item from me. The "hunt master" as I will call him, immediately took it away from him and proclaimed that he was going to be the owner of the item himself! I was furious, and it's a wonder that I didn't get to see the inside of a Turkish jail cell over that selfish act by the hunt boss. Needless to say, I did not ever give him another chance to book me again.

quote:

The "hunt master" as I will call him, immediately took it away from him and proclaimed that he was going to be the owner of the item himself! I was furious, and it's a wonder that I didn't get to see the inside of a Turkish jail cell over that selfish act by the hunt boss. Needless to say, I did not ever give him another chance to book me again.

Thus, the reason for giving tips and other items directly to each individual. I know of African PHs that want you to give them the entire tip pool and they claim that they will distribute it. I never followed that advice. I always had a separate tip envelope for each individual, if I felt so inclined to tip anyone or everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:

quote:

The "hunt master" as I will call him, immediately took it away from him and proclaimed that he was going to be the owner of the item himself! I was furious, and it's a wonder that I didn't get to see the inside of a Turkish jail cell over that selfish act by the hunt boss. Needless to say, I did not ever give him another chance to book me again.

Thus, the reason for giving tips and other items directly to each individual. I know of African PHs that want you to give them the entire tip pool and they claim that they will distribute it. I never followed that advice. I always had a separate tip envelope for each individual, if I felt so inclined to tip anyone or everyone.

This is very sad.

Once I was asked to give tips directly to individuals, I refused.

I give the tips to the PH.

It is his staff, and many we do not come into contact with during our hunt.

In all the camps we have been to, everyone seems to look forward to our visit, and that tells me the PH does pay them the tips I leave.

Practically all of them are the same individuals year after year.

Which is great.